Why being Gay IS a Natural thing

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

Originally posted by MrPlow

But I'm tired of being called a conservative bigot just because I'm not a liberal marching the streets with "PRO GAY" signs, fighting for their right to marriage

I'm just going to go ahead and throw it out there.....you've never been called a bigot for not "marching the streets with "PRO GAY" signs, fighting for their right to marriage"

I've been called a bigot for saying "Well... I don't support gay marriage, I'd never be gay. Its against my beliefs. But I don't care what they do, its their life."

The subject is too touchy.

edit on 29-6-2013 by XxNightAngelusxX because: typo

So then you will redact your statement that you've been called a bigot for not marching in the streets?

Then why did HIV/AIDS start in the homosexual community if it's a natural act? Disease and drug abuse is higher among gays than straights, not to mention domestic violence.

Originally posted by CyberneticProphet
Then why did HIV/AIDS start in the homosexual community if it's a natural act? Disease and drug abuse is higher among gays than straights, not to mention domestic violence.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


I'm going to have to stop you there. I was with you, 50% of the way. I'm not 100% FOR gay marriage etc. I'm not against it though... but i do have my issues with it. - So on that note, i'm with you.

But when you say you'd "never be gay" because it's against your beliefs shocked me! So you're saying that if it wasn't against your beliefs you could somehow switch to being gay if you wanted to? Sorry, please clarify but it seems like you think sexuality is a switch, which you can choose what sexuality to turn on or off?

reply to post by Djayed


Djayed. Much of what you've written about and referenced is only theory - conjecture - a hypothesis for why homosexuality exists in nature, on evolutionary grounds.

An interesting and fairly thorough analysis of all the latest information - psychological theories, neuroscience, evolutionary theories - is Simon Levays "Straight, Gay and the Reason Why". I think you'd enjoy it.

In regards to homosexuality in nature, the only animal which engages exclusively in homosexual activity are rams. 10% of rams are said to prefer same sex partners. On the other hand, the majority of other animals engage in homosexual relations out of desperation: for example, if there are no more female partners available to mate with, male animals will pair with other male animals (and likewise females with other females). This is the typical scenario behind most animal homosexuality.

This thread makes a moral claim without discussing why or how that claim could be elucidated. In my mind, there is no ABSOLUTE moral evidence for or against homosexuality. It ultimately depends on your epistemological approach. I have heard arguments from both sides which make homosexuality justifiable and moral; on the other hand, I have heard arguments which make the contrary claim fairly persuasively. Do you think this world contains purpose? Is their a teleology? If so, on purely phenomenological grounds, human beings would be expected to abide by a higher plane - one suiting their cognitive faculties - to conform to a metaphysical framework which sees masculine and feminine as opposites which form a perfect asymmetry - a yin/yang harmonious relationship. But if you deny the presence of teleology - something equally unprovable - than what's utilitarian would seem more rational: that the most people be happy as possible. Grumbling about "metaphysical patterns" would be deemed pointless. People could effectively be homosexual, live homosexual lives, even raise children, all without impairing the moral-ethical social fabric.

I'm not gonna say which side I subscribe to. A part of me sort of relishes the indecision - of not knowing. Neither side can claim absolute knowledge of what is right and what is wrong. They both approach this subject from radically disparate perspectives: the metaphysical belief of male/female forming a cosmological state of wholeness assumes the presence of an authoritative ontology. If we live this way, it's because there is some command, intimating itself to us through metaphorical patterns in natural processes, ultimately, guiding us to live "morally", in conformity with the ontological plan.

But the skeptical part thinks: Ok...But look around. There are decent gay people all around us: living seemingly ethical, moderate lives. They can even raise children and seem able to do a more or less equal job to heterosexual couples. If this is the information: that we can have a moral world without reference to an ontological plan, what do we make of the so-called plan? It seems to be arbitrary - without empirical basis - to claim that morality extends from this supposed metaphysical substrate.

But again, none of us know. Socrates was right when it comes to knowledge: the only things we can know for certain are tautologies. Almost everything else think we know are either approximations of observables facts or articles of faith (atheism being a very popular one). So here, the libertarian in me says: let gay people marry, and let the religious reproach them for breaking natural law. So long as it is done peaceably, everything will be OK.

Okay well what about Balance? I am a firm believer that there must be Balance in ones life. A male and a female that raise a child together is balanced. Singer mothers worldwide are proof of this imbalance.

There is an imbalance in Nature as well. The whole world is sick with it and it has clearly gone off course to what it was originally intended.

I am not religious but I am spiritual and I do believe in a Creator, call him what you will, but we need him and the whole reason he has allowed the imbalance to go on for as long as he has is so that WE realize that fact and accept his guidance, as it should be.

I am very aware of how the homosexuals like to spend their time with all their various entertainments and I hardly consider THAT balance.

if being gay was a natural thing, then nature would:

a) make all males or all females
b) allow females with females or males with males to assure the continuation of a species.

Since none of the above happen in nature, is not natural.

Its fairly simple actually.

Also rubbing beards in the morning is a disgusting concept.

I read seven pages of this before I was allowed to post. Homosexuality is not natural, it's a sexual perversion or a defect. Someone gave the definition of natural and it didnt fit. Sex or being intimate without the proper male female connectors or plugs is a fetish. Up the poo shoot really

I have a cousin , a girl who is gay, so it's not as gross if she was a guy. What you said about population control doesn't make any sense. But she is a real person who deserves same rights and everything. I see what your getting at. I on the other hand have been single for eight years, like a Buddhist monk or something. I don't have sex with anyone and am doing fine. Someone wrote I am just trying to live my life why did you make this thread, do you ever feel like your pushing your gayness or being open about it and shouting it , is a little unnecessary. So you don't have the same rights as everyone else.

Well there was this movie and in it they said " singles can sit at the children's table" , so to each his own. I used to smoke with this black Jamaican guy named James who was gay. You meet a lot of people in the mental health field who are gay, they use code and say they are bi-polar if they can't come out.

Animals do it?

Animals also eat their own excrement.

In his research the "evidence" of homosexuality is way too broad. So since my best friend is a guy and when we go to hang out is that "pair bonding?"

Woah.....I think I'm gay.

Homosexuality is a mental disorder, slowly becoming some sort of 'mass hysteria syndrome'. Anyone who says otherwise is obviously afflicted with the illness. I do not know the answer to the problem.

reply to post by Atzil321

If you look at the pre-Abrahamic cultures of the ancient world, homosexuality was not only acceptable but widely practiced.

Ummmm….I hate to be Captain Obvious BUT I must point out that those cultures have all disappeared!!!

Thanks for proving my point.

Originally posted by iLoGiCViZiOnS
I am very aware of how the homosexuals like to spend their time with all their various entertainments and I hardly consider THAT balance.

That is a very general statement, towards an entire group, which is just untrue. Making blanketed comments about all gays and their behavior is dangerous way of thinking....you have no idea how I live my life or the actions I take for entertainment...unless taking care of my dogs and watching tv is unbalanced.

reply to post by CosmicCitizen

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
Masturbation is natural.....homosexuality is not.

Why, because you say so? Did you not see the original post which shows that homosexuality occurs naturally (in nature by animals)?

By the way, even if it were unnatural, so what? There are many things that are unnatural. You don't have a problem being on the internet to voice your opinions and the internet is not natural. It was created by man (artificial).

The are many things that are natural that are harmful such as diseases, cannibalism, etc.

There are many things in natural that are beneficial such as medicine, food, water, etc.

There are many things that are unnatural and harmful such as cigarettes, etc.

There are many things that are unnatural that are beneficial such as eye-glasses, computers, books, etc.

So it doesn't matter if something is "natural" or not, that doesn't say whether it is harmful or not.

reply to post by McCool

Originally posted by McCool
Homosexuality is a mental disorder, slowly becoming some sort of 'mass hysteria syndrome'. Anyone who says otherwise is obviously afflicted with the illness. I do not know the answer to the problem.

Homosexuality means a man being attracted to another man, or a woman being attracted to another woman. You say that whomever doesn't agree with you that it is a 'mental illness' must have same sex attractions.

Your argument is a non-sequitor, it does not follow.

Not agreeing with you on classification does not mean that a person is attracted to their own gender.

Originally posted by McCool
I do not know the answer to the problem.

Why not stop gay people ramming it down our throats! It's not the fault of hetrosexuals that so many gays are unable to live with their insecurities. Same for hetrosexuals but perhaps NATURE tells gays deep down it is wrong with the guilt that comes with their actions and desires so they try to justify that guilt by demanding acceptance. Happens with many things, not just sexuality.

All part of the human condition, a messed up virus destined to fail eventually and fade into obscurity as the blip on a ball of dirt we are.

Just don't touch MY junk and leave the kids alone!

reply to post by seabag


All civilizations will eventual end..so there really isn't a point that you are proving...

reply to post by nerbot


Like it or not we are both US citizens...and we are equals. You beliefs have no bearing on my rights, since we are equals. Therefor when all right are equal you will stop feeling like it is "being shoved down your throat".

Nice to know the ATS bigots are here in full force again....

Just because you are not gay it doesn't mean it is a mental defect nor is it unnatural, no one is making you be gay you know.
Gay people just want to be treated equally just like everyone else. Just let them get on with their life and stop spreading your outdated unloving ideas.
In a 100 years you bigots will be looked at in disgust by all men and women.

reply to post by Spawn2001


Your statements are rooted in bigotry and you cannot be reasoned with it...you are generalizing homosexuality as just sex but it is not...until you understand that you will never be able to be reasonable on the subject...

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Nice to know the ATS bigots are here in full force again....

Just because you are not gay it doesn't mean it is a mental defect nor is it unnatural, no one is making you be gay you know.
Gay people just want to be treated equally just like everyone else. Just let them get on with their life and stop spreading your outdated unloving ideas.
In a 100 years you bigots will be looked at in disgust by all men and women.

Thanks for the comment I was offline for a few hours and came back to all these crazy comments!