How sad that Christians reject the good news that Jesus gave., page 9

posted on Jul, 13 2013 @ 10:42 PM

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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by colbe

The commentary that you are quoting uses a term, "eternal sacrifice", as if this is a biblical given and used to interpret all these verses, even though there is no description of such a thing in the Bible.
So all you have to offer is a circular proof by saying ahead of time what the Bible is supposed to be supporting.

A priest offers sacrifice. Our Lord is the "high priest" in Heaven, what is He offering? Our Lord is offering to the
Father perpetually His sacrifice on the Cross for mankind. On earth, it is the "continual sacrifice", the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Read Hebrews... www.drbo.org...

_ _ _

www.catholicscripture.com...

Heb. 9:12 – Jesus enters into heaven, the Holy Place, taking His own blood. How can this be? He wasn’t bleeding after the resurrection. This is because He enters into the heavenly sanctuary to mediate the covenant of His body and blood by eternally offering it to the Father. This offering is made present to us in the same manner as Melchizedek’s offering, under the appearance of bread and wine.

Heb. 9:14 - the blood of Christ offered in heaven purifies (present tense) our consciences from dead works to serve the living God. Christ's offering is ongoing.

Heb. 9:22 – blood is indeed required for the remission of sin. Jesus' blood was shed once, but it is continually offered to the Father. This is why Jesus takes His blood, which was shed once and for all, into heaven. Heb. 9:12.

Heb. 9:23 – Jesus’ sacrifice, which is presented eternally to the Father in heaven, is described as “sacrifices” (in the plural) in the context of its re-presentation on earth (the author first writes about the earthly sacrifices of animals, and then the earthly offerings of Jesus Christ’s eternal sacrifice).

Heb. 9:26 – Jesus’ once and for all appearance into heaven to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself shows that Jesus’ presence in heaven and His sacrifice are inseparable. This also shows that “once for all,” which refers to Jesus’ appearance in heaven, means perpetual (it does not, and cannot mean, “over and done with” because Jesus is in heaven for eternity). “Once for all” also refers to Jesus’ suffering and death (Heb. 7:27; 9:12,26;10:10-14). But “once for all” never refers to Jesus’ sacrifice, which is eternally presented to the Father. This sacrifice is the Mal. 1:11 pure offering made present in every place from the rising of the sun to its setting in the Eucharist offered in the same manner as the Melchizedek offering.

jmdewey60

posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 01:52 AM

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reply to post by colbe

A priest offers sacrifice.

OK, I get that you think that, but I think you, and in addition to just you, the whole cult calling itself the Catholic Church, is wrong.
Now you may have Medieval traditions that say it is right, but you don't have the Bible saying so, no matter how much biased commentary say it does.
Can you just quote one verse in the New Testament that says that anyone can offer Jesus to God as a sacrifice or anything else?

colbe

posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 03:11 AM

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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by colbe

A priest offers sacrifice.
OK, I get that you think that, but I think you, and in addition to just you, the whole cult calling itself the Catholic Church, is wrong.
Now you may have Medieval traditions that say it is right, but you don't have the Bible saying so, no matter how much biased commentary say it does.
Can you just quote one verse in the New Testament that says that anyone can offer Jesus to God as a sacrifice or anything else?

The Bible is a Catholic book Jim, so you're reading a book given to you from Catholicism so your insulting "cult" term doesn't fit. You should be tossing your Bible out the window. No, no, teasing, I pray you become
Catholic one day.

I truly wish I could explain to you, the apologist's words at Scripturecatholic.com explain Scripture much better than I but John Salza is not a help. You see in God's plan, the fact of offering sacrifice to God.

Jesus, our "high priest" offers in Heaven His supreme perfect sacrifice to the Father. On earth, the priest offers Our Lord's sacrifice to the Father "continually", every day in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The only difference is that it is an unbloody offering. Jesus died once. Then, one receives Jesus, all of Him in the most Holy Eucharist at Mass. It is the plan, supernatural, we consume God in the New Covenant not a mere sacrificed lamb as in the Old.

I gave example, always greater in the New Covenant. You can see the typology, the prefiguring in the Old Testament. Remember, Abraham in great faith was going to offer His son as a sacrifice to God in the Old? God request of Abraham but God stops him. Not so with His only Son, Jesus Christ. That is a type. Jesus who is God Himself, the son of God, is offered to the the Father in the New Covenant.

Long ago, in Malachi, the prophecy about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and in the Gospel, Jesus tells the Apostles, the first priests, to offer My body and blood to the Father. Jesus says in Luke "is given", that means
an offering, a sacrifice. Jesus says "do this", meaning to continue to offer as I have to the Father.

+ + +

Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is SACRIFICE, and there is offered to my name a CLEAN OBLATION: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts.

footnote: [11] A clean oblation: Viz., the precious body and blood of Christ in the eucharistic sacrifice.

Luke 22:19 And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which IS GIVEN for you. DO THIS for a commemoration of me. [20] In like manner the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you.

footnote: [19] Do this for a commemoration of me: This sacrifice and sacrament is to be continued in the church, to the end of the world, to shew forth the death of Christ, until he cometh. But this commemoration, or remembrance, is by no means inconsistent with the real presence of his body and blood, under these sacramental veils, which represent his death; on the contrary, it is the manner that he himself hath commanded, of commemorating and celebrating his death, by offering in sacrifice, and receiving in the sacrament, that body and blood by which we were redeemed.

www.drbo.org...

jmdewey60

posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 04:08 AM

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reply to post by colbe

I pray you become
Catholic one day.

I already am, just not a member of a cult only calling himself that.
There is one church, which contains all the members of Christ.
It is only a cult that will set himself up to say anyone not in their club will not be saved.

colbe

posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 02:31 PM

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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by colbe

I pray you become
Catholic one day.
I already am, just not a member of a cult only calling himself that.
There is one church, which contains all the members of Christ.
It is only a cult that will set himself up to say anyone not in their club will not be saved.

Protestants, non-Catholic Christians rejected the faith, Roman Catholicism, instead lamely attempt to call Christ's Church, the body of Christ to include whatever you wish to believe.

The term Catholic came from St. Ignatius, 3rd Bishop of Antioch. And proof, shows Jesus established a hierarchy.. Ignatius believes in the Eucharist. You don't. The Remnant is Roman Catholic so come believe in the Real Presence, God is going to show you personally "soon" Jimdewey.

Everyone is saved because of the Catholic Church. Everything you know of Christ came from the Catholic
Church less the Old Testament prophecies about Our Lord.

God bless you,

colbe

colbe

posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 02:36 PM

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Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by colbe

A priest offers sacrifice.
OK, I get that you think that, but I think you, and in addition to just you, the whole cult calling itself the Catholic Church, is wrong.
Now you may have Medieval traditions that say it is right, but you don't have the Bible saying so, no matter how much biased commentary say it does.
Can you just quote one verse in the New Testament that says that anyone can offer Jesus to God as a sacrifice or anything else?

The Bible is a Catholic book Jim, so you're reading a book given to you from Catholicism so your insulting "cult" term doesn't fit. You should be tossing your Bible out the window. No, no, teasing, I pray you become
Catholic one day.

I truly wish I could explain to you, the apologist's words at Scripturecatholic.com explain Scripture much better than I but John Salza is not a help. You see in God's plan, the fact of offering sacrifice to God.

Jesus, our "high priest" offers in Heaven His supreme perfect sacrifice to the Father. On earth, the priest offers Our Lord's sacrifice to the Father "continually", every day in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The only difference is that it is an unbloody offering. Jesus died once. Then, one receives Jesus, all of Him in the most Holy Eucharist at Mass. It is the plan, supernatural, we consume God in the New Covenant not a mere sacrificed lamb as in the Old.

I gave example, always greater in the New Covenant. You can see the typology, the prefiguring in the Old Testament. Remember, Abraham in great faith was going to offer His son as a sacrifice to God in the Old? God request of Abraham but God stops him. Not so with His only Son, Jesus Christ. That is a type. Jesus who is God Himself, the son of God, is offered to the the Father in the New Covenant.

Long ago, in Malachi, the prophecy about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and in the Gospel, Jesus tells the Apostles, the first priests, to offer My body and blood to the Father. Jesus says in Luke "is given", that means
an offering, a sacrifice. Jesus says "do this", meaning to continue to offer as I have to the Father.

+ + +

Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is SACRIFICE, and there is offered to my name a CLEAN OBLATION: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts.

footnote: [11] A clean oblation: Viz., the precious body and blood of Christ in the eucharistic sacrifice.

Luke 22:19 And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which IS GIVEN for you. DO THIS for a commemoration of me. [20] In like manner the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you.

footnote: [19] Do this for a commemoration of me: This sacrifice and sacrament is to be continued in the church, to the end of the world, to shew forth the death of Christ, until he cometh. But this commemoration, or remembrance, is by no means inconsistent with the real presence of his body and blood, under these sacramental veils, which represent his death; on the contrary, it is the manner that he himself hath commanded, of commemorating and celebrating his death, by offering in sacrifice, and receiving in the sacrament, that body and blood by which we were redeemed.

www.drbo.org...

I gave you a type in Scripture, the prefiguring of Jesus', the eternal sacrifice offered to the Father with the account of Abraham offering Isaac to the Father. How come you do not reply Jim?

jmdewey60

posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 05:11 PM

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reply to post by colbe

I gave you a type in Scripture, the prefiguring of Jesus', the eternal sacrifice offered to the Father with the account of Abraham offering Isaac to the Father. How come you do not reply Jim?

Because it is not a ligitimate answer.
The New Testament does not relate that story in Genesis to Jesus.
You only have human tradition to support the claim of this cult only calling itself catholic.

Greatest I am

posted on Jul, 14 2013 @ 06:42 PM

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Originally posted by colbe

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning.
He would know that barbaric human sacrifice is immoral.

You do. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

When you die, Satan will ask you; How was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

When you say yes, you become his.

Regards
DL

edit on 14-7-2013 by Greatest I am because: (no reason given)

colbe

posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 04:05 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by colbe

I gave you a type in Scripture, the prefiguring of Jesus', the eternal sacrifice offered to the Father with the account of Abraham offering Isaac to the Father. How come you do not reply Jim?
Because it is not a ligitimate answer.
The New Testament does not relate that story in Genesis to Jesus.
You only have human tradition to support the claim of this cult only calling itself catholic.

You don't understand typology, prefiguring in the Old Testament.You can protest, the word Catholic came from a Catholic, St. Ignatius of Antioch.

Jimdewey:
"Can you just quote one verse in the New Testament that says that anyone can offer Jesus to God as a sacrifice or anything else? "

I'll repeat Jim, basics, a priest offers sacrifice not just "anyone" as you say. In the Holy SACRIFICE of the Mass on earth, Jesus sacrifice on Calvary is represented to the Father. In Heaven, Our Lord, the "high priest" is offering His sacrifice to the Father forever.

+ + +

Jesus in Glory Perpetually Offers the Father His Sacrifice on Our Behalf

Rev. 1 to 22 - Jesus is described as the "Lamb" 28 times in the book of Revelation. This is because Jesus emphasizes His sacrifice in heaven and in His Holy Catholic Church.

Rev. 1:13 - Jesus is clothed in heaven with a long robe and golden girdle like the Old Testament priests who offered animal sacrifices. See Exodus 28:4.

Rev. 2:17 - the spiritual manna, our Lord's glorious body and blood, is emphasized in the heavenly feast.

Rev. 3:20 - as Priest and Paschal Lamb, our Lord shares the Eucharistic meal with us to seal His New Covenant. Through the covenant of his body and blood, we are restored to the Father and become partakers of the divine nature.

Rev. 5:6 - this verse tells us that Jesus in His glory still looks like a lamb who was slain. Also, Jesus is "standing" as though a Lamb who was slain. Lambs that are slain lie down. This odd depiction shows Jesus stands at the Altar as our eternal priest in forever offering Himself to the Father for our salvation.

Rev. 14:1, Heb. 12:22 - Zion is the city where Jesus established the Eucharist and which was miraculously preserved after the destruction of Jerusalem. See also Psalms 2:6 and 132:13. It represents the union of heaven and earth, of divinity and humanity. This is why those who enter into the Eucharistic celebration on earth enter into the presence of innumerable angels, the souls of the just made perfect, Jesus the Mediator of the Covenant and His sprinkled blood, and God the Judge of all.

Rev. 19:13 - in all His glory, Jesus' sacrifice is eternally present as He presents Himself to the Father clothed in a robe dipped in blood. Jesus' sacrifice is the focus in heaven and in the Mass. When the Father beholds His Son, He beholds His sacrifice for humanity.

Rev. 19:9 - we are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb where we become one with Him by consuming His body and blood. This is the nuptial union of divinity and humanity.

Heb. 2:17; 3:1; 4:14; 8:1; 9:11,25; 10:19,22 - Jesus is repeatedly described as "High Priest." But in order to be a priest, “it is necessary for [Jesus] to have something to offer.” Heb. 8:3. This is the offering of the eternal sacrifice of His body and blood to the Father.

Heb. 2:18 - although His suffering is past tense, His expiation of our sins is present tense because His offering is continual. Therefore, He is able (present tense) to help those who are tempted.

Heb. 5:6,10; 6:20; 7:15,17 - these verses show that Jesus restores the father-son priesthood after Melchizedek. Jesus is the new priest and King of Jerusalem and feeds the new children of Abraham with His body and blood. This means that His eternal sacrifice is offered in the same manner as the bread and wine offered by

Melchizedek in Gen. 14:18. But the bread and wine that Jesus offers is different, just as the Passover Lamb of the New Covenant is different. The bread and wine become His body and blood by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit.

Heb. 4:3 – God’s works were finished from the foundation of the world. This means that God’s works, including Christ’s sacrifice (the single act that secured the redemption of our souls and bodies), are forever present in eternity. Jesus’ suffering is over and done with (because suffering was earthly and temporal), but His sacrifice is eternal, because His priesthood is eternal (His victimized state was only temporal).

Heb. 4:14 – Jesus the Sacrifice passes through the heavens by the glory cloud of God, just like the sacrifices of Solomon were taken up into heaven by the glory cloud of God in 2 Chron. 7:1. See also Mark 16:19; Luke 24:51; and Acts 1:10.

www.scripturecatholic.com... ~ the Eucharist....

jmdewey60

posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by colbe

Jesus in Glory Perpetually Offers the Father His Sacrifice on Our Behalf

It actually says the opposite that he entered once with his own blood, not as an offering but as the seal of the new covenant.

colbe

posted on Jul, 15 2013 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by colbe

Jesus in Glory Perpetually Offers the Father His Sacrifice on Our Behalf

It actually says the opposite that he entered once with his own blood, not as an offering but as the seal of the new covenant.

Christ's ONE time bloody sacrifice as I said is "REPRESENTED" in an unbloody manner to the Father in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Men are still sinning! Our Lord's death is the greatest sacrifice of all time.

Revealed, since 33 A.D., we can know in the oral Word (tradition) and later in the written Word, the first Christians referred to the Mass as the "breaking of the bread" which also refers to the Holy Eucharist. When did they assemble to "break bread", on "the first day of the week."

Paul was/is a priest, He refers to himself offering the sacred ministries (Rom 15:15-16), the Sacraments.

ob·la·tion
/əˈblāSHən/
Noun
A thing presented or offered to God or a god. The presentation of bread and wine to God in the Eucharist.

p.s. In the almost completely changed KJV Bible, King James and his rebellion, his translators change the term "priest" in the Gospel to elder or sometimes the original word for "priest", presbyter. Protestantism rejects Christ's New Covenant ministerial "priesthood."

Romans 15:15-16
But I have written to you, brethren, more boldly in some sort, as it were putting you in mind: because of the grace which is given me from God. [16] That I should be the minister of Christ Jesus among the Gentiles; sanctifying the gospel of God, that the oblation of the Gentiles may be made acceptable and sanctified in the Holy Ghost.

Greatest I am

posted on Jul, 21 2013 @ 06:38 PM
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In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning.
He would know that barbaric human sacrifice is immoral.

You do too. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

When you die, Satan will ask you; How was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

When you say yes, you become his.

Regards
DL

jmdewey60

posted on Jul, 22 2013 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by colbe

Your interpretation of Romans 15:16 seems to be that Paul taught the gentiles so that when they gave their sacrifices, they would be accepted by God.

The right interpretation is that Paul was making a metaphor, where in it, he is the priest and his offering to God is the gentiles, who were made acceptable by his having preached to them the gospel.

I think that most of the bad theology on this forum comes from people posting here who have part of their brain disabled that is supposed to pick up on metaphors, and like a small child, only see things in literal terms.

colbe

posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by colbe

Your interpretation of Romans 15:16 seems to be that Paul taught the gentiles so that when they gave their sacrifices, they would be accepted by God.

The right interpretation is that Paul was making a metaphor, where in it, he is the priest and his offering to God is the gentiles, who were made acceptable by his having preached to them the gospel.

I think that most of the bad theology on this forum comes from people posting here who have part of their brain disabled that is supposed to pick up on metaphors, and like a small child, only see things in literal terms.

Explain, what is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass for 2000 years? What is being offered?

I shared, Paul is a (minister), a priest offering the (oblation), Christ's sacrifice to the Father. Again Paul states:

Romans 15:16:
That I should be the minister of Christ Jesus among the Gentiles; sanctifying the gospel of God, that the oblation of the Gentiles may be made acceptable and sanctified in the Holy Ghost.

Christ's eternal sacrifice offered to the Father is NOT a metaphor. I do not know where you came up with this, no authority for sure and obvious reason for denying, Protestants reject the New Covenant ministerial priesthood. A priest offers sacrifice.

God did NOT give everyone reading Scripture the authority to interpret it. He understands His creation, everyone would come up with their own interpretations...this is the lie of "private judgment" and oh what fruit. Error and division. "Private judgment" of Scripture is heresy.

How many Protestant sects are there now? One started every week since October 31, 1517.

God gave the authority to interpret Scripture to the Church NOT every person reading it. Makes sense, logical,
The RCC canonized holy Scripture. Read the English translation of the Latin Vulgate - www.drbo.org...

Jim, God, the Blessed Trinity wants you to become Catholic. They are going to show you personally during
the Great Warning (Rev 6:15-17, 1 Cor 3:13). Remember, remember.

colbe

posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by colbe

Your interpretation of Romans 15:16 seems to be that Paul taught the gentiles so that when they gave their sacrifices, they would be accepted by God.

The right interpretation is that Paul was making a metaphor, where in it, Texthe is the priest and his offering to God is the gentiles, who were made acceptable by his having preached to them the gospel.

I think that most of the bad theology on this forum comes from people posting here who have part of their brain disabled that is supposed to pick up on metaphors, and like a small child, only see things in literal terms.

My interpretation, no Jim, this is Christ's teaching.

Your "small child", Baby Christian response, "they gave their sacrifices" and what exactly were those sacrifices? No good, your general vague personal comment to justify your private judgment of Scripture.

Oh, wow, you admit Paul is "the priest.!!!" Paul is offering the gentiles up as sacrifice, "his offering to God is the gentiles" you say. Huuuuhhh? Paul is offering humanity up as sacrifice because they are worthy by Paul's preaching to them? Nuts! What of Christ's perfect sacrifice? Only God can atone for our sins against Him.

jmdewey60

posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 11:06 PM
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reply to post by colbe

Christ's eternal sacrifice offered to the Father is NOT a metaphor.

Whatever you are saying here is not in the Bible, either.
Paul's saying he is a priest is part of the metaphor, since he was never in a literal sense a priest.
In this metaphor where he is a priest, what is he offering to God?

God did NOT give everyone reading Scripture the authority to interpret it.
Since when?
Number one, I would never trust the interpretation of a priest of a cult like the Catholic church, since you have to be basically retarded to be one, in my opinion.

How many Protestant sects are there now?
The Catholic church was the original schismatic cult.
edit on 23-7-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

jmdewey60

posted on Jul, 23 2013 @ 11:21 PM
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reply to post by colbe

Oh, wow, you admit Paul is "the priest.!!!"

Young children have an inability to "get" complex concepts like sarcasm and metaphor, and some adults don't either, where they never developed that ability and are in a certain way retarded, and so they make weird exclamations like you did because they can only comprehend things in a literal way, never having developed the ability to see things in any other way.
I will quote part of a sentence from Romans by Robert Jewett to show that I am not the only one who thinks that Paul is "offering" the gentiles.
. . . Paul's evangelistic proclamation results in a transformation of the Gentiles into an "acceptable offering" in fulfilment of an end-time scheme . . .
edit on 23-7-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

colbe

posted on Jul, 24 2013 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by colbe

Oh, wow, you admit Paul is "the priest.!!!"

Young children have an inability to "get" complex concepts like sarcasm and metaphor, and some adults don't either, where they never developed that ability and are in a certain way retarded, and so they make weird exclamations like you did because they can only comprehend things in a literal way, never having developed the ability to see things in any other way.
I will quote part of a sentence from Romans by Robert Jewett to show that I am not the only one who thinks that Paul is "offering" the gentiles.
. . . Paul's evangelistic proclamation results in a transformation of the Gentiles into an "acceptable offering" in fulfilment of an end-time scheme . . .
edit on 23-7-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Sorry Jim, no offense but...

Another Protestant's same error.

Our Lord's perfect sacrifice is remembered and continued to be offered to God the Father. Our Lord's sacrifice on the Cross is represented, offered to the Father in an unbloody manner. Did you read the papers yesterday/today, humanity is still sinning. And God the Father desires we never to forget.

Your "the Gentiles into an "acceptable offering" ie: sacrifice, is not the "continual sacrifice" prophesied in the OT and fulfilled in the New. ONLY Jesus can be the perfect sacrifice offered in atonement to the Father for the world's sins. Jesus' one time offering for all is perpetual and eternal.

Jim, better than I could ever explain, read these four short paragraphs, see the quote from John 2...linked:

file:///C:/Users/MARYTH~1/AppData/Local/Temp/massmain-3.shtml

..."Another point is that the Mass is an UNBLOODY sacrifice: Christ does NOT die again in the sacrifice. Most people tend to think of a sacrifice as a death, as though it is the death of the sacrificial victim which constitutes a sacrifice. Therefore, it is common for the sacrifice of Christ to be reduced to His death alone. However, the death of the victim is only the first part of a sacrifice, with the presentation of the sacrifice being the second, more important, part. If an Old Covenant priest had slain an animal and then failed to present it to God, there would have been no sacrifice. Christ's sacrifice was presented to the Father when His risen body ascended into Heaven, and is continually presented so long as Christ is there in Heaven with the Father. The death of Christ was in our time, but the presentation is not and can not be by definition.

Simply by being present in Heaven, Christ is presenting Himself to the Father. Hebrews 9:24 makes reference to this, saying, “For Christ has entered… into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf.” This is why the book of Hebrews says that Christ “is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.” (7:25) This intercession is NOT a different work from the sacrifice. It can't be, because that would mean that His sacrifice was not sufficient. Protestant commentators stress this point. The intercessory work of Christ is not a different work from His sacrifice; it is part of the sacrifice. It is the eternal presentation of Christ before the Father. This appearing as a perpetual presentation is so that He can perpetually be propitiation for our sins, as 1 John 2:1-2 says.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He IS the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

The verb 'IS' here in “He is propitiation” is in the present tense, meaning that Jesus is currently the propitiation. Protestant Greek commentators are often very perplexed by this because they cannot understand how Christ could currently be propitiation, since Protestant theology understands Christ’s sacrifice on the cross to be the ONLY propitiation for sins. It is correct to understand Christ’s sacrifice as the only propitiation for sins. However, it is incorrect to understand the death on the cross to in and of itself be the sacrifice. It is because Christ’s sacrifice consists of both the death on the cross and His eternal presentation to the Father that John can write that He IS currently the propitiation for sins."...

God bless you,

colbe

colbe

posted on Jul, 24 2013 @ 03:29 AM
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I looked up the verse in the KJV....does not say "was" the propriation....

1 John 2:2

King James Version (KJV)

2 And he IS the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

jmdewey60

posted on Jul, 24 2013 @ 08:37 AM
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reply to post by colbe

Another Protestant's same error.
You seem to be another Catholic fallen into belief in a cult rather than the Bible as your theological source, preferring the doctrines of men over the word of God.

Our Lord's perfect sacrifice is remembered and continued to be offered to God the Father. Our Lord's sacrifice on the Cross is represented, offered to the Father in an unbloody manner. Did you read the papers yesterday/today, humanity is still sinning. And God the Father desires we never to forget.
Jesus was never presented in the Bible as an offering to God, but always as an offering from God to the world.
We remember Jesus' sacrifice through the sacrament of the symbols, as taught by Jesus at the Last Supper, with himself sacrificing his life for the sake of those who believed in him.

Your "the Gentiles into an "acceptable offering" ie: sacrifice, is not the "continual sacrifice" prophesied in the OT and fulfilled in the New.
The Prophecy was in Daniel and it was about the end of a daily sacrifice.

ONLY Jesus can be the perfect sacrifice offered in atonement to the Father for the world's sins.
That is a later confabulation of the Roman schismatic cult only calling itself catholic. The Bible does not present Jesus as being sacrificed to God, but was sacrificed by God towards our salvation by believing in him.

Jesus' one time offering for all is perpetual and eternal.
The covenant inaugurated through his death is eternal, not his being killed daily on the cultish (pagan influenced practice) altar.

It is correct to understand Christ’s sacrifice as the only propitiation for sins.
The word "sacrifice" is not in the verses in 1 John that you quoted. The word "propitiation" doesn't mean necessarily sacrifice, but something conducive to peace between two parties.
edit on 24-7-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)