The pain inflicted upon the American people is above partisanship. It's about FOOD now.

Idiots, they are - one and all.

The reason why many of us live so well, is because SO many, live so poorly.

Don't throw the poor a bone every once in awhile and they will revolt - and, win - there are much more of them.

*sigh*

Only a matter of time.

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz
Idiots, they are - one and all.

The reason why many of us live so well, is because SO many, live so poorly.

Don't throw the poor a bone every once in awhile and they will revolt - and, win - there are much more of them.

*sigh*

Only a matter of time.

That's actually not true.

I highly suggest Milton Friedman's "Freedom to Choose" to get a better understanding on the divide between rich and poor.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Eldensword


This is not true anymore. When I was a girl in the 50's and 60's we moved every year following construction. We were a family of six. We could rent furnished apartments with no problem and with a dog, and reference were not necessary or credit checks. My dad would have a job in a day. We did not have to have a phone or even an address because you could get a job on the spot. Gas was way less than a dollar a gallon. You did not deposits for power. There is more but I just can't recall them right now.

Originally posted by MOMof3
reply to post by Eldensword

 

This is not true anymore. When I was a girl in the 50's and 60's we moved every year following construction. We were a family of six. We could rent furnished apartments with no problem and with a dog, and reference were not necessary or credit checks. My dad would have a job in a day. We did not have to have a phone or even an address because you could get a job on the spot. Gas was way less than a dollar a gallon. You did not deposits for power. There is more but I just can't recall them right now.

You proved his point by saying "moved"...His point was people limit "Opportunity" to cushy office jobs within 30 miles of where they currently live. Your dad moved to where construction was needed to provide for his family. All you did was bolster his point. My dad did the same exact thing. I lived in 10 cities the first eight years of my life.

reply to post by jaynx
I always say to people there is a difference between being poor and lazy. Growing up we needed help, my mom was in a wheel chair(MS) and my father had a major heart attack at age 32. Life was rough. I remember I would go to look for something to eat and all there was were saltine crackers and that was it. What we got for help pretty much only covered the bills. We lived in a house built out of an old school house that wasn't insulated and had a two seat outhouse(and boy was that cold on the butt when it was below 32). But my dad taught us how to live off the land by gardening and going into the woods and pick berries and what not and what have ya.. He taught us this after he started feeling better. Anyway I have no problem helping anyone, but we really need to clean the system up, it is broken. And people can blame this party or that but they are both to blame for the fraud and abuse (equally). They have there priorities messed up, and pee money away. We need to do a lot of things, but one thing I learned in life is we should always help the poor. Sorry subject took me down memory lane. Rant over.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by ThreeBears

 

Unions were hijacked by Chrony capitalist rackets

They were hijacked by mafia, but in general have been a tool of communism. Glad I could clear that up for you. And now they are getting waivers from Obamacare which was supposed to be the very cat's meow the socialists in town were for, until reality set in.

Communism as you refer to here, is NOT the WORKERS OWNING the means of production, but rather a Syndicate, of Fuedalists, aka Chrony Capitalists, which is a centralized and corrupt Hijacking of what "communism in Theory" is believed to be,

Glad I could clear That up for you.

The Hijackers and "moles" did exceptional work in Keeping TRUE communism OUT of the unions over all, that's a simplistic means in putting it as I'm not going to dig up all the historical union and communist party history, etc.,

But if Anything, Unions were maneuvered to PROTECT capitalism, not the workers....SYNDICATE.

Mafia correct, but hardly communist. Addition, this is not to say that there wasn't Stalinist "moles" or influence within the union infrastructure, of course there was, socialism, etc (there ARE differences you Know WITHIN communist and Socialist parties/agendas that don't even agree to the same ends, especially considering the Internationale verses the nationalists, etc., Trotskiests verses Stalinists and so forth, socialism not aiming towards communism has even More splinter Grouops within so lumping up anything not robber baron worship as communism is a bit infantile to say the least).

In other words, there were Huge disparities and disagreements Between the pro-capitalist Unions to that of harder core socialist and communist agendas, Because of the SYNDICATELISM, which is more like Fascist Fuedalism, not even Remotley close to the WORKING CLASS having any power over squat, in Other words, majority of unionism was a MIRAGE, working more FOR the CAPITALIST CLASS, to save the elite structure, centralized, etc.

As far as America is concerned, I can't speak for other nations as I do not know much about their union structure to give an opinion, but the US union structure was Far from communist, or even left wing socialist, RIGHT wing socialism, Sure...

And according to labor/union historians, a Lot of THAT problem was Due to flat out RACISM, Americans simply didn't want to give up

White Privilege OR Class, and That's how the communists (those loyal to solidarity) assess it.

Again this is simply put, it's far more complex than this and over Certain periods, such as pre WWII and so forth there were changes even within all that I mentioned, AND very important here, the structure of unions DID differ according to the Types of labor as well as the Region of the country, but as to the lack of Worker owned power,

That's Chrony fascist capitalism, or Corporate Capitalism, which IS what the major POWERS behind the unions were, Put there by the very Robber Barons themselves,

Judas.

Just call then Judas because That's what they were,

In all fairness, if analyzing Stalinism and the workers of Russia, etc the same could be said, basically Fuedalism with a gun.

Again, over simplification explanation but point being, WORKERS have never OWNED ANYTHING in this nation as far as Means of Production, regardless.

reply to post by raifordko


I am not sure a family can just relocate today with no money, credit, phone, furniture, or job.

Originally posted by MOMof3
reply to post by raifordko

 

I am not sure a family can just relocate today with no money, credit, phone, furniture, or job.

Really? I moved from HI to Cali with no job and a wife AND I was changing careers from scientific research to IT Systems. I found a job in 24 days (I lived in a KoA while I looked and worked part time as a laborer for a mason company. Why Cali you ask? Because I did my research and that was the best place for a job in the field I wanted to be in and was qualified for)...when my job in Cali (5 years and laid off as the DC was moved to Jacksonville, FL) was done I moved to NYC with no job and a wife. I found a job in a month. I got divorced in NYC and my wife took my mid town condo. I went back to Cali and found a job in a month. I had no unemployment because I quit the job I had due to my divorce. Now I'm married again with 2 kids and I am fairly certain if I had to up and move I'd be fine.

Now it may be hard for not so smart people who have houses, cars, toys etc. that they can't afford to up and leave, but I don't really feel bad for those people.

I also don't feel bad for people who cry because their unemployment is running out when the want adds clearly say "Looking for apprentice electrician" or some such manual labor job. We have a high % of unemployed college graduates because they refuse to be waiters, hotel workers, movie theater employees etc. while they look for real work or continue their education.

reply to post by ThreeBears


I should also add, the uh hum, cough, Church, had a LOT to do with the ssssshhh hindering of any Real Workers owning means of production due to the Judas proCapitalist Unions,

Also a mix of politics and good ole religious back room dealings. (they sure loves the black market, bottom line it's Always about protecting the nobles and elite class AT the Expense of the workers, dumb peasants, etc, using their rhetoric)

Just thought I'd throw that little "jewel diamond" in there, Ya Know kind of like how Gypsies as folk tale would put it,

Have the women swallow the stones to crap then out later

And my ole my how the good ole frat clubs just love their gambling halls, or should I say Gladiator arenas and Venus temples [brothels] easier to control them with....

And of Course the Peasant class will believe the Theatrics, the Masters of Drama were experts at their Craft.

reply to post by Kgnow

Too many women are happily sleeping around without a second thought regarding the integrity of the man....

I think the integrity of the man speaks for itself in these situations, after all.. the women aren't sleeping with themselves.

Originally posted by raifordko

Originally posted by MOMof3
reply to post by raifordko

 

I am not sure a family can just relocate today with no money, credit, phone, furniture, or job.

Really? I moved from HI to Cali with no job and a wife AND I was changing careers from scientific research to IT Systems. I found a job in 24 days (I lived in a KoA while I looked and worked part time as a laborer for a mason company. Why Cali you ask? Because I did my research and that was the best place for a job in the field I wanted to be in and was qualified for)...when my job in Cali (5 years and laid off as the DC was moved to Jacksonville, FL) was done I moved to NYC with no job and a wife. I found a job in a month. I got divorced in NYC and my wife took my mid town condo. I went back to Cali and found a job in a month. I had no unemployment because I quit the job I had due to my divorce. Now I'm married again with 2 kids and I am fairly certain if I had to up and move I'd be fine.

Now it may be hard for not so smart people who have houses, cars, toys etc. that they can't afford to up and leave, but I don't really feel bad for those people.

I also don't feel bad for people who cry because their unemployment is running out when the want adds clearly say "Looking for apprentice electrician" or some such manual labor job. We have a high % of unemployed college graduates because they refuse to be waiters, hotel workers, movie theater employees etc. while they look for real work or continue their education.

One, you had a skill IN DEMAND, which requires study which requires monies, or at least student loans of which if you had of taken lots of those IF paying them you probably wouldn't have faired so well...typically,

Two, in a Koa Campground which Probably implies you owned a Recreational vehicle which are NOT CHEAP by no means, they are the Nicer ones at least, rich mans toys...

And well maybe not, maybe you harsher it out in a tent but even still, you obviously had savings So you were of some Reliable INCOME prior to your move, etc., not working any minimum wage job with Zero savings, or Service sector job which is a Huge percentage of worker demographics and that's INCLUDING College Grads, ESP those Paying mega amounts in student loans,

So that right there you already are At an ADVATANTAGE

So to Tell someone that is NOT as ADvantage for whatever reason that they just are not smart, Wreaks of

Arrogance. As well as Ignorance,

Not Everyone has the same Advantages Not because of choice but because of the Region they reside in. In Other words, comparing apples to oranges,

PRIVELEGE to NON PRIVELEGE.

Circumstancial differences, NOT Character differences, see huge Factor in all that.

Not Slamming you for having Privelege, that's just Life, some people are just more fortunate than others and have access to opportunities that others don't...Like, squirrels have an abundance of nuts due from living BY nature in areas full of trees, and water where as a kit fox of the Sonoran desert Isn't going to have the same type of abundance resource wise and will have to be a bit more scrupulous to survive...not because the fox is not as "smart" but because of the ENVIRONMENT in which the two live and the RESOURCES they have Access to,

So sure if they are, let's say single with no children and can move, then yes it would be feasible for them to risk and move,

But a let's say family who at One time HAD security Because their ENVIRONMENT provided the jobs and resources, and then that Environment experiences a Drought, They may not Have all the resources necessary to not only relocate But adapt if they do,

And Even then, MANY DO RELOCATE only to find that so did Hundreds of others and the sustainability of a place simply cannot Provide JOBS for all those people Then what???

You Know in the Depression era there Were sme who took the job calls to CA and made it, in the beginning, there were Thousands of others who Did the same,

And we're Deliberately lied to by corrupt land owners and starved TO DEATH. There WERE NO JOBS,

Why they had to move? Numerous of them due to the DUST BOWL that They themselves did NOT CREATE.

Americans sure forget Their history, don't they? me thinks some people need to get back to reading, I'll suggest a book,

"Grapes of Wrath by Steinbeck"

Sure as hell applies Here!

reply to post by raifordko


I lived in an 8 by 10 camper with my 3 children transitioning. No one would rent to us because credit checks and we had just started new jobs. It took a while to afford an apartment. My parents with four kids never had to live on the river in a camper. They did not have parameters set by landlords and corporations to stop their progress the way it is now.

reply to post by Maluhia
Cute girl but bad sign. First they ate the rich but I did nothing because I was not rich...The idea that gov't must solve everyone's problems (Communism) won't work; gov't doesn't produce food so it would have to take yours to give to others. Soon, no-one will have food. A co-worker complained to me that his dad's unemployment would end unless Obama extended it. After serving my country for 12 years, I was granted 3 months unemployment so I was sympathetic and asked how long he had been using it. He said one year. I said he must have a nice garden by now. He looked at me like I was crazy. The crap is hitting the fan and you better make a garden and store food. If you come for my little cashe and plot, one of us will probably die. This is no joke. I bet there are 1,000 people for every little garden plot somebody has made.

reply to post by ThreeBears


I will say, however, giving you credit where credit is due, as I'm not totally unreasonable to not see other views,

You are Correct in that it's Smart to have plan B always just in case...

Such as the means to be Able to survive in a KOA while job searching, that's some good survival skills, but Remeber, not Everywhere HAS KOA grounds NOR laws Friendly to folks living self sufficient that way and Now even More so, as Hoovervilles of Campers are being set up all over west coast, for example...

Just like in the good ole DEPRESSION ERA but hey, Were not in a Depression ah Noooooooo, it's just a minor set back, yea yea ok WhatEver,


Anyhoo, you can't really Blame the PEOPLE for NOT have a Plan B because to Have a Plan B one has to Beleive that,

OH MY GOSH the American Dream is really just a load of capitalist crapola LIES and that it's a system set up by DESIGN to fail, AND well, OMG if People were to Believe that,

Ya Know TRUTH

Then well they Might not CONSUME so much during good times and like OMG then what would those Merchants Do

Why we Gotsa keep that Delusion a going, More DEBT and more CONSUMPTION and by golly never ASK why you can't save much After paying over HALF of your Income to RENT or MORTGAGE???

No DISPOSABLE INCOME, well tsk tsk what ya mean, why just get it on Credit! Everyone Else does, after all we All make 60K a year Right???

That's the AMERICAN DREAM and well by golly if Your life isn't adding up to the Delusion well, huh, ya must be doing something wrong,

So there's no savings for a rainy or DROUGHT day,

And Even IF ya knew that the whole dream was a capitalist load of BULLKAKI, you never made enough after rent, utilities and bus, to save anyway...living from Check to Check, nickel and dimed to death but Hey,

THAT TOO is part of the AMERICAN DREAM and by golly take PRIDE in your Poverty because that's how it's done, why you WORK UP the LADDER, that whole DREAM thing,

Too bad it's a big fat LIE now huh,

And when the Bottom falls out and it WILL FALL OUT,

Well you can CONVENEINTLY FORGET ALL THOSE PROSPERITY DEBT ADDS ON TV THAT YOU PROBABLY SUPPORTED and ALL those other LIFE IN AMERICA IS SOOOOO GOOD,

And well JUST Demonize and Blame the Poor suckers who Just weren't as smart as you!

But see now HERE'S the Difference between the Arrogant Today compared to the Arrogant of the 1930s, see Today, the Capitalist Barron, is GLOBAL,

Meaning YOU might be well ok for NOW on that middle of the Pyramid, but now YOU yourself, have a WHOLE GLOBAL PLAYGROUND OF COMPETITION of STARVING WORKERS who WILL work LESS THAN YOU,

And so You SMART ONE may be OK for "now" but once your Corporate Bosses find an even CHEAPER production model OVERSEAS by JUST AS INTELLIGENT IF NOT MORE SO THAN YOU, they'll DUMP your arrogant ass like a hot potatoe

And You'll be scrapping like the Rest of us dumb peasants.

This isn't 1930 any more, the world is a Much different Stage today than then, so for now, ya LUCKY,

And that's ALL YOU ARE!

Originally posted by Sankari

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
HOUSE VOTES TO CUT FOOD STAMPS BY $2 BILLION

So reads the headline on this story and so I'm outraged by it. How dare these little rodents in the GOP even pretend to speak for anyone in the average level of society right now. How dare they even try!

They're reducing benefits to discourage the culture of entitlement.

People have said for a long time that Obama gives away too much stuff for free, so this is great news for conservatives and even better news for Democrats, who can now justifiably confirm that Obama isn't a soft touch after all.

edit on 19/6/13 by Sankari because: typo...

The "culture of entitlement" is created by the one percent that owns 60 percent of the wealth of the country. They feel "entitled' to keep more and more for themselves and less for everyone else. If they didnt and wages werent so OBSCENELY flat for going on three decades, you would see a lot less need for food stamps in the first place. I want to ask you a question. If some CEO decides he wants to send your job to Singapore, and suddenly you are out of work, in an economy where there are still largely no living wage jobs to have, how is wanting to feed your kids when for many people the ONLY way to do so it food stamps, entitlement?


I think this video explains "entitlement" very well.

I don't get it, we give away 2 billion to some foreign country that's starving and now they want to cut 2 billion from food stamps.

Originally posted by Bilk22
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I mean 12million more will want to come for the free pizza and beer - oh yes you can buy beer with food stamps -

Oh you can buy cigs too. Go figure. (I use food stamps generically. There's lots of programs with different names)

---You can NOT buy beer with food stamps. Or cigarettes. Or dog food. Dish soap. Toilet paper. Or anything that...ISN'T FOOD. There are other programs which do provide cash, but they are not the Food Stamp program, and using the term food stamps "generically", as you put it, adds nothing to the discussion. The OP was not discussing the other programs which provide cash, or public housing, or Medicaid, or any other government program. The bill was not about cutting the other programs which provide cash, or public housing, it was about cutting FOOD stamps. People who conflate food stamps with other programs such as TANF simply muddy the issue.

Originally posted by Eldensword
This is staggering - Just amazing, stats, and graphs and this and that...It still doesn't make one, simple fact go away for your case - Opportunity is EVERYWHERE and more abundant than what the average, FS collecting shmo can "deal with". Example: What was the opportunity for the slaves coming off of the ships to US? Depends on how you look at it, right? Life SUCKED ASS for them in Africa - They weren't leaving luxury cars and mansions behind, right? The circumstances were terrible, the slave owners AND sellers, wrong to do so, but eventually, these people kicked slavery's butt and many of them gained property and wealth and OPPORTUNITY WITHOUT HANDOUTS.

You can argue that there is no opportunity for people today until you're blue in the face and I'll continue to show you where they can EFFING MOVE AWAY from that demographic, yes...don't argue, a person can change their location, dispite how "beat down by the man" you lefty, softies think they are...There are things to do, dollars to scrape together and improve the situation, EVERYWHERE for the thinking, innovative human.

Now, let's argue about the individual's perception of "opportunity". Here inlies the whole flippin' problem...

edit on 21-6-2013 by Eldensword because: 5P3LLYNG Pr0blumbs

I'm going to say to you, the same thing I say to everyone who argues that there's opportunity out there. I'm 30 years old and hold college degrees in game design, web programming, digital art, and computer science. I also hold several certificates such as Maya, 3ds Max, Autocad, Adobe, MySQL, Ubuntu, A+, Cisco, and a few others. There is no opportunity around here, I work as a computer tutor at the local community college (a job that pays below minimum wage and has no room for advancement at all, McDonalds would be a step up had they not told me I was overqualified). I have of course applied to several jobs out of state, and even been offered a couple however when they hear I need some money upfront to pay for moving expenses they quickly look elsewhere. Why pay extra for an employee, when they can hire one for less? My resume sadly doesn't demand signing bonuses because my actual work experience is quite poor due to this area having no opportunity.

So here's my offer to you, you know my education and skill set. I'm willing to work. Give me a starting bonus that will cover my moving expenses and I'll work for you at a pretty low wage even. Fail to do so, and admit you're unwilling to put your money where your mouth is and actually provide that opportunity you claim is out there.

Originally posted by zenartist
What should be done is to revamp the program to provide food to those that need it ..not money . Set up distribution centers that provide packages of good nutritious food to those that need it. Have balanced healthy food purchased from local providers when possible , No chips and soda .. milk bread carrots etc instead. Put those receiving monetary assistance to work in these distribution centers. This will weed out the abusers and put people to work.

Wouldn't that be re-inventing the wheel? We already have grocery stores stocked with all those things, and you cannot buy anything non-food with food stamps. Why not simply narrow the range of items you can buy with food stamps? Instead of creating an entirely new food-distribution center that duplicates the "real food" part of the local grocery, why not simply take chips and soda and the like off the items food stamps covers? That would just entail making software changes in stores' computer systems and POS machines.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Snap has taken drug tests here in New York for years. It's not for everybody but for most. When applying you have to fill out a lot of papers and make 5 appointments that cross check your information. If you have ever had drug problems or used your medicaid to receive treatment for drug or alcohol you will be drug tested and made to do outpatient treatment. I live in the Bronx & a large amount of people I know on public assistance or section 8 have past problems with drug & alcohol. BUT, they don't through you off for giving a dirty urine, they just make staying on a Living Hell.