"Why Should Congress and the Courts Care About Snooping If Citizens Don't?"... Uh.....What?

There really are checks and balances in our national-security system, but apathy prevents them from exercising rigorous oversight.

Then again, it's not at all clear that an informed Congress -- or even informed intelligence committees -- would matter. We've seen time and again in the almost dozen years since the 9/11 attacks an almost bipartisan deference to the executive. Wyden is in a tiny minority; most at least publicly side with McCain, Feinstein and others who see these programs as critical to protecting the Republic.

And, certainly, the American people themselves seem predisposed to trade privacy and liberty for even the illusion of safety, as evidenced by what we'll put up with at airports and virtually every opinion poll on the subject. A solid majority (56 percent) in a Washington Post-Pew survey taken after the NSA story broke support the program and a whopping 62 percent "think [it] is more important right now for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy."

The Atlantic Story

I just came across this article published this morning in The Atlantic.
Where are they getting these people from who "take" these surveys?

I would guarantee that there are not a 62% majority here on ATS who believe this topic isn't important. Just look at the list of popular threads for the last week or so. Did the "researchers" just interview a few people, then make up the results to be published? I'm guessing that's a probability. A high probability.

Then again, if the true results were actually way lower, we'd be due for another false flag. To sway the public opinion.
Either way, this greatly concerns me. For obvious reasons it's concerning if the results were made up. But if there are truly this many people who feel that having their phone calls recorded, and their email logged, then the propaganda campaign has been very successful.

Actually, the more that I think about it, these results could be BOTH of the above. Let's create some inflated statistics about this issue. For those who disagree on this issue, just look. You're a minority. You're not thinking like the rest of us. Get with the program and start thinking like you're supposed to!

Those last few lines were sarcasm, and not my opinion on how things should be. But possibly how they are.

I rather fear you might find the majority of people do believe in the 'If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear' way of thinking. Look back through history at the number of times governments have gotten away with no end of infringements based off that alone.

I'm okay with these programs...

If they check me out and find I am no threat to anybody, or National Security. Then I politely demand the information on members of congress and all appointees to high ranking positions made by Obama or anyone directly under his command.

I mean, if there is nothing to hide...

Why can't anyone with some public credibility ask some of these questions like this. Throw them a curve ball in an interview. Do something! What I wouldn't give to ask some people in high places just a single, basic, question.

Jean Charles DeMenezes, who was shot dead in London had got nothing to hide. Apparently the security forces were watching the building where he lived and thought he was a bad guy.
How may others?

reply to post by webpirate


Put 2 and 2 together.

for at least 11 years confirmed the NSA?GOVT has compiled mass amounts of data from everyone in America.

They know phone records, emails, text, credit cards, they have a file folder on everyone down to their political believes/religious believes.

They can and will use this information for their surveys to portray their desired outcome with a certain degree of variability due to the changing climate of the surveyors answer with each scandal.

These polls are only a sample poll, and merely reflect the entire nation.

Objects in mirror look closer than they appear.

Originally posted by cconn487
I'm okay with these programs...

If they check me out and find I am no threat to anybody, or National Security. Then I politely demand the information on members of congress and all appointees to high ranking positions made by Obama or anyone directly under his command.

I mean, if there is nothing to hide...

Why can't anyone with some public credibility ask some of these questions like this. Throw them a curve ball in an interview. Do something! What I wouldn't give to ask some people in high places just a single, basic, question.

edit on 13-6-2013 by cconn487 because: (no reason given)

There were people in Germany, many decades ago, that had your mentality.

They're just working overtime and weekends to make this whole thing go away, as if it never happened or something.

It's blowing into the level of scandal and outrage that brings down Governments in my opinion. Those in power see that by now and are scared. The people aren't just awake for this, they were already pissed. This has people seeing red and out for political blood on both sides.

A nation united is a politicians absolute worst nightmare. It's a nightmare, in part, we're seeing come to pass. Thank you NSA. Couldn't do it without ya!

reply to post by webpirate


They were snooping the entire time, and Boston still happened?

Obviously snooping doesn't work very well at preventing attacks like that.
Or they just false flagged it. Probably the latter.

I care about government criminal trespass and corruption.
I have never been polled by any of these organizations.
I think they just poll their favorite 5000 insiders. Crazy part is, half of their puppet pollsters even disagree with their own crap!

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
They're just working overtime and weekends to make this whole thing go away, as if it never happened or something.

It's blowing into the level of scandal and outrage that brings down Governments in my opinion. Those in power see that by now and are scared. The people aren't just awake for this, they were already pissed. This has people seeing red and out for political blood on both sides.

A nation united is a politicians absolute worst nightmare. It's a nightmare, in part, we're seeing come to pass. Thank you NSA. Couldn't do it without ya!

I will copy paste my post I made a few minutes ago in another thread:

"
I was just telling my wife, I am starting to think that the floodgates of the secrets are starting to open and everything is entering a new stage.

I told her to just keep watching the next few months, the Government goons are going to turn on each other and internal conflicts will destroy their organization and unity.

Simply because of their own fear that they themselves are on the chopping block next, will compel them to bring out dirt on others to vindicate themselves. Things like this I believe are starting to occur more rapidly and frequently, and it will only increase until the entire government becomes a complete unworkable mess.

Our government is beginning to collapse I am afraid, and this is just the opening phase.
"

THis post makes me so mad I could spit. NO ONE is down with you creeping into their conversations and emails. They may not be out on the curb with a pitchfork and a torch. But trust and believe everyone is pissed. Don't throw (not you OP, the MSM) your stinky lying polls at us trying to calm us all down. NO!!! America is not down with that.

Originally posted by GrantedBail
THis post makes me so mad I could spit. NO ONE is down with you creeping into their conversations and emails. They may not be out on the curb with a pitchfork and a torch. But trust and believe everyone is pissed. Don't throw (not you OP, the MSM) your stinky lying polls at us trying to calm us all down. NO!!! America is not down with that.

I don't know anyone that agrees with it.

They claimed our nation was 'by the people for the people', but instead it seems the nation is actually 'by the corporations for the elite'.

How can nearly everyone disagree with a policy in the USA, yet politicians and news stations can override that and decide they know better and the will of the people is illegitimate? Tyranny

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by webpirate

 

They were snooping the entire time, and Boston still happened?

Obviously snooping doesn't work very well at preventing attacks like that.
Or they just false flagged it. Probably the latter.
I have never been polled by any of these organizations.

Boston not only happened with snooping, but with snooping and intel these guys had radical views.

If you can't snoop with insider information and make it work, how is random snooping going to help? Snooping actually probably takes away from catching something. There are too many people working on nothing, and not enough looking into actual threats.

I've never been polled by any of these organizations either. They don't want my opinion. Then again with that said; I think we've all been polled by tptb.

Originally posted by supremecommander

Originally posted by cconn487
I'm okay with these programs...

If they check me out and find I am no threat to anybody, or National Security. Then I politely demand the information on members of congress and all appointees to high ranking positions made by Obama or anyone directly under his command.

I mean, if there is nothing to hide...

Why can't anyone with some public credibility ask some of these questions like this. Throw them a curve ball in an interview. Do something! What I wouldn't give to ask some people in high places just a single, basic, question.

edit on 13-6-2013 by cconn487 because: (no reason given)

There were people in Germany, many decades ago, that had your mentality.

You got me all wrong. I tried to get the sarcasm out, now re reading it it sounds like I support it. Boy couldn't be further from the truth. Been a long day and my sleep deprived brain is starting to make the action of getting thoughts to keyboard turn out to be a big mess.

I'm the guy that has been telling everyone for years CIA, DHS, FBI, pretty much every alphabet agency has been keeping tabs on facebook if not directly overseeing the whole thing. And to watch what they say on any social media.

Believe me, I'm tired of all this crap too.

Originally posted by cconn487

Originally posted by supremecommander

Originally posted by cconn487
I'm okay with these programs...

If they check me out and find I am no threat to anybody, or National Security. Then I politely demand the information on members of congress and all appointees to high ranking positions made by Obama or anyone directly under his command.

I mean, if there is nothing to hide...

Why can't anyone with some public credibility ask some of these questions like this. Throw them a curve ball in an interview. Do something! What I wouldn't give to ask some people in high places just a single, basic, question.

edit on 13-6-2013 by cconn487 because: (no reason given)

There were people in Germany, many decades ago, that had your mentality.

You got me all wrong. I tried to get the sarcasm out, now re reading it it sounds like I support it. Boy couldn't be further from the truth. Been a long day and my sleep deprived brain is starting to make the action of getting thoughts to keyboard turn out to be a big mess.

I'm the guy that has been telling everyone for years CIA, DHS, FBI, pretty much every alphabet agency has been keeping tabs on facebook if not directly overseeing the whole thing. And to watch what they say on any social media.

Believe me, I'm tired of all this crap too.

I could tell you were being facetious to make a point.
Point taken. I agree it's funny we never get to know anything about the Govt but the Govt gets to know everything about us? Double standards big time.

reply to post by muzzleflash

I was just telling my wife, I am starting to think that the floodgates of the secrets are starting to open and everything is entering a new stage.

I told her to just keep watching the next few months, the Government goons are going to turn on each other and internal conflicts will destroy their organization and unity.

I was just saying something similar on another thread. I'm not special and I've not been a part of anything that would shake anyone with much more than curiosity or a chuckle for how crazy life can be, depending on the area. However...I'm not unique, I'm SURE, in having come to know about things other people were a direct party to with support to prove such a thing......and you know what? I've spent over 2 years sitting on a real dark thing because I absolutely cannot be the first voice to talk about it. Again...I'm not special and I'm willing to bet scores of Americans across this nation are in precisely the same position I am.

Snowden's greatest legacy may not be what HE released but what he opened the door and showed the path for others to release. Oh..if only a couple subjects could break by others first, who would have the credibility to carry it those first few steps. Others who were IN it..and not just holding documents to support it. If only......and just maybe, it'll actually happen.

Can someone answer me a question as I'm not in the United States?

Is anyone doing anything about it? I don't mean online angry posting, or letters to the editor, I mean actual actions?

Is anything actually happening? Are things happening in your towns or on your streets? Or is it still at the Angry Tutting Stage?

(The Angry Tutting Stage(TM) will be where it ends in the UK, if we can even be bothered to get that far)

reply to post by khimbar


Not yet that I've seen. I think everyone is still unsure of how to take what's happening. I know I am. Is this what it appears? Are they really in control or have they lost control as it seems?

Assuming that the wrong direction could be a terminal thing depending on the action someone had in mind ...and I think we're all waiting for the other shoe to drop here in America.

At least what I sense here and hear others talking about in the RL...It's like we all kinda know there is more to come and another big side which hasn't popped yet. Good or Bad? Reaction or Initiative? I can't begin to guess ...but this hasn't even started to run it's course yet. This is the hunker down time to wait and see just what the sides really are....if sides there are to this thing.

For all we know, this could be a wild start to a coup. That's about the extreme of the conspiracy theory of course, but not so outlandish to what's happened in other nations (sometimes by the direct work of the agencies involved here) that it can be entirely discounted.

reply to post by khimbar


I wish I could afford to be in Turkey right now. Those people protested a park demolition not the demolition of their constitution.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Think about the word play and what it means.

What does a PRISM do? It Divides light into it's many colors.

What is PRISM doing to everyone in the context of this story?
Dividing them into their many colors.

It is an interesting coincidence I must say.

Originally posted by khimbar
Can someone answer me a question as I'm not in the United States?

Is anyone doing anything about it? I don't mean online angry posting, or letters to the editor, I mean actual actions?

Is anything actually happening? Are things happening in your towns or on your streets? Or is it still at the Angry Tutting Stage?

(The Angry Tutting Stage(TM) will be where it ends in the UK, if we can even be bothered to get that far)

Nothing significant aside of information sharing that I am aware of.

But this is a good sign in a lot of ways (while not so good in others).

One of the ways it is a good sign is that it shows our nation is stuck in a quagmire of quick sand.
The more we jerk around and move, the quicker we will get sucked in.

The key here is to not move at all and stay relaxed while a buddy finds us a rope and tosses it in.