Sin through the eyes of a child

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Doesn't repenting equal forgiveness of sin though? That means she overcame that particular sin.

No repenting does not equal forgiveness of sin. It's a combination of repentence and atonement. If she atones for her own sin, then she'll burn forever. Now that she has sinned and knows it, now she has to come to Jesus so he can cover over her sin with his blood. She might have stolen something or told lies, and tried to make amends and that is part of repentence, but whom she really sinned against was God and our only intercessor is Christ and Christ has to make that atonement for her by his blood and that is why his blood was shed for our sins.

I respect everyone's right to frame it in their own way, you AND the OP as well. That said, from my talks with God, I understand that God is Love, and that the Holy Spirit intercedes on our behalf. I also understand that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. So it makes perfect sense to me, that if the child (or anybody) is listening to the Holy Spirit within, they will be shown how to make sure God (Love) guides their actions. And when they stumble, by letting their selfish ego take over and steal an eraser, if they again listen with the heart of a child (openness/trust) to the Holy Spirit within, they will naturally be led to make retribution for their wrong-doing.

Personally, I do not believe Christ intended for us to focus on his death. I belief following in the footsteps of his Life on Earth is where it's at. Again, I am sharing this from my own personal relationship with God.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


What if I went in my backyard and slit a chickens throat then splashed its blood all over my head? Seems kind of crazy doesn't it? Now imagine doing that with a human being. Sounds a bit Satanic doesn't it?

Originally posted by new_here

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Doesn't repenting equal forgiveness of sin though? That means she overcame that particular sin.

No repenting does not equal forgiveness of sin. It's a combination of repentence and atonement. If she atones for her own sin, then she'll burn forever. Now that she has sinned and knows it, now she has to come to Jesus so he can cover over her sin with his blood. She might have stolen something or told lies, and tried to make amends and that is part of repentence, but whom she really sinned against was God and our only intercessor is Christ and Christ has to make that atonement for her by his blood and that is why his blood was shed for our sins.

I respect everyone's right to frame it in their own way, you AND the OP as well. That said, from my talks with God, I understand that God is Love, and that the Holy Spirit intercedes on our behalf. I also understand that the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. So it makes perfect sense to me, that if the child (or anybody) is listening to the Holy Spirit within, they will be shown how to make sure God (Love) guides their actions. And when they stumble, by letting their selfish ego take over and steal an eraser, if they again listen with the heart of a child (openness/trust) to the Holy Spirit within, they will naturally be led to make retribution for their wrong-doing.

Personally, I do not believe Christ intended for us to focus on his death. I belief following in the footsteps of his Life on Earth is where it's at. Again, I am sharing this from my own personal relationship with God.

Thank you, that was most beautiful, I will read her your replies and they will bring much joy to her heart. I agree with everything that you have said.

double post

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

What if I went in my backyard and slit a chickens throat then splashed its blood all over my head? Seems kind of crazy doesn't it? Now imagine doing that with a human being. Sounds a bit Satanic doesn't it?

To an ignorant person who doesn't understand that our Creator had to take our punishment himself to keep us from being destroyed, the creation he loved even above angels, it would sound satanic. He punished himself because we couldn't pay that debt.

reply to post by new_here

Personally, I do not believe Christ intended for us to focus on his death. I belief following in the footsteps of his Life on Earth is where it's at. Again, I am sharing this from my own personal relationship with God.

The truth is, he wants us to focus on both his life and his death, but his teaching was also in that his death would bring the despairing rest. Spelled out in the geneaology of names from Adam to Noah.



His life was to be an example on how to live righteously with justice and mercy.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by new_here

 

Personally, I do not believe Christ intended for us to focus on his death. I belief following in the footsteps of his Life on Earth is where it's at. Again, I am sharing this from my own personal relationship with God.

The truth is, he wants us to focus on both his life and his death, but his teaching was also in that his death would bring the despairing rest. Spelled out in the geneaology of names from Adam to Noah.

His life was to be an example on how to live righteously with justice and mercy.

I put those names into google translate: Hebrew to English, then Arabic to English, and did not get those meanings you impart to them. Just sayin...

From my talks with God, believing in Jesus mean: believing he incarnated on this Earth; believing his words are Truth; believing that following his teachings leads to salvation. I do believe he knew he would be killed-- he said so. I do not see how his murder can be glorified. Think of all the further impact he would have had, all the more words he could have said, had he lived to a ripe old age!!! I believed he lived to show us the way; and he died because cruel people who felt threatened and insecure murdered him. I am not happy about it.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

What if I went in my backyard and slit a chickens throat then splashed its blood all over my head? Seems kind of crazy doesn't it? Now imagine doing that with a human being. Sounds a bit Satanic doesn't it?

To an ignorant person who doesn't understand that our Creator had to take our punishment himself to keep us from being destroyed, the creation he loved even above angels, it would sound satanic. He punished himself because we couldn't pay that debt.

Why can't the two of you "see"? Some can listen to the spirit of love, the light within, and believe that God loves us without ever looking at a bible. Others need a man to sacrifice himself for love to prove to us that we our loved.

3NL1GHT3N3D1 - you simply will never convince the man that needs to know that the "son" was willing to lay his life down for love, so they can believe in love. This is the only doorway for some, the resurrection. Some only have faith in the "Super Hero", and it is the resurrection that provides them the trust that it takes to open the door.

If I push my brother out of the way of the bus and allow myself to be killed by the bus, was this Satanic? I sacrificed my life for my brother. Now imagine before I pushed my brother out of the way God came to me in an undeniable vision that showed that I was in heaven 3 days after my sacrifice, what did I sacrifice? Rather what I did was prove to you that I choose to love my brother even in the face of physical pain, because I knew that death itself had no power over me. This is not Satanic and this is how I see Christ's sacrifice.

lonewolf19792000 - you will never convince the man who has become one with "the Spirit of Love" that they need someone to die for them. They have listened to what is within and overcome.

Both of you should try to understand these concepts.

Jesus said he came to save the sinner; the sinner is the one who is chained to sin, by his addiction to it. He is unable to break the chains. The sacrifice and resurrection provide the power needed to break the chains and more willfully pursue love. Lonewolf even shows how it says his death will bring those in despair comfort and rest.

lonewolf19792000 - you will never understand fully understand, 3NL1GHT3N3D1, myself or Paul unless you open up to the fact that Jesus is the Savior of "ALL MEN", especially believers. You must also allow that "Spirit of Love" can and will come to anyone who obeys love. Some men don't need Christ in the way you do. This is not to say they don’t need the "Spirit of Love", Christ Jesus, it just means that Christ revealed himself differently than he did to you.

You cannot own the "Spirit of Love" and there is no ritual that will bring you closer to the "Spirit of Love", the only way to find the spirit "within" is to do what our "Super Hero" Christ said, so he will be proud of us. Overcome your emotions, let go of fear and judgments, choose love.

Believing in Christ is not necessary for the salvation you are waiting for; Jesus said that anyone who spoke against him would be forgiven. If Christ says all who speak against Christ will be forgiven and later it says Jesus is the savior of "ALL MEN" then we know that Christ's sacrifice was sufficient to save "ALL MEN". This is universalism, there is no other way to look at this.

As a believer you have access to the power of the "Holy Spirit", but so does 3NL1GHT3N3D1 since he followed the teaching of Christ. Do you see all will be saved in the end because Christ's died once for All, to save ALL men? However, not all will be "born again" in this life, many will choose not to obey the commands to love one another, and to turn the other cheek from all sin. They will not find the love of God in this life, because they did not look for it. But God is faithful even to those who have no faith, his son was a sacrifice for "ALL" just like the bible says.

reply to post by sacgamer25

lonewolf19792000 - you will never convince the man who has become one with "the Spirit of Love" that they need someone to die for them. They have listened to what is within and overcome.

I see very well, but thanks for your concern. See, you say one thing, but that "spirit of love" came here teaching he would die for our sins as spoken by the prophets. So you say one thing and he says something else.

You also still have a problem equating Christ to the greek god Eros. I'm not the one who doesn't understand him, it's you who doesn't understand him. Your spirit of love laid waste to 4-5 different cities because they were profoundly evil, or have you never read the Torah? You take the NT and ignore everything else that came before that gives you clues as to who he is. So don't tell me i don't know, i know much more than you do sir. Or have you forgotten how he preached in parables so the pharisees couldn't understand and recieve salvation? Go read Matthew 25 when the Son of Man judges the nations (Yom Kippur) goats on the left, sheep on the right, goats get to go into the desolation. He came to save mankind indeed, but not all people shall be saved.

Whosoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:11-13

11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

reply to post by sacgamer25


You have no proof the resurrection ever happened save for a few pages in a book written 2,000 years ago which are based on hearsay. They want you to believe Jesus rose from the dead in the same body in order to make you feel inferior and make him seem superior.

Jesus didn't rise from the dead after 3 days into the same body, the idea is preposterous and has never been observed apart from Jesus. Unless of course you take Osiris, Dionysus, and Bacchus rising from the dead as fact too, otherwise Jesus is the only person in history to ever rise from the dead, and that's ignoring those other three gods who supposedly did the same. Oh, and it's ignoring all those people Jesus supposedly raised from the dead as well.

If you think Jesus is somehow special for rising from the dead, you are ignoring all the others who supposedly rose from the dead. If you acknowledge those other people then Jesus isn't so special after all.

reply to post by new_here

I do not see how his murder can be glorified.

John 10:11-18

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

No one "murdered" him, he came to give it willingly and he said it himself and you deny him glory by denying he came to die for us.

Daniel 9:26

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

He didn't die for anything he had done. He was "cut off" for our sakes.

John 12:32-36

32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” 33 This He said, signifying by what death He would die.

34 The people answered Him, “We have heard from the law that the Christ remains forever; and how can You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?”

35 Then Jesus said to them, “A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. 36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them.

Drawing all the nations to him was glorifying. He was indeed glorified at his crucifiction, and this story spread like a brushfire in a hot summer wind.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

crucifiction

Nicely put.

Anyways, if Jesus knew he would die and did it willingly and knew why he was doing it, then why did he ask why God had forsaken him on the cross?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

John 10:11-18

11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. 12 But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. 13 The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

I'm not denying he knew "the wolves" would come after him. His message was a threat to their power. Anybody who threatens the status quo knows there is always that risk (though I don't doubt he could see the future!)

But just as a shepherd goes out into the field for the purpose of leading his flock, not for the purpose of dying... I believe Jesus incarnated to lead us to the light. Being murdered was the risk he took, and he did not flee his sheep when the danger arose, just as any good shepherd does not flee from danger to save his own skin when wolves approach.

reply to post by new_here


I agree with this. Nicely put.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

crucifiction

Nicely put.

Anyways, if Jesus knew he would die and did it willingly and knew why he was doing it, then why did he ask why God had forsaken him on the cross?

edit on 13-6-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Fulfilling prophecy, right up to the end. Taking the sin of the world onto himself, the presence of God in him fled from him because God cannot abide sin and he will not stay present in a vessel that was covered in the sins of the world. It must have felt like having is soul torn from his body.

Since you believe it is fiction, i have no more need to waste further pearls on you. Good day.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


So where did that sin go once he was resurrected? Did it just disappear into thin air? Why couldn't god have made it disappear without killing himself?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by new_here

 

I agree with this. Nicely put.

Why thank you!

To be clear, I do not expect everyone to agree with the sum total of my spiritual Truths (even you, 3NL1GHT3N3D1, would likely deviate from SOMETHING I believe) because the point, to me, is to "seek and ye shall find" --which in my opinion means God gives us what we need on this Earth to make it thru to the other side-- if we can just be still and listen with the heart of a child. Like someone else said, some may NEED to believe Jesus came here for the ultimate sacrifice, whereas I believe it was a sad, cruel ending to a beautiful life, period. But I'm not out to change anybody else's spiritual Truths. (To me, they are sacred and personal and not for me to condemn.) "Seek and ye shall find" does not, IMO, mean: change your beliefs during discourse with a fellow human. That is why I keep saying "I believe" --I am not the authority on anyone else's relationship with God.

reply to post by new_here


Thank you for your help. You have a beautiful way of saying things.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by new_here

 

Thank you for your help. You have a beautiful way of saying things.

Thank YOU for that kind affirmation. I am honored you find something helpful in what I wrote.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


You see "Religion" and "Ritual", if you could see you would look past these things. Listen to one who truly is "born again", I am not here to take Christ away from you, but I am here to give power to his words.

There is only one thing to change about your religion and you will find the truth. You must believe that Christ loves everyone, He loves the lost sheep and rejoices over them, more so than he does the ones who are not lost. Everyone who does not believe that Christ speaks the truth about love is lost.

Listen to the discussions I am having with those who believe that Christ was an enlightened man, a teacher, one who teaches others how to become enlightened, "born again", to be filled with light. We all have different opinions about his death and authority but we all agree to do what he said. How can someone who says we should all live like Christ be against Christ?

You have to accept that Christ loves everyone all will be saved. It is ok to accept universalism and still feel like you have a special place as a Christian. If you accept universalism than what it means to be a Christian will be to save others by loving them to the point of giving your life up to save theirs. The point is not religion, the point is live like Christ and people will notice and they will want the love that is inside of you.

Everyone you talk to is going to heaven, now try to teach them how to find the "Spirit of Love" within. Do not be afraid to Give Christ freely to the world as freely he is given to you, without judgment, he will still be in you.

If you can claim that the father has forgiven you than he has forgiven everyone, since none deserve. If one is not forgiven than all are not forgiven. Therefore all are forgiven.

1John 5 36:40 36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Jesus was telling the Pharisees that they had searched for a ritual that would get them into heaven, but they never listened to the Spirit of Love, that was in the mouths of the profits, and in and around them. Because of their guilt a veil remained over their eyes. Until one releases the guilt, one cannot see. Everyone is saved in the end, this is the promise, live your life by it.