The Zimmerman Trial

reply to post by Libertygal


You call that research? There is nothing in either video that suggests Trayvon was likely to carry out a random attack on a complete stranger.

Here we go .... Lead Investigator Serino back on the stand.

Yesterday he admitted that he lied during the questioning of Zimmerman.
Yesterday he admitted that he found Zimmerman 'believable'.
He didn't want to press charges, but then wanted Manslaughter, but then said he didn't.
We have to clear that all up Maybe today.
This prosecution witness ended up being kind of in the middle yesterday ...
Not really a score for either the prosecution or the defense. .... so far. IMHO

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
There is nothing in either video that suggests Trayvon was likely to carry out a random attack on a complete stranger.

And you have no evidence that suggests that Zimmerman would likely carry out a random attack on a complete stranger either.

Side note ... the Martin tapes have been scrubbed from the internet.
It's unlikely that anyone will be able to find them now.

Originally posted by Libertygal

Originally posted by Minus

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by Minus

 

So, you've got Trayvon reffing a fight - something which strikes me as rather honourable, rather than something a complete thug would be interested in, and a rumour that he hit a busdriver, backed up by a video of busdrivers being attacked, but not one of Trayvon attacking a busdriver, which should have been recorded and reported? Anything more substantial?

You asked for video's, i was just so kind to surply it, dont hate me for that.

the busdriver part was about Trayvons older brother - a very close family member.

People can do their own research, just like you did.

So true

take the videos and add it with the text messages that was released and its not so hard to comprehend that he is likely to have attacked zimmerman after all.
Tr ayvons text messages

reply to post by FlyersFan


What do you predict the final verdict of the court will be Flyers?, I have been reading through your debate logic which presents a sound case that Zimmerman should be cleared of any murder charges.

reply to post by AthlonSavage

Murder 2 = Not guilty. I don't know if the jury feels pressure to come in with 'something' so that is a wild card. Zimmerman might be guilty of manslaughter, but I haven't seen enough evidence void of 'reasonable doubt' to get a conviction on that ... (yet?)

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
So, still no videos actually showing Trayvon in a fight, and no evidence he ever assaulted a bus driver, other than a Twitter comment.

That's not true. I posted evidence yesterday of the willful coverup of Trayvon's crimes, I do believe the assault on the bus driver was mentioned as being one of his suspensions in the Washington Times article. The research was done on the coverup by the police by a writer at theconservativetreehouse, who obtained FOIA documents.

c.washingtontimes.com...

Again, there is a lot of evidence out there. Go find it yourself.

Looks like you have formed a lot of opinion with little to no education on the subject matter at hand.

Many of the original information was scrubbed in an attempt to keep the angelic Trayvon image the lawyers and media tried to.portray, but if you look hard enough, without the blinders on, it's there.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I agree. Didn't I read something about Florida not being able to just throw in a lesser charge now, ie: manslaughter?

They either get murder 2 or aquit? Someone was posting last night, and I think the judge can change it, but it is not automatic in Florida.

Double jeopardy laws will then prevent a second trial for manslaughter.

I think the outcome will be identical to the Casey Anthony trial, not enough evidence, and certainly a shaxow of doubt exists.

Originally posted by Libertygal
Didn't I read something about Florida not being able to just throw in a lesser charge now, ie: manslaughter?

THe judge has the option of adding it at the end of the trial when the jury goes to decide the case.
That was listed by the 'talking heads' at the blog that is running of this at the live feed.

reply to post by Libertygal

Didn't I read something about Florida not being able to just throw in a lesser charge now, ie: manslaughter?

I thought I read that Florida is a state where lessor convictions are in play without actual charges for them.

The state is trying to get Serino testimony thrown out. The part where Serino is asked if Zimmerman was a pathological liar and Serino said no, he found Zimmemrman credible.

The state is doing damage control. They failed to object to this yesterday.

Serino also said that Zimmermans testimony was credible because it showed it wasn't scripted or rehearsed. Zimmerman told his story five times and there were little inconsistencies in the stories ... which is expected and none of them were substantial. Bottom line ... Lead Investigator Serino believed Zimmerman and the prosecution doesn't like the fact that the jury heard this.

Waiting on court decision to see if the judge will throw out that part of Serino's testimony ....

ETA .. I find it amazing that the Prosecution is, once again, trying to discredit it's own witness.

JUDGE DECISION - tossed out statement.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Again .. yes ... we get it ... race race race.

What does that even mean?

I think Zimmerman saw Martin and thought, yeah, black kid, dodgy. You think he didn't. Neither of us knows, but you must admit that my suspicion is not beyond plausibility. And hand waving it away won't wash.

You likewise don't have any evidence for any wrongdoing on Zimmermans part, but you're choosing to find some because ... well, I don't know why. You're even trying to prentend he's guilty of a crime he cannot possibly have committed. You assume Zimmerman is guilty of being a racial bigot and that his motives were based on that, even without any proof of it.

But I'm fully aware that what I think isn't part of the trial, and I wouldn't use it to affect the decision on his guilt. As I say, it's what I suspect.

You, on the other hand, are trying to put together the most threadbare evidence - from a disreputable source - to exonerate Zimmerman by smearing Martin. You're even mistaken about the character of a law that only his killer says he broke!

And no .. I didn't say Martin was guilty of peeping or loitering or whatever. I said that his behavior fit a pattern enough that it was feasible for a neighborhood watchman to call it in to 911. I never said Martin was guilty of it .

Sophistry.

Automatic inclusion of lessor charges

Didn't find the original source but this one states the same.

It is actually quite common for a prosecutor to go for the highest level charge she feels she can prove, with the understanding that if she cannot prove the greatest charge, a lower charge might stick with the jury. Now, this isn’t always the case. In some states the prosecutor must specifically state all charges, but Florida allows for automatic inclusion of lesser included offenses.

What are the Included Offenses of Murder in Florida?

First degree murder (premeditated) 782.04(1)
Second degree murder (Depraved mind) 782.04(2) – Zimmerman’s charge
Manslaughter 782.07
Second degree (felony murder) 782.04(3)
Third degree murder (felony) 782.04(4)
Vehicular homicide 782.071

After the above six charges come the non-homicide lesser included offenses. They are:

Attempt
Culpable negligence
Aggravated battery
Aggravated assault
Battery and assault

So, essentially, Zimmerman is charged with each of the crimes from second degree murder on down, except of course for any crimes that are clearly not relevant, such as vehicular homicide.

Link

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Martins father didnt even know his son was missing until the next morning after the shooting.

That's not that weird though. He wasn't six years old.

Originally posted by JuniorDisco
What does that even mean?

Really? You don't get it? Race race race. Think about it.

You, on the other hand, are trying to put together the most threadbare evidence - from a disreputable source - to exonerate Zimmerman by smearing Martin.

.... says the person who ASSUMES Zimmerman is a racist pig. And dude .. I haven't exonerated Zimmerman. I've said very clearly that I think he may be guilty of Manslaughter but that there probably isn't enough court worthy evidence to get a conviction.

So epic fail on your part.

Sophistry.

A plausible but misleading or fallacious argument .... (for those who don't know the word)
:shk: Wrong. Just the facts. No red herrings.

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Martins father didnt even know his son was missing until the next morning after the shooting.

That's not that weird though. He wasn't six years old.

An underage teenager ... not coming home all night ... the father not noticing his kid was missing. Of course that's strange. I dont know what kind of world you are used to, but this is absolutely not 'normal'.

The mother had nothing to do with Martin for years. The step mother raised him but she's been out of his life because the daddy had moved on to another woman. The other woman who is now a fiance doesn't have anything to do with Martin. The father didn't even know his son was missing. It's not a close family even though the prosecution wants people to think it is.

But none of that matters. It doesn't say who attacked who ... Zimmerman or Martin ... we dont know who did the attacking.

reply to post by FlyersFan

JUDGE DECISION - tossed out statement.

Doesn't matter, damage was already done. And by the judge telling the jury to forget what they heard, well, that isn't going to happen. It will still be in the back of their mind.

Prosecution team stinking up the place.


Peace

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by MrWendal

 

It does matter because it could explain WHY he looked so suspicious. It could explain why it took him an hour to make a .6 mile trip. It could explain what he was doing meeting those three guys outside of the gas station (he waited several minutes after he bought his items [or ingredients whichever]).

Did Zimmerman know it took him an hour to make a .6 mile trip? No

Did Zimmerman know that he met 3 guys outside a gas station? No.

Zimmerman explains very clearly WHY Trayvon looks "suspicious". He was suspicious cause Zimmerman claimed he knew everyone who lived in the gated community and he never had seen Trayvon before. He explained that Trayvon was walking in the rain and did not appear to be in any hurry to get out of the rain. He explain that Trayvon was looking around AT the houses (not IN the houses, but AT the houses). This is why Zimmerman thought Trayvon looked suspicious.

Was Trayvon found with drugs on his person? No.

Was Trayvon found with a weapon? No

Did Trayvon have any "ingredients" used for making drugs? No.


Trayvon's history has no bearing on Zimmerman's state of mind at the time of the shooting because Zimmerman had no idea who he was. Zimmerman didn't know Trayvon had fights at school. So this would play no part on the way Zimmerman viewed Trayvon.

I got news for you, meeting 3 guys outside a gas station is not "suspicious" no matter how much you would like to pretend it is. I walk to my local corner store almost every day. Just yesterday, I stood outside that store after making my purchases talking to 2 people for about 20 minutes. Why? Because I was reading the cover of a newspaper that was in a machine. One guy made a comment to me about the story on the front page that I was reading, we started talking and a second guy overheard us and began talking with us both. I didn't know them, but we talked anyway. It was a rather pleasant conversation and then I went about my way. Does that make me suspicious?

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by conspiracy nut

 

If you were asked to go in depth on those alleged events people would see that they weren't as severe as you make them sound. The first incidences were dropped (the one with the wife was a mutual thing, the cop was beating up his friend, the woman was while he was a security guard so she was likely doing something she shouldn't have been, and the final thing is alleged and wasn't alleged until AFTER this case came about).

I love how you make excuses for Zimmerman. Any incident he is involved in is not as severe as they sound, but when talking about Trayvon... they are all serious? Every incident means something?

How can you not see the double standard here?

Prosecution is harping on zimmermans language about F'n punks.
(lame .. so what? It's probably accurate about those breaking in the area)
I wonder if defense will bring in Martins' 'crazy ass cracker' racial slur.
None of this has anything to do with the shooting that night.
Prosecution is really reaching.

The judge is now allowing Serino to give his opinon that Zimmerman profiled ...
but this is in direct opposition to her ruling this morning that Serino couldn't
give his opinion that Zimmerman told the truth during the Serino interview.