The Zimmerman Trial

reply to post by IvanAstikov

The forensic evidence that showed Zimmermans face and head beaten up ... fresh blood dripping .. broken nose ... beaten up so badly that his own neighbor couldn't recognize him or ID him at the scene ... along with eyewitness testimony from John Good stating that Martin was on top pounding away and Zimmerman was on the bottom.

GROUND AND POUND. Its' been established. Both eyewitness and forensic evidence.

In Florida, once some actually touches a person it is battery. Assault is verbal or actions before physical contact.

Florida Assault Laws

You may be facing this charge if you are accused of intentionally threatening someone (by word or action) with physical harm. Whether or not you follow through on the threat, it must be possible and put the victim in fear that it is about to happen.

Aggravated Assault Laws in Florida

One step above assault is aggravated assault. This offense is an assault (as defined above involving a threat) which is committed with a deadly weapon or which is committed or with the intent to commit a felony.

Florida Battery Laws

The crime of battery is different from assault in that it involves physical contact and not just threats of harm. You may be charged with this offense if you are accused of intentionally striking or touching someone without their consent, or if you intentionally cause bodily harm to another.[/ex[

Originally posted by FlyersFan

It doesn't have to be proven. Martins behavior fits the description of prowling close enough that it is feasible for a neighborhood watchman to call in to police that a person is prowling.

According to the guy who killed him.

Can you really not see the problem there?

The point is .. you said it wasn't illegal to look in windows.
I gave three examples from Florida law that say it is illegal.
Voyeurism, prowling, and loitering.

Actually even on this general point you're wrong. For voyeurism the viewer has to be operating in secret (Martin wasn't) and has to have lewd or lascivious intent (which you can't prove). And the prowling and loitering statutes don't mention looking in windows at all.

My suspicion, as I say, is that Zimmerman saw Martin's attire and ethnicity and assumed he was up to no good. I don't have evidence for this, but I'm not the court and I don't need it.

You likewise don't have evidence for any wrongdoing on Martin's part, but you're choosing to find some because... well, I don't know why. You're even trying to pretend he's guilty of a crime he cannot possibly have committed.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Is there any evidence that Zimmerman was actually any good at fighting? No. Do you see the double standard that you are employing here? You assume Zimmerman was some fantastic fighter and you dismiss that Martin was the one who actually got into the street fights. The fact that Martin was beating up Zimmerman tells us clearly that Martin was a better fighter. It's pretty obvious ....

I don't dismiss the possibility that Martin was involved in some kind of organised street fighting scene. What I'm querying is whether there is ANY evidence apart from Zimmerman's wounds, that he could actually fight, especially against a full grown adult male who might, for all you or I know, have been a beast in the gym.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


How about pm'ing me a link if you know of other sources?

this is the only video i cant find of an actual streetfight of Martin


quote form link"It was discovered in the tweets of Trayvon Martin's older brother that he had swung his fist on a bus driver"
combined with the first link, it make sence that martin was a potentionel very violent person


What do you think out there?

reply to post by roadgravel

So, George would only need to place his hand on Trayvon to halt his motion, and Trayvon had a right to defend himself from imminent attack, right? Why are you so willing to believe one person you don't know beat the crap out of a harmless, conscienscious citizen, yet you can't accept the possibility that another person you don't know tried to detain a suspected burglar who was too dumb to run?

Originally posted by JuniorDisco
My suspicion, as I say, is that Zimmerman saw Martin's attire and ethnicity and assumed he was up to no good.

Again .. yes ... we get it ... race race race.

You likewise don't have evidence for any wrongdoing on Martin's part, but you're choosing to find some because... well, I don't know why. You're even trying to pretend he's guilty of a crime he cannot possibly have committed.

You likewise don't have any evidence for any wrongdoing on Zimmermans part, but you're choosing to find some because ... well, I don't know why. You're even trying to prentend he's guilty of a crime he cannot possibly have committed. You assume Zimmerman is guilty of being a racial bigot and that his motives were based on that, even without any proof of it.

And no .. I didn't say Martin was guilty of peeping or loitering or whatever. I said that his behavior fit a pattern enough that it was feasible for a neighborhood watchman to call it in to 911. I never said Martin was guilty of it .

www.abovetopsecret.com...

As I said last night, and for those that missed it, the best takeaway from the trial yesterday, except for the closing remark that when asked if Serino thought George was telling the truth, he replies, "Yes".

*Gavel*

Here is that takeaway:

O’Mara noted, however, that in fact the extent of injuries
don’t matter for purposes of self-defense, and Serino agreed. “In fact,”
observed O’Mara,” we don’t need to see life-threatening injuires, not any
injuries, dow we?” “No, sir,” answered Serino.

All George had to do was state that he had a reasonable fear of his life beingin danger.

I don't care who the better fighter was, who was or wasn't trained. It doesn't matter.

The extent of his injuries don't matter. They didn't have to appear, "Not so bad" to the public.

All that matters then, and now, was if George feared for his life.

It is all that is required under the self defense rule.

Everything else is blather from the state desperately trying to find something, and in doing so, are continuously turning tbeir own witnesses to the defense.

reply to post by IvanAstikov

A beast in the gym ... or a flubbering mess .. or anything in between.
I don't know why you assume he could have been a beast in the gym.
A 'skinny little boy of 17' was able to get on top of him and beat the snot out of him.

Originally posted by Libertygal

I answered your post with a legal reply. Yes, technically, the description of his behavior WAS illegal.

You shot my mother.

My description of your behaviour now shows it to be illegal. I imagine I can shoot you now? Is that right?

Sorry this doesn't fit into your sickening race- driven agenda.

I know it's sickening that you can't just walk free after shooting a teenager who you assumed was up to no good. But you know these guys, they're always complaining, aren't they? They complained about good, honest work in the cotton fields too. Entitled, that's what they are.

Have fun with your self imposed race war.

Luckily I don't live in your country. And it's not me stacking up on ammo and getting all excited about shooting a few black people, or calling Martin's death a "good kill", or suggesting Kel-Tec use his killing as an advert for their guns (all of which are in this very thread).

And weirdly it's not black people either. So I'm not sure who it is who's really itching for that race war.

reply to post by Minus


So, you've got Trayvon reffing a fight - something which strikes me as rather honourable, rather than something a complete thug would be interested in, and a rumour that he hit a busdriver, backed up by a video of busdrivers being attacked, but not one of Trayvon attacking a busdriver, which should have been recorded and reported? Anything more substantial?

Originally posted by Libertygal
All George had to do was state that he had a reasonable fear of his life beingin danger.

Yep.

I don't care who the better fighter was, who was or wasn't trained. It doesn't matter.

Yep. Red herring.

That pretty much sums it up.


OKAY FOLKS - for those who want a live feed .... www.wftv.com...
Trial starts today at 8:45 .... All rise, court is in session ...

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by roadgravel

 

So, George would only need to place his hand on Trayvon to halt his motion, and Trayvon had a right to defend himself from imminent attack, right? Why are you so willing to believe one person you don't know beat the crap out of a harmless, conscienscious citizen, yet you can't accept the possibility that another person you don't know tried to detain a burglar who was too dumb to run?

Wow.

I am just posting info to clear up misconceptions with the law. My take is evidence is properly presented or a person is not convicted. This can go either way but if the system is working on emotion, not fact, we are all in big trouble.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

A beast in the gym ... or a flubbering mess .. or anything in between.
I don't know why you assume he could have been a beast in the gym.
A 'skinny little boy of 17' was able to get on top of him and beat the snot out of him.

That is far from proven beyond reasonable doubt, so give it a rest. I am not assuming he was a beast in the gym, I would just like to know whether it was the case, or not. Don't you?

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by Minus

 

So, you've got Trayvon reffing a fight - something which strikes me as rather honourable, rather than something a complete thug would be interested in, and a rumour that he hit a busdriver, backed up by a video of busdrivers being attacked, but not one of Trayvon attacking a busdriver, which should have been recorded and reported? Anything more substantial?

You asked for video's, i was just so kind to surply it, dont hate me for that.

the busdriver part was about Trayvons older brother - a very close family member.

reply to post by Minus


That top video is Trayvon reffing, refeteeing, a fight. He is with the older kids standing and cheering it on. The other videos, with him fighting are on the same location, howevsr, and other places, if they have not been scrubbed.

The one of him recording the people attacking the guy on the bike made national news, Mediate carried that one.

I was going to link to it for those intetested in hearing Trayvons' voice now that they have heard George's, but decided againstit because it is violent. People can go find it, if they wish.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
That is far from proven beyond reasonable doubt, so give it a rest

*sigh* (again). It HAS been proven. Forensics and eyewitness sworn testimony.
Sorry that you dont' like the FACT that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating him up.
But there it is. It's indisputable.
The ONLY question that remains is ... who started it? And we won't ever know.

I am not assuming he was a beast in the gym, I would just like to know whether it was the case, or not. Don't you?

I don't think it matters that Martin and Zimmerman were BOTH involved in fighting.
Zimmerman through classes. Martin through street fighting.
Looks like Martins street fighting won out over Zimmermans classes
But It doesnt' matter and has no bearing on what happened the night of the shooting.
Who started the fight is the only thing that matters. And we won't ever know.

Originally posted by Minus

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by Minus

 

So, you've got Trayvon reffing a fight - something which strikes me as rather honourable, rather than something a complete thug would be interested in, and a rumour that he hit a busdriver, backed up by a video of busdrivers being attacked, but not one of Trayvon attacking a busdriver, which should have been recorded and reported? Anything more substantial?

You asked for video's, i was just so kind to surply it, dont hate me for that.

the busdriver part was about Trayvons older brother - a very close family member.

People can do their own research, just like you did.

reply to post by Libertygal

Kinda makes you wonder about the fact that Martins street fights have been scrubbed from the social media sites. The prosecution has done a good job of trying to clean up Martin and make Martins 'thuggery' go away. Just like the prosecution has done a good job of trying to make Martins family look 'all american' and nice with the parents being in court each day sitting nicely together. When in fact Martins mother hadn't had anything to do with Martin for years and Martins father didnt even know his son was missing until the next morning after the shooting.

So, still no videos actually showing Trayvon in a fight, and no evidence he ever assaulted a bus driver, other than a Twitter comment.