The Black Knight Satellite

Originally posted by SheopleNation

Originally posted by InhaleExhale

What

didn't you just post this earlier in the same post

Yep, sure did.

How did you conclude its size if you are asking for any credible info regarding its size?

Because unless it's right in front of me, or if NASA possibly has provided the true size of this object in the past, I don't know if my conclusions are valid, understand?

It's called making an assumption, while recognizing that my assumption may be in error, which means possibly not being credible. Anyway, I hope that remedies your confusion on the matter. ~$heopleNation

No I don't understand, what were you basing your conclusions on to say

but after researching it for so long I came to the conclusion that it's much too large to be a piece of space junk. Course it could be, but I just feel that it isn't.

Space junk can be a decommissioned satellite, can be quite large.

I think it could confuse readers and make them ask questions like I have on how you made any conclusions as to what size it is and why it cant be junk if its big.

If you would have said you speculated that its too big to be space junk then that would imply your making an assumption, however, when conclusions are made especially after implying research has been done it gives the impression its gone the past the speculating point and into calculating a conclusive answer.

reply to post by InhaleExhale


The pic only clouds the issue, I'm afraid. I wish I had never included it (but I had not come across the astronaut comments previously), as it seems to overshadow the more important idea, which is the reports of a satellite prior to Sputnik.

Personally, I think that the mission astronaut comments regarding the thermal cover can sufficiently explain the object in the photos (see pg 15). The real interest (for me) of the Black Knight story is more about the very notion of a satellite being up there before Sputnik. The pic was originally included as it was alleged by many to be the satellite. Like the stories about alien transmissions, the NASA pic is really detracting from the real interesting part of this story.

reply to post by Gazrok

The real interest (for me) of the Black Knight story is more about the very notion of a satellite being up there before Sputnik.

That's one of the things that makes the tale interesting. However, there really is no evidence (except for Keyhoe's questionable claim) that there was.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Personally, I think that the mission astronaut comments regarding the thermal cover can sufficiently explain the object in the photos (see pg 15). The real interest (for me) of the Black Knight story is more about the very notion of a satellite being up there before Sputnik. The pic was originally included as it was alleged by many to be the satellite. Like the stories about alien transmissions, the NASA pic is really detracting from the real interesting part of this story.

This is a genuine mystery of early space history, and cracking it has to rely on HOW observations were made of space, to look for satellites. It wasn't obvious then what would work.

Radar was around for observing aircraft, and radar pulses had been bounced off the moon, but developing radar to track much-smaller-than-airplane bogies at much-faster-than-airplane speeds and much-higher-than-airplane altitudes [where echo signal strength dropped off in an inverse FOURTH power mode] was a far from trivial task. Stretching sensitivity to detect smallest objects was a recipe for ghosting and equipment-generated false returns.

The most reliable method chosen in the mid-1950s was human eyeballs. Teams of observers were recruited and trained at various US cities, in anticipation of the Vanguard launches aimed for 1958. But nobody could be sure what a satellite would LOOK like aside from being a dim moving dot. That many of them 'pulsed' wasn't realized until after some had actually been launched -- and the apparent fact that nobody reported the pre-sputnik phantom satellites as ever pulsing is an indirect indication that what was being observed was different from later, genuine satellites.

A lot of the reports, such as those from the U of Chicago, can also be in hindsight as 'stuff-we-NOW-know-didn't-look-like-satellites-turned-OUT-to-look-like". Their ground tracks varied too much, their visibility beyond the brief dawn/dusk opportunity zone was too blatant, their angular rates were inconsistent with actual low-Earth-orbit motion.

You can call them 'UFOs' if you like, but how they looked different from random high-flying aircraft is impossible to define. You couldn't tell just be seeing them in the sky -- all you saw was a dimensionless dot.

But you gotta keep watching. I'm open to the idea that 1991-VG and similar amazing detections are returning Apollo-era spacecraft/booster hardware. And at some point we may spot Arthur Clarke's 'Rama'. Filtering it out from the noise and garble is important, so these discussions here are important. Debate long, and prosper.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

but something of a 32 ,000 pound space junk that was detected in in th 20s 30s 40-s and 50s when satilights did not exist 1 IS KINDA FISHY

What's fishy is the 32,000 pound claim and where it came from. Any information about that? The OP seems to have gone missing for now so can't respond to questions about it.

And where did you get the 20s 30s and 40s from? What was detected back then? Nothing in the OP about that.

edit on 6/2/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

See the videos ive posted about what people ((( CLAIM ))) about the black knight as one of the video show about the claimns what was detected in the 20s 30s 40s etc...


here read this a some what prototype space station ( research lab ) built in 1964 on a testing run in a pressure chamber
28 feet long 14 foot wide and ( 32,000 pounds ) see pdf below as the Black knight as some claim is 32,000 and 19 feet long ...

Hmm insteresting ...

July 14, 2000 Vol. 39, No. 14 Spaceport News - NASA - Home
http%3a//www.nasa.gov/centers/kennedy/pdf/67301main_jul14.pdf


tho the NASA Space Shuttle can Handle a 32,000 payload

well these are not Legit Sites like NASA or Space.com etc

Conspiracy Sites
this is thier Claim ...

Forbidden History ::: "Black Knight" Satellite
forbiddenhistory.info.../57

What is the "Black Knight" satellite? It is a mysterious satellite, of unknown origin, discovered in 1960 which shadowed Sputnik. It is believed to have been of extraterrestrial origin, and signaled back old radio waves from the 1920s and 1930s before it disappeared. In short wave patterns analyzed by astronomer Duncan Lunan, it revealed its origin as Epsilon Boötes (or the star system as it was 13,000 years ago).

n "Disneyland of the Gods", by John Keel, he reports in depth on this satellite: "In February 1960 the US detected an unknown object in polar orbit, a feat that neither they or the USSR had been able to accomplish. As if that wasn't enough, it apparently was several sizes larger than anything either country would have been able to get off the ground. And then, the oddness began. HAM operators began to receive strange coded messages. One person in particular said he managed to decode one of the transmissions, and it corresponded to a star chart. A star chart which would have been plotted from earth 13,000 years ago, and focused on the Epsilon Bostes star system.

Well Here is Zorgons and John Lears Website !! that tell about it too!

Black Knight Satellite
1960 Encounter
www.thelivingmoon.com...

The Mystery Satellite of 1954, page 1
www.abovetopsecret.com...

when it came into view

Science: Second Moon?
Monday, Mar. 15, 1954
www.time.com...

then it now gone

Science: No Satellite in Sight
Monday, Jan. 14, 1957
www.time.com...
Read more: www.time.com...

Nows it back again >? a ancient space probe?? ohh god StarTrek


and we have Major Keyhoe that talks about a Mystery satellite in 1954

ok for the Legit Stuff!!

(ocala star ;; newspaper 1960 )
Mystery Satellite Tumbles through Space
news.google.com...



Then we Have



Lincoln LaPaz

Lincoln LaPaz was an American astronomer from the University of New Mexico and a pioneer in the study of meteors.

n ufology, LaPaz's name is often associated with UFO investigations on behalf of the military during the late 1940s and early 1950s. These include the so-called Roswell UFO incident of 1947, the N.M. green fireballs, that began in late 1948 and continued through the 1950s, and the search for near-Earth orbiting satellites in 1954 along with fellow N.M. astronomer Clyde Tombaugh. However, only LaPaz's association with the green fireball investigations for the Air Force is thoroughly documented and an undeniable historical fact.

en.wikipedia.org...

search TRUNNION PIN COVER -- logs when cover floats away, Newman comment on failure to grab it.

This is the STS-88 scene list, all downlinked NASA TV of the mission. It's a 660 kb text file, anybody can U2U me with an email address and I'll send it. These reports were prepared for every shuttle mission.

EVENT GROUND RECORDING
GMT MET GMT MET CAMERA DESCRIPTION
344 005 344 005

00:38:54 16:03:20 00:38:56 16:03:22 C MS/ Newman using pistol grip tool and Ross install sunshade on
MDM. CAM zooms in/out. Ross exits FOV.
00:44:36 16:09:02 00:44:38 16:09:04 A,D MS/ ISS. CAMs cycle.
00:44:51 16:09:17 00:44:52 16:09:18 ELB MS/ Ross and Newman prepare to install trunnion pin covers. CAM
zooms in/out. Newman and Ross separate covers and prepare to find
corresponding trunnion pins. Ross exits FOV.
00:51:04 16:15:30 00:51:05 16:15:31 D,A WS/ ISS. CAMs cycle.
00:51:33 16:15:59 00:51:34 16:16:00 C, ELB WS/ Newman and Ross prepare to install trunnion pin covers. CAMs cycle. Trunnion cover floats away.
00:52:59 16:17:25 00:53:00 16:17:26 B WS/ PLB with trunnion pin cover floating away.
00:53:39 16:18:05 00:53:40 16:18:06 C MS/ Newman on RMS arm preparing to install trunnion pin cover.
00:58:00 16:22:00 TAPE END.


TAPE NUMBER: 616430 TITLE: STS-88 / 2A Orbit 090, 091 (Downlink Reel # 030)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CAPTION: EVA-2 trunnion pin cover install, TORU antenna troubleshoot. A/G audio.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EVENT GROUND RECORDING
GMT MET GMT MET CAMERA DESCRIPTION
344 005 344 005
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
00:56:58 16:21:24 00:57:00 16:21:26 C
TAPE START. TDRW VIDEO. Orbit 090. MS/ Newman on RMS arm prepares to install trunnion pin cover. CAM zooms in/out and tilts up/down. Earth limb in/out left FOV.
01:03:09 16:27:35 01:03:10 16:27:36 ELB CU/ Newman on RMS EE installs trunnion pin cover. Light levels
drop as orbital night begins.
01:06:10 16:30:36 01:06:11 16:30:37 C MS/ Newman and Ross installing trunnion pin covers on Node 1 /
Unity.
01:06:36 16:31:02 LOS TDRW VIDEO.

01:06:52 16:31:18 01:06:54 16:31:20 C AOS TDRE VIDEO. MS/ Newman and Ross installing trunnion pin
covers on Node 1 / Unity. Dark Earth limb in the background.
01:08:02 16:32:28 01:08:09 16:32:35 C,D,A,ELB MS/ Various views of Newman and Ross installing trunnion pin
covers on Node 1 / Unity. CAM’s cycle. Audio - Interference from
a South American Radio station is heard.
01:08:34 16:33:00 01:08:36 16:33:02 ELB MS/ Newman and Ross in/out FOV installing trunnion pin covers on
Node 1 / Unity. Proton hits in FOV. Audio - Interference from a
South American Radio Station is heard.
01:20:30 16:44:56 01:20:31 16:44:57 B MS/ Newman and Ross continue to install trunnion covers on Node 1
/ Unity. Helmet lights illuminate worksite. CAM zooms in/out.
Audio - Newman says they were unable to catch the lost cover.
01:26:16 16:50:42 01:26:17 16:50:43 C,D CU/ Dark views of the Node 1 / Unity. CAM’s cycle. Changeover to
Orbit 091 occurs.
01:26:25 16:50:51 01:26:26 16:50:52 A CU/ Ross completes installation of last trunnion pin cover on Node
1 / Unity. Worksite illuminated by helmet light. Ross exits FOV.

01:34:17 16:58:43 01:34:18 16:58:44 B MS/ Newman on RMS EE in front of the AL hatch. Ross exits the AL,
handing Newman tools from the hatch. Glare develops then blac

reply to post by Wolfenz

.. by John Keel, he reports in depth on this satellite: "In February 1960 the US detected an unknown object in polar orbit, a feat that neither they or the USSR had been able to accomplish."

Thanks, this helps isolate the source of the narrative infection -- John Keel, a science fiction writer.

Keel made up stuff like this all the time for a 'good story', knowing his target audience would never notice, or didn't care if they did. But I doubt he realized his inaccuracies would still be misleading kids fifty years in the future.

Originally posted by JimOberg
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

.. by John Keel, he reports in depth on this satellite: "In February 1960 the US detected an unknown object in polar orbit, a feat that neither they or the USSR had been able to accomplish."

Thanks, this helps isolate the source of the narrative infection -- John Keel, a science fiction writer.

Keel made up stuff like this all the time for a 'good story', knowing his target audience would never notice, or didn't care if they did. But I doubt he realized his inaccuracies would still be misleading kids fifty years in the future.

OHH Yeah!! JIM



READ!!!!!!! THIS!!!!!!

Mystery Satellite Tumbles through space !! Feb 11 1960
news.google.com...

Dark Satellite : check !

Pentagon say in may be a soviet Origin : Check

Near Polar Orbit : Check

British radio Telescope : No Soviet Satellite sent aloft by Soviets Around Poles : Check

Pentagon say what is it? : Check

Ruled out the possibility to be lunik III : : Check

only one Left to be in polar orbit is Discovery 8 : Check

Navy Trackers say it not one of them ( Discovery rocket casing ) : Check


Explain that one .... JIM !!

from the Ocala Star Banner : News Paper

yup a legit newspapper


Star-Banner
en.wikipedia.org...


care to explain !!!




So I guess you dont Bother or take time to look at legit links Right ?

as i posted this before .... but there it is talking about what john keel has mentioned !!


god i love old news pappers ...

can you see it or track it at all ?

I'm going to have to do some research here because as an RF engineer this caught my eye:

"In short wave patterns analyzed by astronomer Duncan Lunan, it revealed its origin as Epsilon Boötes..."

It's completely meaningless ('short wave patterns'? WTF are they?), but let's assume it's a real story that's been garbled by a non-technical journalist - and the quote has just been repeated unquestioningly. If Lunan is claiming to have heard this on SW radio (and NO ONE else heard it - anywhere?) then I guess he wrote down the time, frequency, equipment, and how he decided it was a signal from the Black Knight satellite and not the Black Night taxi company! I'll try and do some digging and report back...

(Incidentally, the stories I have seen about the Black Knight Satellite are full of contradictions no one has bothered to question. But that's normal for this kind of stuff; why the the facts get in the way of a good story?)

reply to post by Wolfenz

only one Left to be in polar orbit is Discovery 8 : Check

Or the remnants of Discoverer 5.

The spacecraft was successfully put into a near-polar 193 x 353 km orbit by the Thor-Agena A booster. A day after launch, on 14 August 1959, the reentry vehicle was separated from the main body and the capsule released over the Pacific Ocean for descent to Earth.

nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov...
Just because the capsule de-orbited, doesn't mean there was nothing left in orbit.

Originally posted by Wolfenz

Explain that one .... JIM !!

from the Ocala Star Banner : News Paper

yup a legit newspapper

It's an AP story, that makes the story 'legit'. But so what?

Nothing in the story is in dispute.

[I do note that the claim is made the satellite was 'less than 19 feet long", reasonable -- but it became repeated as 'the satellite WAS 19 feet long."]

Keel's claim that NO US satellites were in polar orbit at that time, is what I criticized.

That claim is NOT in dispute, it is flat-out FALSE.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

only one Left to be in polar orbit is Discovery 8 : Check

Or the remnants of Discoverer 5.

The spacecraft was successfully put into a near-polar 193 x 353 km orbit by the Thor-Agena A booster. A day after launch, on 14 August 1959, the reentry vehicle was separated from the main body and the capsule released over the Pacific Ocean for descent to Earth.

nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov...
Just because the capsule de-orbited, doesn't mean there was nothing left in orbit.

edit on 6/3/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Phage go read the artical seeing you haven ! do your self a favor ... ok my PREVIOUS POST!!


Pentagon doesnt know what is it !!

Navy Trackers I would think would know ! as i said they thought it was a casing of discovery 8 but rueled it out ... ya think ! they would looked into Discovery 5s casing or some part of it ?

reply to post by Wolfenz

Pentagon doesnt know what is it !!

Correction. At the time they didn't know what it was.

ya think ! they would looked into Discovery 5s casing or some part of it ?

Yes. They did.
Satellite


And, from the OP:

It took two weeks for Dark Fence's scientists to check back through their taped observations, and to discover that the mysterious satellite had first showed up on Aug. 15. The Air Force surveillance center also checked its records to provide a list of everything else that was circling in the sky, and its computers worked out a detailed description of the new object's behavior. The evidence from both Air Force and Navy pointed to Discoverer V, fired from Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif, on Aug. 13.

I agree with Phage and other posters on this. The Black Knight Satellite was interesting, but it was probably just a piece of space junk.

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
If you would have said you speculated that its too big to be space junk then that would imply your making an assumption, however, when conclusions are made especially after implying research has been done it gives the impression its gone the past the speculating point and into calculating a conclusive answer.

Well that all sounds real nice but it doesn't change the fact that unless this object is right in front of my face, or if NASA has provided it's size in the past, I have no way of 100% proving just how big it is.

You want to sit here and discuss what you think I need to do, or how I should go about explaining my position on this matter, are you bored or something? Maybe you have something constructive to add to the discussion concerning The Black Knight Satellite?

Tell yuh what my friend, Why don't you pm me some guidelines so I can make you happy and not let you down next time? I wouldn't want to see you lose any sleep over this.

LMAO! Get over yourself. There is a World out there, go outside and enjoy it. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by Phage


With Discoverer 5 having a lot of Black paint, Maybe this thing really could be a piece of it. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by SheopleNation

The object in the STS-88 images?
No.

So safe to say there is no Black Knight that wasn't just space junk.

I'm going back to ghosts and paranormal

Originally posted by gort51
The Real Black Knight.

homepage.powerup.com.au...

www.britishpathe.com...

www.youtube.com...

We were launching rockets before Nasa even started, and with No stolen Nazis!!

edit on 2-6-2013 by gort51 because: (no reason given)

Yes there was........The REAL Black Knight,

Everyone Please Note....For the Interests of Historical Fact, Can we now please NOT refer to this, so called, rogue Satellite as the Black Knight!!!

It is NOT the Black Knight!!....The Black Knight is Historically recorded FACT in Human Space research History of the 1950s and 60s, and not some fanciful object.

All ATSers from NOW on, please refer to this mystery as the DARK OBJECT, as originally referred by DK in the 50s.

It is NOT the Black Knight....the Black Knight WAS a REAL Rocket..............OK!!!