The Black Knight Satellite

Originally posted by BeReasonable
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

So your suggesting this prototype rocket is the debris photographed in what appears to be a high earth orbit based on anecdotal information. Does that really sound plausible to you?

No

Humans has been putting space junk into orbit since then

I never put said it was Im saying the Nazi had plans of putting a Manned V2 aka a4b into space
it was planned but who knows what when on... in the late 40s 50s what was sent up there

but something of a 32 ,000 pound space junk that was detected in in th 20s 30s 40-s and 50s when satilights did not exist 1 IS KINDA FISHY

reply to post by Wolfenz

but something of a 32 ,000 pound space junk that was detected in in th 20s 30s 40-s and 50s when satilights did not exist 1 IS KINDA FISHY

What's fishy is the 32,000 pound claim and where it came from. Any information about that? The OP seems to have gone missing for now so can't respond to questions about it.

And where did you get the 20s 30s and 40s from? What was detected back then? Nothing in the OP about that.

Originally posted by sealing
Oh the old BK eh?
The debate always ends up the same,
I know because I'm in it every time.
The debunkers say it's our polar orbiting satellite or the Russians
and that there is proof .
However the time lines DO NOT match up.

.....

The only satellites to reach polar orbit were YEARS after the alleged BK satellite was tracked.
Making it impossible to be ours and highly unlikely to be Russian.

Phage has already responded but I feel the need to get my footprints into this issue too.

You've made this claim before and you've been corrected before.

The fact that you can advance a false factual claim AGAIN after responders already provided factual refutations, checkable historic data, suggests you are not a fair player on these threads, and deserve to be ignored.

Just my opinion.

Polar orbit satellites have been launched by the US since early 1959. I didn't just read it on the Internet, I was a HS kid keeping a news clipping scrapbook.

I wish you would recognize and acknowledge your error so you could learn to make useful contributions.

I actually have some experience with some types of satellites, as I sometimes dealt with them for my job in the USAF. Looking at the image presented, what I see looks much more like a jettisoned engine nozzle. Satellites are generally of a certain type of design, mainly because they must present as large a surface area as possible to the earth. It is obvious from this image that if this was a satellite, it would be quite different from most satellites that I have ever seen or worked with.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus

Looking at the image presented, what I see looks much more like a jettisoned engine nozzle.

Have a look at the other images of it (all linked in the OP). See if it still looks like a nozzle.
Try this one:
eol.jsc.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

but something of a 32 ,000 pound space junk that was detected in in th 20s 30s 40-s and 50s when satilights did not exist 1 IS KINDA FISHY

What's fishy is the 32,000 pound claim and where it came from. Any information about that? The OP seems to have gone missing for now so can't respond to questions about it.

And where did you get the 20s 30s and 40s from? What was detected back then? Nothing in the OP about that.

edit on 6/2/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

well my understanding about the supposed figure of 32,000 pounds is that it is mentioned in the supposed intelligence report produced after the object was detected. Problem is, there hardly seems to be any original sources about this 1950's detection, except for a vague time article, and any reaserch on original sources seems to lead in a circle which leads back to the same repeated websites over and over again.

Also, as you've mentioned yourself Phage, there is no real evidence which links the 1950's story with the STS 88 mission photgraphs, and it certainly would be very strange for NASA to leave those pictures freely available online if it was senstive information of any nature.

Ive already had my say on peoples far out claims of some Nazi space rocket, but i am absolutely fascinated by the subject, id love to see some more detailed pics of that object form STS88 shots with some reference to size, that would be awesome.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by JiggyPotamus

 

Looking at the image presented, what I see looks much more like a jettisoned engine nozzle.

Have a look at the other images of it (all linked in the OP). See if it still looks like a nozzle.
Try this one:
eol.jsc.nasa.gov...

edit on 6/2/2013 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Yeah your right this picture it just looks like some sort of heat shield or something, hardly interesting at all. As much as i wish it wasnt so mundane it appears to be nothing over exciting

Originally posted by JimOberg
I know this may seem like cheating to some folks hereabouts, but I asked one of the spacewalkers on that mission, an old friend and colleague.
He just replied: "I think this may be the Node 1 trunnion pin thermal cover that was lost on the second EVA."
I'll pursue this with the STS-88 Scene List, a standard NASA document of descriptions of all downlinked video from every mission.
Hope this helps.

Here's more details on the item, from the STS-88 Press Kit::

On the second spacewalk, day seven of the mission, Ross and Newman will
install six handrails and other worksite interfaces as well as remove hatch
and petal launch restraints from both the left and top berthing ports on Unity.
The two astronauts also will install antennas on the port and starboard
hatches of Unity for an S-band early communications system as well as a
cable for that communications system that runs to the Zarya. Finally a
sunshade for the MDM computers will be installed as well as covers for the
trunnion pins which latched Unity in the Shuttle cargo bay.

reply to post by BeReasonable

id love to see some more detailed pics of that object form STS88 shots with some reference to size, that would be awesome.

Stay tuned. Don't touch the dial. Film at 11...maybe
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Phage


Fair enough. I need to do more research on him

I'm still quite fond of the idea of this though. I tend to believe there's no smoke without fire somewhere. The idea that a V2 accidentally got inserted into orbit is one I've always been interested in - partly because of Von Brauns interest in space flight and the Aggregate Missile Programme, but partly because of the other programms like the Sanger Amerika Bomber which were fascinating,

Plus, I always go by the notion that if we've thought of something as a species, another intelligent species will move along similar lines, so the idea of a robotic space probe from elsewhere being in our orbit isn't that far fetched - we're already doing it in our own solar system.

Originally posted by neformore

I'm still quite fond of the idea of this though. I tend to believe there's no smoke without fire somewhere. The idea that a V2 accidentally got inserted into orbit is one I've always been interested in - partly because of Von Brauns interest in space flight and the Aggregate Missile Programme, but partly because of the other programms like the Sanger Amerika Bomber which were fascinating,.

The problem with 'interest' in such ideas is that they need to be founded on a basis of real spaceflight operational constraints, such as what it really takes in terms of energy to get into orbit and stay there. Without that, it's only idle speculations based on fantasy imagination. More than merely a waste of time, the results are alluring blind alleys and distracting dead ends for unequipped enthusiasts.

There are plenty of early 'Space Age' mysteries worthy of wonderment and susceptible to skilled amateur analysis. The fate of the lid on the tunnel of an underground nuclear test in Utah is an example; Project Farside, and the artificial meteor test flights -- did they achieve orbit? Fun, and fertile arenas for examination. The German efforts with manned [and womanned] V-1 flights -- fascinating.

But V-2s in orbit? Or even 'manned V-2's'? Or more exotic Nazi wunderwaffen. The numbers just don't add up. Velocity requirements were far beyond hardware capabilities.

Playing around is a normal step of attaining through practice the skills necessary for adult tasks, and there are many such tasks, and they are fair grounds for non-specialist research and contributions. But that only comes when the toys are left behind and you leave the playground.

That's when the real fun begins!

Originally posted by GermanShep
You cannot deny symmetry.. That is an object I don't care what anyone say's... It is too perfect to just be an accident.


Gs

I can and do. Yes, it is an object, but it is neither perfect nor symmetrical.

Follow-up on the comment of my friend who was there on that mission, here's details:

www.cbsnews.com...

09:35 p.m., 12/09/98, Update: Spacewalker frees jammed Russian antenna

The spacewalk began at 3:33 p.m. Ross and Newman spent the first part
of the outing installing two 100-pound antennas in two unused hatches of
the Unity module. The antennas will enable U.S. ground controllers to
communicate with the station after Endeavour undocks. Antenna
installation went smoothly and the spacewalkers turned their attention
to installing a sunshade over a computer mounted on Unity, removing
launch restraints on hatch hardware and installing thermal blankets over
the large posts, or trunnions, used to mount Unity in the shuttle's
cargo bay for launch.
But one of the covers managed to escape its tether and float free of
the shuttle, beyond the crew's reach. It was the third item in two
spacewalks to get away from Ross, who went to great lengths today to
make sure everything was properly tethered.
"Jerry, one of the thermal covers got away from you," Cabana radioed.
"How did it do that?" Ross asked. "Jim saw a tether, I'll guarantee
you. Where did it go?"
"It's out my window."
"I don't believe this," Ross said, sounding dismayed.
"Jerry, which t ether did it come off of?" Newman asked a few moments
later. "I need to knwo which one not to trust."
"My regular wrist tether," Ross replied.
But that was the only miscue in an otherwise flawless spacewalk and
Ross went out of his way to thank his training team at the Johnson Space
Center in Houston.

reply to post by Phage


Sorry I haven't gotten back to this over the weekend...

Then you haven't been paying attention.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I did miss anything such as the above by JimOberg, as far as mission astronauts talking about the thermal cover. So the pic at least is solved. My apologies for missing that.

In January 1956 the Air Force would begin study of a scientific version of the Corona reconnaissance satellite, boosted by an Atlas Agena two-stage booster. This could provide a US capability for launching a 1600 kg scientific satellite into orbit, as a follow-on to Vanguard. It also would provide cover for launches under the secret Corona program. This was shelved at the time but would become reality as the "Discoverer" program, a cover for early the Corona satellites.

Intriguing idea... (a 3000lb+ payload would make it a much more likely culprit), but we STILL have the problem of a large satellite (or two) reported by many astronomers PRIOR to Sputnik (not just Keyhoe's supposition). I will concede that our own military may have put up a secret satellite and simply allowed Russia to take the credit for being first, just to drive the space budget, but if so, then that is a completely different conspiracy altogether....(it is however, a more logical idea than an unknown ET satellite left hanging around). Either way, a pretty valid topic for discussion.

Can you provide a picture of the Black Knight, please.

Oh, now you are just being droll, and you know it. I showed a purported image, a possibility, an large object orbiting Earth that had yet to be conclusively identified (though I think JimOberg has provided enough info to explain it).

What do you mean? Public statements (and the interpreation of those statements by the press) about a highly classified spy satellite program. I wouldn't put too much stock in that.

If it were about a current program, I'd agree with you, but we are talking about a program LONG since irrelevant as far as the need for classification is concerned. The Corona components are fairly open knowledge these days.

What's fishy is the 32,000 pound claim and where it came from. Any information about that? The OP seems to have gone missing for now so can't respond to questions about it.

Flying Saucers magazine article from April of 1959, MuMeson Archive.

Also, you (Phage) mentioned getting upset about info reported as fact when it isn't. I can't think of where I did this. I specifically mentioned when something was alleged or when something is factual.

Originally posted by PheonixReborn

Originally posted by swanneWhy would NASA spend time and money photographing a space junk anyway?]

So they don't crash into it on the next orbit?

Good logic there. Others enjoy ignoring such thought processes though

reply to post by SheopleNation

Also, Why didn't you quote Gazrok's name in the post that you responded to him? Anything to do with him being a Moderator here, or did you all of a sudden decide to do something that you almost never do here ever at ATS cause you are trying to walk softly?

The day a member feels they can't refute or question a post, just because a mod made it, would be a sad day indeed. Do you really think I'm anything but HAPPY to find out even more info on a subject? No, on the contrary, I'm delighted that the pic, for example, is sufficiently explained. I'm intrigued by subjects, but I'm quite happy to be corrected if in error. I think that's really the ONLY way to approach this subject. SME or no, I still have the same curiosity, and knowledge gaps as any other interested in the field.

reply to post by Saneeto

Mr. super moderator, do bear in mind that we have like a dozen more threads on 'The Black Knight Satellite'.
good day.

You are correct, but they also feature alien messages and all kinds of other hoopla that do nothing but detract from the issue. And, from how long ago? Nothing wrong with a fresh take on an interesting case or even just introducing it to those who've never heard of it.

reply to post by Phage

Oh. I see that the OP has bailed on his thread. Never mind.

Nah, I simply play hard on the weekends, so I'm rarely online then. Went to the Star Wars weekends at Disney, had a blast.

The claim that there were no polar orbiting satellites just isn't true. That was the whole idea behind the Discoverer (Corona) satellites.

Yep, that's why I didn't mention it, like so many other Black Knight articles seem to dwell on. It was not beyond our capability at the time.

This thread has died a horrible death

reply to post by Iamnotadoctor


Maybe for you. I'm delighted to see an excellent explanation for a very mysterious pic, and I'm still left wondering if we either a) launched a secret satellite before Russia's Sputnik, b) have an ET satellite up there, or c) if it was just supposition and mistakes made at the time that led to stories of an early satellite. Personally, after all of the evidence, I'm left with option c being the most likely, and feel I learned more about a subject I was interested in. Kudos to all who presented their contributions to this thread.