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Profound Truth - Not Earned and Not Taken

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posted on May, 28 2013 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


So now you agree that putting god into a box is okay? Didn't you just imply that doing that is bad? Why do you say that god is in a box now?

How is my theology not theology? I use scripture (Jesus' words) as the basis for my theology. You use mostly Paul's, which is where you make your biggest mistake. To trust a man's words (one who previously helped kill Jesus' followers) over that of Jesus' is destructive to your own understanding, yet you willingly do it for some reason.

You are taking a box (book) and trying to say that all understanding that is needed is contained within it. You are wrong, and you are limiting your potential for understanding by believing that. You have already contradicted yourself at least twice in the last few posts yet you refuse to acknowledge those contradictions. You are suffering from cognitive dissonance and Stockholm syndrome, though I doubt you are capable of seeing it.
edit on 28-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 28 2013 @ 09:04 PM
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The OT is there to show our inability to follow the law governing the thief (Beast / Animal nature). If you take Jesus work from birth to the cross as something you must do, then why was Christ necessary? He showed us what must be done on Earth to please God. Again, he was showing us what the OT age outlined for us. The law is a guardian until faith came. Once faith comes, we have access to the blood of Christ, but not before allowing faith to lead us to love and overcoming the need for the law. Paul is the final piece to this and reveals the mystery of the entire thing to its conclusion. That truth is found in allowing the Son of God (We, who are many, are one loaf) to bring the entire body back to God. It's HIS work. It becomes our work as the body of Christ, each member of the body having a function. Again, Paul is necessary to see the fact that we can never do it alone. Unity with Christ is necessary and HE is the Head of the body. Anyone who does not acknowledge this is not part of the body. The gift goes to the body (Church). Taking the name assumes we take the character (meaning of the name). If not, we take it in vain.

Eating food (Knowledge) assumes that what is good is kept and the rest is expelled. The theology box is a process for all of us. We each see the truth uniquely. Our answers can only be questioned. God answers our questions. Doors open when we seek and knock. That's the door on the box by the way.


Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


So now you agree that putting god into a box is okay? Didn't you just imply that doing that is bad? Why do you say that god is in a box now?

How is my theology not theology? I use scripture (Jesus' words) as the basis for my theology. You use mostly Paul's, which is where you make your biggest mistake. To trust a man's words (one who previously helped kill Jesus' followers) over that of Jesus' is destructive to your own understanding, yet you willingly do it for some reason.

You are taking a box (book) and trying to say that all understanding that is needed is contained within it. You are wrong, and you are limiting your potential for understanding by believing that. You have already contradicted yourself at least twice in the last few posts yet you refuse to acknowledge those contradictions. You are suffering from cognitive dissonance and Stockholm syndrome, though I doubt you are capable of seeing it.
edit on 28-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


How does a man's death bring life? You are part of a death cult, which is why you idolize a man's death and worship the device that he was tortured on. Jesus' message was solely about life, not death, so you have to wonder why you believe the most important part of his message was his death.

If the only way to please god is to do what Jesus did, then no one would ever please god because no one can resurrect from the dead. You may want to rethink what you just said.

So it is "HIS" work, but it is our work? Which is it? You just contradicted yourself within like 5 words. I think that's a new record.

So now you're saying that the theology box is necessary. You were saying the opposite earlier. Think before you type, because you are just giving me more and more ammo every time you reply.



posted on May, 28 2013 @ 10:25 PM
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John 14:12

Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Open the Bible and read. The body of Christ is the Church. Christ in the head. What is the work of the church on Earth? Expand you box so God can take you out of it. What you spout below is your own pretext.


Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


How does a man's death bring life? You are part of a death cult, which is why you idolize a man's death and worship the device that he was tortured on. Jesus' message was solely about life, not death, so you have to wonder why you believe the most important part of his message was his death.

If the only way to please god is to do what Jesus did, then no one would ever please god because no one can resurrect from the dead. You may want to rethink what you just said.

So it is "HIS" work, but it is our work? Which is it? You just contradicted yourself within like 5 words. I think that's a new record.

So now you're saying that the theology box is necessary. You were saying the opposite earlier. Think before you type, because you are just giving me more and more ammo every time you reply.




posted on May, 28 2013 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Key word "works". Nothing about faith... weird huh?

Are you saying that you will die then resurrect on Earth three days later? There have been billions of people who have died believing in Jesus who have yet to rise from the dead.

I think you are the one with the pretext my friend.



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 06:45 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Key word "works". Nothing about faith... weird huh?

Are you saying that you will die then resurrect on Earth three days later? There have been billions of people who have died believing in Jesus who have yet to rise from the dead.

I think you are the one with the pretext my friend.


Faith without works is dead. Salvation comes at the second coming of Christ.

Hebrews 9

28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Believers are waiting. Christ is bring salvation to those waiting. The gift goes to those waiting for Him. We do not do this. He does. Again, our works are for our benefit and that of others. We cannot do anything for God personally. God can only give and demonstrates this pattern to us for our own edification. We are saved by grace and not of ourselves. Faith is the connecting point between us and God. Before Christ come, we must be born again. We are the body of Christ while here in this place. That body will rise from the process of water putting out fire. The process refines the Soul, but union with God allows Christ to give the gift. Union happens from love and faith. It's the same in any marriage. We must be faithful and we must love the other.


edit on 29-5-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


What happens when you wait though? When you wait, nothing is done. When nothing is done, you get a place like Earth where the elites run all over you while you don't bat an eye. See what waiting has gotten us?

Seems to me like waiting is exactly what the elites would want us to do. It's benefited them so fsr hasn't it?
edit on 29-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 29 2013 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


What happens when you wait though? When you wait, nothing is done. When nothing is done, you get a place like Earth where the elites run all over you while you don't bat an eye. See what waiting has gotten us?

Seems to me like waiting is exactly what the elites would want us to do. It's benefited them so fsr hasn't it?
edit on 29-5-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


They know it's coming. The preparation has been for nothing on their part.

Revelation 6

12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[f] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their[g] wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

What do you see in those verses? Kings running to their bunkers.



posted on May, 31 2013 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Or they have made you believe it's coming so that you'll wait for it and they can do whatever they want.

Listing bible verses does not prove the bible right. You have a pretext that the bible is the end all be all on everything, so of course you would take those verses as fact. Circular thinking.



posted on Aug, 13 2013 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




The scripture is wrong because it lies.


Then don't use it to make your point. Stick to another source. I do not agree with your statement. As I can find no higher axiom above the Biblical narrative (And I have looked), I regard it as the best reflection we have of the true Living Word within us all. That's where I stand on it.



If the true living word is within us all may I pose this:
There is a much greater axiom than biblical narrative which would be an INTERNAL diologe (unless you have already written a new testiment 'modernform' to be appendixed in the latest and greatest volume 'King James version' 2013 cough behind my hand); and here is the key, what are YOURS beyond the 'word' written by others? Do you not have an original idea or contemplate yourself without reference to musty old ideaforms; and at least write these ORIGINAL musings down? If you are merely spouting those ideas of others and your interpretation of OF WHAT USE IS THE MESSAGE---"I concure I believe"; that is a known but you are not adding to the arguement just Justify-ing-IT (someone elses) become an evangelist. Where are you in the mix? a compliant sheep; not a questioning reasoning being with its own interpretation of a higher being--YOURSELF in another realm that is trying to help you through this lifeform.
edit on 13-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2013 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


Or they have made you believe it's coming so that you'll wait for it and they can do whatever they want.

Listing bible verses does not prove the bible right. You have a pretext that the bible is the end all be all on everything, so of course you would take those verses as fact. Circular thinking.


Some thought the same of MEIN KAMPF, a bible of sorts as well (granted for a smaller audience of nationalists). Dangerous business happening here (the Power of the Word) with suggestion without proof and an ideology that was ripe for those times, NOW TIMES is not so dire yet the Bible still holds on for what reason in this century? Dont tell me because its enduring, its because the truth has not been decryed/deciphered/dissemenated adequately on the same scale, and why would it? Ancient Fiction remains as a modern Fools childs book, Slavery--rather than the living mans powers of observation and faith equals Truth/enlightenment and potencial salvation FROM ITSELF.
edit on 13-8-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 14 2013 @ 04:19 AM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
What I will show you is a profound truth. You are not likely to hear or read this anywhere else. I will make a few simple statements. From each statement, simply ask: Why?

1) Salvation can neither be earned nor taken.

2) Salvation is a free gift, yet it comes at a cost. There is no paradox in this statement.

3) Your works cannot earn salvation, yet you must have good works or there is no salvation. There is no contradiction in this statement.

4) Christ died on the cross as a free gift for all of mankind, yet not all of mankind will be saved. There is no contradiction in this statement.

5) Hell is very real and some people will end their existence there. This statement is not a paradox to what is mentioned above.

..........

Can I produce evidence that this is true?


Your above statements are right about one thing only.Salvation cannot be earned .Salvation is given it can't be chosen.It is a process and not an event.Good works are not salvation nor is it proof or evidence of it.Everything you do does NOTHING to contribute to your salvation.God is doing 100%.

The fallacious self righteous religious doctrine you must be doing good works is proof you are saved is foolishness..Is anyone righteous .... anyone....please state how many and what good works qualifies you for salvation .

You say "Christ" died on the cross(where in fact is was the man Yahoshua of Nazareth who IS the Christ) as a free gift to mankind...please show me where in the scriptures that is.That is a convoluted extrapolation at best.Christ means the anointing the anointed one.

..yet all of mankind will NOT be saved......you are clearly stating you do not believe in Yahoshua..whom you call Jesus.Yahoshua the name(which means the nature of) that is above EVERY name cannot save ALL of mankind.Then he is a failure of the highest degree and is not who he said he was(The Son of God) or who you say you believe he is.He said he came to save the WHOLE world .There are a multitude of scriptures that say the same thing yet YOU claim he can't save all of mankind.It is obvious you believe in some other Yahoshua(Jesus) who is NOT the savior of all mankind.

Hell is very real...

...please offer some scriptural proof with one scriptures from the New (Greek) or Old(Hebrew) testament that says the word hell.....I know you can't because it is not in there at all.The Hebrew Sheol is translated hell and means the grave,the realm of the dead the realm of imperception the same definition of the Greek word hades that is translated hell.Is that a place...no....it is a realm.

only 2 other words are translated hell

Gehenna..which is a place..that exists no more!!God never punished anyone in it and never will.
Tartarus ..the abode of the wicked dead ...which is Greek mythology.

Peter wrote Tartarus once and none of the other apostles spoke of Hades or Gehenna AT ALL.Did they not understand what Yahoshua supposedly taught and if he did he completely contradicted himself as being the savior of all mankind.

Your doctrine of men of the eternal punishment of hell is patently false and the epitome of blaspheme.First you deny that Yahoshua is the savior of all mankind then indict God as monster that sentences those that don't believe and accept a free gift to eternal punishment!!! There is nothing just or merciful in that at all yet you say that is your God....It truly is some other "Jesus". you believe and worship.

Fortunately for you and the billions of the "gospel of hell" believers that God is merciful and is saving you anyways when if anyone they deserve the eternal punishment of hell for blaspheming God.There is no more heinous indictment of Gods character than this yet I know for a fact you do not understand this at all.I also know you believe I am the blasphemer because I say God is not an abominable sadist like you just implied.The logic of that statement will completely allude you.

God has given you over to a strong delusion to believe a lie...your religion and it's false doctrines of men..That is what you believe in and worship not the creator God of the universes.If you think I am being hard on you ...damn right I am.You are spreading and teaching vicious lies about the creator God.

It is you that make void the word of God with your foolishness.You know neither the scriptures nor God.If you did the most obvious thing you would KNOW(no belief required) is Yahoshua is the savior of ALL mankind.You'd KNOW there is no place of eternal punishment by the merciful and just creator God.
edit on 14-8-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 14 2013 @ 07:53 AM
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reply to post by Rex282
 


Much of the perceived fallacy you see in my post is directly related to misunderstanding separation from God and being born again. Baptism is the immersion of our soul in to the waters of life. Spirit baptism is the union of soul to God's Spirit. Once this happens, we are no longer separated. Baptism by fire represents trials and judgment as we near the end of the age. As long as we are under the master of sin and death, we are separated from God. Some people will clearly choose to remain separated by their hatred of God. Can God come after all of the sheep? I do not limit Him. Do some people hate God enough to remain separated from God, even after the earth is scorched beyond supporting life? Matthew 24 states that the days would be shortened before this happens and the wicked removed.

Even after the Day of the Lord, access to New Jerusalem is restricted. Some are cast into the outer darkness. Again, this is symbolism for separation from God. To be fully man, Christ was forsaken for a time from God. His experience as Adam on each end of humanity needed to be full and complete.

John 6:65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

God must prepare each person, but as the very next verse points out, some will betray and deny Him fully. You cannot deny the Spirit and still be saved can you? I just have this one question for you to answer. What happens if you deny the Spirit?

John :6:66

66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

2 Timothy also makes it clear how those who deny Christ are marked.

2 Timothy 3

3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

Count it out. 18 items marking selfishness (Not the Character of Christ). There are 18 (6+6+6). He says, "MARK THIS!"

You can deny that God will judge some as unworthy of the Gift Christ offers all you want. This does not change the fact that scripture speaks of judgement and separation. Eternal life is outlined in Luke 10. If you do not love others and God, you are not a recipient of the gift. He DID die for all of mankind. The trouble comes from the fact that some reject the gift.

And now we come back to baptism. This is the process of being born again into the waters of life. God is longsuffering. What happens to the wolves as they are separated from the sheep?

Matthew 3

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with[c] the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Will the fire bring them to the Spirit? Possibly. This does not change the hell they will experience to get there. Water puts out fire.

The same fire that melts wax, also hardens clay. What keeps clay malleable? If you are an old clay pot with a facade, extreme fire is the only thing that melts you.

See this thread I did a few years ago: Glass Ceramic



posted on Aug, 23 2013 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


I apologize for the late reply.I am not even sure where these quotes are from but they are yours.



3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people. Count it out. 18 items marking selfishness (Not the Character of Christ). There are 18 (6+6+6). He says, "MARK THIS!"


I know you are sincere in you belief that extrapolations like this are true however they aren't.This does not signify the mark of the beast of man 666 firstly because is not a calculation as Rev 13 says to do.The carbon 12 theory isn't true either or any of the other grasping at straws 666"theory's" trying to identify a person place or things because it starts from a faulty premise of "deciphering".It is about math and more specifically Phi.Even Issac Newton fell into the same trap and wasted years of his life trying to "decipher" starting from a false premise.He tried like so many before and after to change the facts when they don't fit "their" theory.



You can deny that God will judge some as unworthy of the Gift Christ offers all you want. This does not change the fact that scripture speaks of judgement and separation.

I never said God will not judge.God is just and will judge justly not unjustly as you and the many believe so falsely.There is ZERO justice in the eternal punishment of hell.It is the epitome of deprived amoral sadist.Gods judgment is always corrective.God is creating life not destroying it.Infinite punishment serves no just purpose at all.It is unwarranted torture of the highest and most vile degree.The offender is never rehabilitated.

Even our prison system is trillions of times more just. Do you believe man is more ethical and moral than God.The doctrine of Hell is blasphemy of the highest order to make God the most heinous unjust being there is...and yes there is judgement ....righteous judgement.This is number one on the list.The Lake of Fire you call hell is the consuming fire of God that cleanses and corrects by separating out the dross..religion...For those that commit the highest order of blasphemy of eternal(age lasting) judgment they will not be cleansed for ages just as Matthew 7 states.
There are many scriptures that support Yahoshua is saving ALL mankind.I have posted them numerous times.Anyone honest about the Truth will find them.



Eternal life is outlined in Luke 10. If you do not love others and God, you are not a recipient of the gift. He DID die for all of mankind. The trouble comes from the fact that some reject the gift.

ALL are unrighteous ...NOT ONE seeks after God.How can an unrighteous man make a righteous choice...It is impossible.Do you not believe only Yahoshua can "choose" you or do you have a special dispensation that not even the disciples had.God is the one that draws(drags) ALL mankind to Yahoshua no one can do that on their own by a "free will"choice and accepting a free gift.God is the judge not man.

Love is a state of being ...a fruit of the spirit.Salvation is not an event it is a process of changing .....repenting..ALL 100% done by God ...0 % done by man.No one can "change" themselves no matter how deluded they are to think they have done any of it.The essence of what you are saying is...Yahoshua came to save all mankind but he will fail because the majority will reject the gift because they are unrighteous and have no love for their fellow man or God.That would mean no one qualifies for the gift because ,no one is righteous, no choice or accepting gifts will change that.


And now we come back to baptism. This is the process of being born again into the waters of life. God is longsuffering. What happens to the wolves as they are separated from the sheep?

You are mixing your metaphors and then superimposing them on your beliefs and theory's to support "your" facts not The Truth.Who are the prophets that come as sheep but are ravenous wolves.Does that sound like heathens.It is an inside job.Preachers,teachers pastors, evangelist, prophets.....hirelings.

"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."

Many..CHRISTians.

They have the outward appearance say the "right" words teach from the "bible" yet they lack fruits.They do not live in a state of being of the spirit but only are clad in sheep's clothing.Do they exemplify the mercy of God....no ..they segregate.They choose who is the sheep and the goats and who will be punished with torture infinitely.
edit on 23-8-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-8-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2013 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by Rex282
 


Much of the perceived fallacy you see in my post is directly related to misunderstanding separation from God and being born again. Baptism is the immersion of our soul in to the waters of life. Spirit baptism is the union of soul to God's Spirit. Once this happens, we are no longer separated. Baptism by fire represents trials and judgment as we near the end of the age. As long as we are under the master of sin and death, we are separated from God. Some people will clearly choose to remain separated by their hatred of God. Can God come after all of the sheep? I do not limit Him. Do some people hate God enough to remain separated from God, even after the earth is scorched beyond supporting life? Matthew 24 states that the days would be shortened before this happens and the wicked removed.

Even after the Day of the Lord, access to New Jerusalem is restricted. Some are cast into the outer darkness. Again, this is symbolism for separation from God. To be fully man, Christ was forsaken for a time from God. His experience as Adam on each end of humanity needed to be full and complete.



I've said it before I think you are very sincere in your beliefs and .....that you are sincerely wrong.(the irony of you moniker).

Have you thought for more than few seconds before you post all of your "positive" proofs of Gods existence how many times you have been wrong about your belief.Sincere belief is not proof.I applaud the fact you are hearing things outside the box of traditional Christianity however not if it is coming from "your" theory's.

You are failing to see the leaven of Christian doctrines is leavening everything.The doctrine of the eternal punishment of hell is 2nd on the list only to free will.Even Einstein (who you are not even in the same universe of intelligence) saw this even though he resisted The Truth also.That is the baptism of fire.Knowing that GOD is the absolute sovereign in every way and man is not free of the causation of Gods will at all.

God cannot be deciphered or reduced to formulas and postulations.They may contain some of The Truth however God can only be know when God reveals himself not by investigation and study.God fully comprehends the futility of man seeking higher knowledge by their own methods.He is causing them to do so.The end result will always be another layer of the onion.Dark energy, dark matter neutralinos,preons.....the rabbit hole is infinite.

Your suppositions that some will "clearly reject" the gift and remain separated is mere speculation and goes against Yahoshuas nature.Plus the fact the vast majority of those you are speaking of who are resistant are the religious not filthy heathens.THAT is the separator from God partaking of the knowledge of Good and Evil and believing "they" have free will to choose their righteousness.

When God has baptized you into the whole truth and nothing but The Truth THEN the Truth will set you free and not one nano second sooner.

edit on 23-8-2013 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2013 @ 10:00 PM
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reply to post by Rex282
 



Have you thought for more than few seconds before you post all of your "positive" proofs of Gods existence how many times you have been wrong about your belief.Sincere belief is not proof.I applaud the fact you are hearing things outside the box of traditional Christianity however not if it is coming from "your" theory's.


Although I could tell you a thousands things like what I have already shown, one more will do.

If you take the product of letters times the number of letters in Genesis 1, then divide the product of words times the number of words, you get 3.1415. You don't get all of Pi. You get it to four decimal places.

If you do the same in John 1, you get e (2.7182). You don't get all of e. You get it to four decimal places. Why would God put Pi in Genesis 1 and e in John 1, the two most prominent verses explaining creation? The answer is simple. It's the same reason that everything I have outlined so far holds the same shadow of hidden truth from physics. It's TRUE (AMN). Proof is what I have stated and nothing will change the two mathematical constants encoded into Genesis 1 and John 1. This is proof that a signature was left. Not just here, but in ALL of scripture.

Proof!

Instead of your argument ad hominem, try debunking what I just outlined, then head back to the other statements and refute them rather than simply stating they are not true. Why do you think this is not proof? What are you references from theory and scripture? Take one at a time and reason it out for everyone to read.

Consider that Father in Hebrew is Aleph Bet and His son is the Word. The Bible is clear that we must see this evidence with faith or we have not been prepared by the Father. Faith comes from seeing what is most evident. Salvation comes from the Father preparing us to see. The Son offers salvation as a gift once our eyes are opened. It can't happen any other way.

John 6:65

65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

I choose to follow and believe what the word states.


edit on 23-8-2013 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2013 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 





If you take the product of letters times the number of letters in Genesis 1, then divide the product of words times the number of words, you get 3.1415. You don't get all of Pi. You get it to four decimal places.


I don't get the same answer as you.

There are 28 letters in Genesis 1:1 28x28=784
There are 7 words 7x7=49
www.biblebelievers.org.au...



784/49=16
49/784=0.0625

What am I doing wrong?



edit on 23-8-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2013 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 


I'd like to see if this calculation works in any other language besides English. Is it the same in Spanish, French, Hebrew, Greek, etc.? I'm guessing it won't be.
edit on 23-8-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2013 @ 11:26 PM
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I was assuming that EWR was referring to the original Hebrew words and letters...........I was also assuming that he meant Genesis 1:1, not the entire first chapter.

I haven't even tried with John 1 yet. But I assume that would be the Greek?


edit on 23-8-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2013 @ 11:36 PM
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I think he means the entire first chapter and I'm not sure about the language, I just assumed he meant English but I may be wrong.

Maybe you could try doing the whole chapter and see if that works. I'm not the best with math.



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