California wants to treat 'E Cigarettes' like normal cigarettes.

I read about this about a year or so ago; did some digging and it was because the FDA wants their hands in it... because of the labeling they want it labeled as a nicotine delivery device and if it is then they can regulate the liquids as a drug. They haven't been able to get their way, so I am sure there is a lobby effort to get politicians to introduce nonsense... it makes news, becomes a talking point, everyone agrees something needs to happen... then out of public health and safety it gets pushed to the FDA and they finally get their way and everyone goes back to sleep.

It's just rubbing sticks together to ignite a public debate, that eventually leads to a determination then legislation... anyone that wants their hands in it but can't get in always keeps greasing palms until they can force their foot in the door, so they can finally get their hands on it.

That's how it works folks.

i'm tired of california's crap. no offense to those living there, i know you don't really have control of who makes what law.

the situation in california is the result of rich progressives. i'm all for helping people and the environment, but they go about it in the most foolish ways.

I will make two posts, one for those who are for this regulation, and one for the people who use ecigs.

For those who feel it should be treated like cigarettes:

Let me give you two real world examples as a comparison between ecigs and cigarettes. I used to smoke in my car. Every few weeks I would have to scrub the inside of my windshield to remove the tar buildup on the glass. It was sticky, gross and hard to clean. I vape (by "vape" I mean use my ecig) all the time in my car, sometimes with the windows up entirely. The windows inside my car never appear to have any more than regular dust when I clean. The ecig leaves no residue in my vehicle. That's because the byproduct of an ecig IS JUST VAPOR!

One other quick example:
Blow cigarette smoke in the face of a pet. Hypothetically speaking, since it would be mean to actually do so. If you did, they would run away from it, possibly coughing, then they might go pee on your slippers.
Blow ecig vapor at a pet. They will sniff the air, possibly blink, and otherwise ignore it. This is a repeatable experiment.
Certain flavors seemed to even attract my cat, as if they enjoyed the scent.
Pets have no political agenda and no fear of unfamiliar technology, so they are forced to trust their instincts. Their natural reactions indicate that cigarette smoke is to be avoided, but ecig vapor is of no concern.

Neither example is completely scientific, but I would think useful nonetheless for anyone with an ounce of common sense.

There is no public health hazard to the vapor from ecigs and I challenge anyone to prove otherwise. I'd seriously love to know if there were, but from my own research, not from listening to anyone with a financial interest, my own conclusion is that the only threat to health is the personal choice to continue nicotine consumption and I do not need government to regulate that for me. I see absolutely no first-hand evidence that second-hand vapor is harmful in any way. Of course, nicotine consumption and electronic cigarettes are not mutually exclusive either, and should not be regulated as one and the same.

If public health is not the reason for regulating ecigs, then the most likely explanations have already been provided by other posts.

This is my post for the users of electronic cigarettes.

Vapers, you should have seen this coming. I know I did years ago. I started vaping before vaping was cool (I’m such a hipster) and I always have been cautious about using it in non-smoking environments. Not only did I get tired of explaining it to people every time I used it, I also knew if I flaunted it and challenged the lack of regulations, that eventually the regulations would arrive.

I had a boss that I helped convert to ecigs. We used to sit in her office and vape at work. At a meeting she asked others if they would be bothered by the ecig, and one person said yes. Instead of arguing that their concern was based in ignorance and that it's absolutely nothing like a cigarette, we both simply put them away and did not vape at meetings out of respect for others.

Last year I eventually started seeing people in the mall, at restaurants, etc. not just vaping but doing so with big gestures and plumes of vapor, some were intentionally drawing attention to themselves, most likely just waiting for the inevitable confrontation, giving them the opportunity to be high and mighty and say stuff like "there's no rules against ecigs." and "you can't stop me." I knew this wasn't going to end well, and that someone who didn't understand it would take offense and make noise about the ecig use indoors.

Vapers, If you don't live in CA and don't want these kinds of regulations coming to your area, don't push the system because the system will push back, and we will lose.
If you're vaping in a non-smoking area, do it discreetly. Get away from the crowds, blow the vapor under the table, not in the air. If someone notices, ask them if it bothers them. If it does, you don't have to educate them or force them to be near it, just move away. I only ever had one person who said "yes" when I politely asked in a social setting if anyone minds if I vaped. It's just manners people!

If you're in a setting where it could raise eybrows, just go in the bathroom to vape. It's better than going outside and if it leaves a scent behind at all, it'll only freshen the place. If you don't know how to stealth vape, it's easy. Inhale and hold your breath for 10-15 seconds and when you exhale the vapor will have dissipated to almost nothing. People can't complain about what they can't see.

I'm not implying that we hide the ecig usage like we're doing something wrong, or restrict ourselves only to smoking areas. I'm saying that we must remember that not everyone will see our point of view. I will say that between respect of others, common sense and discreet usage, I've never had a problem using my ecig anywhere. Just be considerate and people are less likely to care enough to bother making rules against it.

I'm sure there will still be jerks out there, blowing vapor in people's faces just to cause trouble and ruin it for everyone, but you don't have to be that guy.

Originally posted by Bootyac
There was a thread a couple of months back about E-Cigs..well they are back in the news.

Cali Bill E Cigs

What a load of poop!! As a heavy smoker for over 25 years,the E Cig has really helped me cut back to the point where I barely even smoke now..

Looks like Feds want to change the laws as well.Did not know about Amtrak though.

What would be really nice, would be if they treated political and banking criminals like normal criminals. Now there'd be a breath of fresh air. How about someone proposes a bill for that?

Cheers - Dave

Originally posted by jimmyb0nz
I think the e-cig is crap, you want to breathe something other than air, do it in your own area. Don't add nicotine to my breathing environment, I don't care what carcinogens you "think" aren't present. If I decide to vaporize some crack and blow it into your airspace, you may have some issues with that, but this is ONLY nicotine we're talking about, nothing harmful right? You're inhaling AND exhaling the substance that took me and many others an eternity to quit, fighting still to this day. It's a substance unnecessary for survival and if someone was puffin an e cig near my child I'd have something to say.

...and that has what to do with this thread, exactly?

reply to post by supermarket2012


1.) He's mad that he had to quit the hard way
2.) He thinks he's superior to people who quit smoking by using e-cigs.
3.) He secretely wants to use e-cigs, knowing they're about as dangerous as a coffee addiction.

So, if you can't quit like a big strong-willed man, why don't you just die already.

I don't know who's worse, ex-smokers who quit cold-turkey or anti-tobacco zealots. Both SHOULD support quitting smoking, in a sane world. There's obviously other psychological forces at work though.

reply to post by Cito


What makes you so sure nicotine alone was the root cause? Cigarettes have 4000 chemicals in them.

reply to post by AlienMenace


Agree with your post. Most who want to outlaw or regulate e-cigs have not one damn clue of what they are talking about. I don't vape or smoke, but know many others that do and even have a business in selling e-cigs, e-liquid and pipes etc. They sell just as many nicotine as they do non-nicotine. Countless stories of people that quit smoking after 30 years feel much better & regained their health. They smoke their pipes everywhere in stores, restaurants, some people do double takes and complain because they see what looks like smoke. One lady was actually coughing as though it was bothering her. That's like complaining about seeing someones breath exhaling in the cold. ROFL!

Originally posted by fnpmitchreturns
OK all you whiners about this drug delivery system called an E-Cig is nothing more than an electronic needle put in your lips to get a dose of a highly addictive nicotine.... let's be honest

My question is why is it so available to start with.........

And coffee cups are nothing more than a paper-chemical filled delivery system to inject those addicts with caffeine. And soda is...

You should really watch the video I posted.

A doctor, proving a point, pours 50 mls of a very potent chemical in a beaker, a chemical thats used in making nuclear warheads, that can dissolve pure rock and stone, it's used in sewage treatment plants and also in deadly biomedical weapons manufacture... and what does he do with it? He drinks it!

Friggen nutcase man... Who in their right mind would drink 50mls of dihydrogen monoxide. !!??!!

reply to post by boncho


I think the doctor just did proving it's safe for humans but not so in other things like aliens maybe?

Originally posted by sean
reply to post by AlienMenace

 

Agree with your post. Most who want to outlaw or regulate e-cigs have not one damn clue of what they are talking about. I don't vape or smoke, but know many others that do and even have a business in selling e-cigs, e-liquid and pipes etc. They sell just as many nicotine as they do non-nicotine. Countless stories of people that quit smoking after 30 years feel much better & regained their health. They smoke their pipes everywhere in stores, restaurants, some people do double takes and complain because they see what looks like smoke. One lady was actually coughing as though it was bothering her. That's like complaining about seeing someones breath exhaling in the cold. ROFL!

You know... The term "slippery slope" gets used quite often. When I was a kid I heard it and the brainwashed parents I had, used to say, "That's bologna!" and, "OMG Think of the children!"... They were, the perfect example of the brainwashed masses.

Yes, it's true, often the governments' actions are a slippery slope. If you create jobs to meddle in peoples' lives, when they have nothing to meddle with, they will look for something new to meddle in. As soon as you allow, "meddling" as legitimate practice, people will get jobs looking to meddle. (By meddle, I mean infringe on people's rights.)

Back in the day, a doctor might see you while puffing on a cigarette. In airplanes, schools, hospitals.. There were no limits. I agree many places ought to have a smoking ban. When they enforced it everywhere, they crossed a line. No, light up a cigarette in a restaurant or mall, and watch the vigilante justice ensue. People will jump out of their seats, "OMG WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING!?"

This generation has been brainwashed.

People see an ecigarette and they get hero syndrome. They secretly want it to be a real smoke, so they can be an hero. So they can jump up and tell someone how wrong they are and how right they are. To be the saviour for all those that might have breathed in a puff of death delivering, wait, stinky smoke. I'm not saying smoke isn't harmful, but for someone walking through a cloud of smoke, they are probably breathing in, or consuming a number of other harmful chemicals throughout the day in their normal activities.

Regular cigarettes, I can see an indoor ban for many reasons. I think they crossed the line when it moved to the bar scene however. Before the ban, some business owners created -smoke free- bars. They didn't do well though, because people wanted to hang out with smokers, they just didn't want them smoking. In any case, not many people will call for smoking to be let back in to public places. Not such a bad thing when you consider the smells, the build up of tar and nicotine and the effects on people who worked in places that were essentially smoke dens, thick enough the air could be cut with a knife. The problem being, this was the ice that covered hills to create a slippery slope.

Banning esmokes? Seriously? You just gave smokers a chance to cut out the disgusting smells, the thousands of harmful chemicals they had to inhale because they enjoyed a natural chemical which has been treated to make it worse than it is naturally.

Esmokes contain two FDA approved food additives and pharm grade nicotine, which, in the proper dosages is not much different than caffeine. For those that would argue nicotine a "dangerous chemical", consider that China has an outright ban on caffeine and it's trading is illegal. Link While it still exports caffeine for a food additive to North America, it's containers are marked with skull and cross bones. Also, caffeine is under restriction in AUS and NZ.

The FDA can't outright ban esmokes, because it's approved all the chemicals therein. And frankly, they just aint that bad.

For those of you that flip out when seeing vapour in the air... Just remember, today you are flipping out at vapour, maybe tomorrow it's a cheeseburger. But your SUV... If you leave that running in an unventilated space, it will kill you. And you liberally pump that into the air I breathe.

I don't care. I don't care about esmoke vapour, or car emissions. Or smoke for that matter. SO long as we get to live our lives unlike a caged animal...

Originally posted by BanTv
reply to post by supermarket2012

 

1.) He's mad that he had to quit the hard way
2.) He thinks he's superior to people who quit smoking by using e-cigs.
3.) He secretely wants to use e-cigs, knowing they're about as dangerous as a coffee addiction.

So, if you can't quit like a big strong-willed man, why don't you just die already.

I don't know who's worse, ex-smokers who quit cold-turkey or anti-tobacco zealots. Both SHOULD support quitting smoking, in a sane world. There's obviously other psychological forces at work though.

edit on 26-5-2013 by BanTv because: edddddit

It's kind of like ex-porn addicts wanting to ban all porn. Or the evangelical zealots that want to ban homosexuality, because they have homosexual tendencies they can't work through...

reply to post by AlienMenace

Vapers, If you don't live in CA and don't want these kinds of regulations coming to your area, don't push the system because the system will push back, and we will lose.
If you're vaping in a non-smoking area, do it discreetly. Get away from the crowds, blow the vapor under the table, not in the air. If someone notices, ask them if it bothers them. If it does, you don't have to educate them or force them to be near it, just move away. I only ever had one person who said "yes" when I politely asked in a social setting if anyone minds if I vaped. It's just manners people!

The problem with that, is they should outlaw being a dick to people, not ecigs themselves. There are many things they can outlaw, or regulate, and they have.

Hell, I think we all remember that fat, jelly-doughnut eating glorified security-guard beach cop, who ended up beating a young teenage kid because he didn't want him riding a skateboard on his beat. He proceeded to threaten the kids with him because they were filming.

Just ban being a tool, being an asshole, being a complete dick to people. Then you don't have to make stupid bans on everything that can be used responsibly if one so chooses.

Yes, people are provocative with esmokes, because of the knee-jerk reactions the brainwashed masses have. Some people are just so sick of self-righteous, morally indignant idiots who think they are Captain America, Wonder Woman.... Can you blame them all?

"While the health effect is a matter of debate and further study, Corbett said the state should err on the side of protecting the public."

Isn't it strange how we don't see the same argument presented where GMO food is concerned. Seems that where big money is involved, public protection takes a back seat.

After being lifelong smokers, me and my wife quit smoking cigs for an ecig. It's the only thing that ever worked. I tried the patch and it didn't work. I tried one of the pencil ecigs, no good. Now we use a mod, and no more cigs. We can actually breath again. I get the what-the-hell-is-that reaction a lot. At work, I go outside to use it or in the back where people can't see me. At a bar, I use it at the bar. People are getting more used to ecigs though. But still, they are not that common. I know some people are upset about Cali, land of the weird. But I consider some form of government regulation inevitable for what is basically a drug delivery system. What did you expect? The pols and bureaucrats have their sticky fingers in everything, so ecigs will be no exception.

Switching to e-cigs is the best thing I ever did. I can breathe now and I don't stink like smoke. I would highly recommend them to anyone.

Originally posted by reeferman
this just proves how stupid the government is.. either they are bought & paid for by big tobacco or they are idiots..

Or not!

What if bills like this are put forward so people focus on them instead of bills that are slid under the radar. I'd wonder what else was floating in the pot before steering my own little eye of Sauron at something like E-cigs.

Sponsored politicians coupled with corporate media is rarely truthful imo and the agendas run deeper than face value me thinks.

reply to post by BanTv


BanTV What's your problem?

1.) He's mad that he had to quit the hard way
2.) He thinks he's superior to people who quit smoking by using e-cigs.
3.) He secretely wants to use e-cigs, knowing they're about as dangerous as a coffee addiction.

So, if you can't quit like a big strong-willed man, why don't you just die already.

You really should take some xanax.

Stuff like this does not happen because they are stupid but because they are corrupt!
If more people quit smoking that's more people that are healthier ( less money for healthcare industry)!
Less people that buy cigarettes (less monies for Tobacco industry)!
Less people smoking means less taxes collected by federal government (less monies for the federal government)!