California wants to treat 'E Cigarettes' like normal cigarettes.

There was a thread a couple of months back about E-Cigs..well they are back in the news.

Cali Bill E Cigs

What a load of poop!! As a heavy smoker for over 25 years,the E Cig has really helped me cut back to the point where I barely even smoke now..

Looks like Feds want to change the laws as well.Did not know about Amtrak though.

Reply to post by Bootyac

Germany here! They tried. We fought back! Victory!! ...this time


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That's a pretty thoughtless piece of legislation.

But unsurprising.

I'm sure the vapours from nicotine gum are dangerous to people standing down your throat too, so they should do the same with that.

The carcinogenic particulate in the burnt smoke is the health problem. The nicotine is the addiction. There is no burnt substance in the vapour.

God people that legislate for the sake of it, with no logic or thought applied, piss me off.

stupid... but no doubt some waify vegan edge-meister will agree with it and call it a win for social justice.

-- having said that, I don't smoke cigarettes and I can't stand people who smoke them around me in public, say, at the food hall or other eating area, as they stand under the "Do Not Smoke" sign scoffing at your disbelief and then scurrying along as you move swiftly towards them with a tray full of rice crackers and chicken wings. nothing good ensues in that situation...

reply to post by Bootyac


this just proves how stupid the government is.. either they are bought & paid for by big tobacco or they are idiots..

so, nicotine is inhaled & water vapor is exhaled with only the smell like a car freshener left no more harmful than an asthma inhaler...

but they want you to stand outside with people giving off second hand smoke they themselves passed a bill to force people outside in the first place because of the harmful effects..

someone should sue them for putting them in a known potentially harmful second-hand smoke cancer causing space..

fools, each & every one of them I tell ya...

reply to post by Bootyac


Huge, vast mistake. The thing that defines the badness of cigarettes is the second hand smoke, which can harm and addict people around. If you want to manage the nicotine addiction, first manage its viral spread through second hand smoke. Neither e-gigs, nor gum, nor patches have this viral quality. Governments should be downright subsidizing them. Get all nicotine addicts ingesting it in a form that doesn't damage or addict other people, that will be a start.

so 'treated like normal cigarettes' equates exactly to 'we can tax the living crap out of them' and introduce even further draconian legislation that has no regard for what actually benefits the public. it's this kind of insanity that has to stop.

if corporations want to be treated like people then they should be held as responsible for their emissions. the hypocrisy and pandering is staggering.

i love my e-cig, i think it might have very really saved my life, but if they want to regulate that then i'll quit it, too. i got sick of giving horrible people my money so i could smoke cigarettes, i'm not going to give these people money so i can vape.

It took decades to prove in court that actual cigarettes are harmful to users and that there is an addictive agenda.

Now it takes only Months to lobby against the alternative?

I call TAX grab and Big tobacco lobbyist corruption.

Sorry, but I'm angry right now and call it as I see it. As many others should.

Peace

Originally posted by godWhisperer
so 'treated like normal cigarettes' equates exactly to 'we can tax the living crap out of them' and introduce even further draconian legislation that has no regard for what actually benefits the public. it's this kind of insanity that has to stop.

if corporations want to be treated like people then they should be held as responsible for their emissions. the hypocrasy and pandering is staggering.

i love my e-cig, i think it might have very really saved my life, but if they want to regulate that then i'll quit it, too. i got sick of giving horrible people my money so i could smoke cigarettes, i'm not going to give these people money so i can vape.

Right, that's exactly the problem. These governments taxed cigs in the first place, under the auspices of improving public health. But that tax stream has become a big part of their income. So now we have these solutions that don't addict or harm people through second hand smoke, and the government wants to tax them. Why? Because they've crossed the Rubicon, and now see the cigarette taxes as such an important part of their income they need to actively promote cigarette addiction by wiping out less dangerous substitutes. This is bad, bad, bad legislation.

reply to post by tridentblue


and at this point, i wouldn't be surprised if the death and disease caused by cigarettes aren't just a happy biproduct of a high-margin product.

besides, especially in california, they make an even bigger killing with you dying in the hospital with sub-standard care.

Oh it's a constant battle. Check out this: Legislation News

The group fighting for our right to use a safer alternative: CASAA

This isn't just Big Tobacco trying to rape us, no no no. They see a huge profit in pre-filled disposable e-cigs. That's bad for us because there are bigger, more effective e-cigs that you can use. Hundreds of flavors, satisfying throat-hit (instead of feeling like a gimmick), DIY if you want, MUCH cheaper than cigarettes, etc. BT doesn't want that.

What's REALLY sickening is BIG PHARMA. Words can't describe the rage and disgust I feel when I think about groups like the American Lung Association, American Cancer Society, and ASH (Action on Smoking and Health). ASH I believe are genuine Anti-Tobacco zealots who are now Anti-Nicotine zealots with the invention of e-cigs. ACS and ALA are absolutely in the pocket of BP. It's absolutely disgusting that organizations promoting "public health" are against these life saving nicotine delivery devices. It makes my blood boil.

If you are a smoker, an ex-smoker, a vaper, have a loved one who smokes, or had a loved one die from smoking, this should ENRAGE you. Even if you currently smoke and don't want to quit, some day in the near future you may want to. Do you want to pay less than $50/month if you make the switch, or pay hundreds a month just like buying cigarettes?

I don't know what to do, says send an e-mail to my senate rep but he doesn't even have an e-mail. How are you in the freekin senate but you don't have an e-mail? get out of office kind sir. I'm ready to drive to sacramento to meet some fellow vapers in protest. could be fun. I've been vaping for 2 months, still have yet to see a brick and mortar store, there is only one in Sacramento I think. This legislation could easily be passed which would be a criminal action from the legislature(in my mind . Who exactly is supporting this trash exactly, they should be blacklisted, and replaced with better Politicians. recall recall recall them all

Originally posted by godWhisperer
so 'treated like normal cigarettes' equates exactly to 'we can tax the living crap out of them' and introduce even further draconian legislation that has no regard for what actually benefits the public. it's this kind of insanity that has to stop.

if corporations want to be treated like people then they should be held as responsible for their emissions. the hypocrisy and pandering is staggering.

i love my e-cig, i think it might have very really saved my life, but if they want to regulate that then i'll quit it, too. i got sick of giving horrible people my money so i could smoke cigarettes, i'm not going to give these people money so i can vape.

edit on 5/25/13 by godWhisperer because: spelling

I agree with you mate.

Been vaping on my ecigs for over two years now and counting. (my wife has been too) That's after being a heavy smoker of the poisonous cancer sticks for over 30 years.

The Big Pharma crap, patches, gum, drugs, inhalers didn't do the slightest thing for me or my wife...in fact they did do something....they made me crave smoking even more!

Ecigs tried and have never looked back. They are superior to cigarettes in every way.

In terms of safety, in terms of being much healthier for me and people around me, they don't set your home on fire if you fall asleep with one in your hand, they don't pollute the air around and they are very clean...and they get you off the curse of cigarettes easily.

Add in the sheer mind blowing amount of choice with ecigs and this legislation is shown for what it is...a tax grab.

Ecigs are 85% + effective at helping people quit tobacco and cigarettes...and the government stands to lose Billions in tobacco sales tax every year...a high tax put on tobacco products supposedly as an 'incitement' to people to either not smoke or limit how much they smoke...a punitive tax they do not want to lose, so now they see the success of Ecigs displacing the Tobacco market, and their tax earning cash cow and are worried.

They should be celebrating the public health dividend that will be gained from ecigs, but instead, as all too often is the case, all they care about is money.

I say let the government tax them as cigarettes if they want, they cannot justify it and will expose themselves to the people, as the corrupt money grabbing criminals that they really are, and not the public servants they ought to be.

Besides, if you had to, it is simple to make both ones own ecig device (a battery, + and - wires and a small coil) and to make ones own e-liquid from easily obtainable and cheap vegetable glycerin, steeped home grown tobacco leaves (or many other nicotine containing plants) and food / candy flavourings.

They can't tax what you don't buy can they!

Or better still, order in bulk from China, a few years worth of supplies at a time.

About 25% - 35% of the cost of buying domestically if you go direct to China. I just made an order to a Chinese contact worth about $700...saved myself about $1500 over what i would have paid in the UK or USA or EU.

So not only will they force a lot of people back to killer tobacco cigarettes and all the economic knock on effects to healthcare and family that it brings, but they will also lose out on legitimate ecig taxation, the sales tax or VAT of about 20% in the UK.

Either way, they'll never prevent me from using my ecigs, or try to tax me to the hilt with a tax that was only ever designed to stop me smoking harmful Tobacco, not to stop me using a device and liquid that actually did stop me smoking harmful tobacco!

Can't we just round up all the greedy, corrupt arseholes ruining our lives and put them in a cage for kids to poke with sticks...or something?

It has always been about the fascists, liberals ultimate desire and goal to control how you THINK, through external means of what you MUST DO and MUST DO NOT.

I wonder if they want to add something to the formula to increase sales and repeat customers.

I think the e-cig is crap, you want to breathe something other than air, do it in your own area. Don't add nicotine to my breathing environment, I don't care what carcinogens you "think" aren't present. If I decide to vaporize some crack and blow it into your airspace, you may have some issues with that, but this is ONLY nicotine we're talking about, nothing harmful right? You're inhaling AND exhaling the substance that took me and many others an eternity to quit, fighting still to this day. It's a substance unnecessary for survival and if someone was puffin an e cig near my child I'd have something to say.

“Supposedly, governments were invented to make human life easier and safer.

Governments always end up enslaving humanity. That which we create to “serve” us ends up ruling us.
The U.S. government by and for the people… now imprisons millions, takes half the national income by force, Over-regulates, punishes, tortures, slaughters foreigners, invades countries, overthrows governments, imposes 700 imperialistic bases overseas, inflates the currency, and crashes future generations with massive debts.

That which we create to serve us ends up ruling us.

Originally posted by jimmyb0nz
I think the e-cig is crap, you want to breathe something other than air, do it in your own area. Don't add nicotine to my breathing environment, I don't care what carcinogens you "think" aren't present. If I decide to vaporize some crack and blow it into your airspace, you may have some issues with that, but this is ONLY nicotine we're talking about, nothing harmful right? You're inhaling AND exhaling the substance that took me and many others an eternity to quit, fighting still to this day. It's a substance unnecessary for survival and if someone was puffin an e cig near my child I'd have something to say.

Your child gets more toxins and carcinogens when he walks to school than from e cig vapour

reply to post by madenusa


So I have a question here for anyone that cares to reply.

With the invention of e-cigs and their popularity, it has become very clear to one and all, that the anti-tobacco campaign was never about "public health". It was always about money, power and control.

Does anyone disagree with this statement?

And further, if it was about money, power and control, it was done by convincing the public that smokers are filthy, disease-causing organisms that must be driven out of the public and away from "decent" people (a campaign of dehumanizing people and making it ok to financially rape them and deny them public benefits that they paid for)

Does anyone disagree with this statement?

Then here is my question? Could it be that they lied and lied and lied about the health effects of smoking tobacco?

After all - despite over 60 years of intensive research, no scientist has ever been able to determine exactly how tobacco smoking causes any disease (including lung cancer).

And despite the sound bite advertising that smoking is the CAUSE of over 80 % of lung cancer cases, the incidence of lung cancer has not decreased despite the fact that the incidence of smoking in the population has decreased by over 60 % and this decrease occurred almost 40 years ago?

Tired of Control Freaks