Minnesota Becomes the Twelfth State to Sanction Same-Sex Marriage

since this is about Minnesota, how has any religious freedoms been affected?

how has this taken any rights away from the religious groups in Minnesota?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Religion is not telling them no..the Federal and State governments are. There is TONS of money that is thrown at this and like i was trying to show, the government is simply using the LGBT movement like it did woman suffrage and then equality for blacks. They do not care or if would be legal now.

However, by using it, they can erode the rights of the religious who are the greatest opponent of same sex marriage. The church will still make money and does not care. There are 'gay only' based religious sects so when some one here say religion has overstepped its boundaries, they are wrong. It is ALL us against the establishment.

People, all people, have the right to do what they want, when they want and however they want according to the founding fathers. There is NOTHING in the BIll of Rights or Constitution that says gay marriage is not legal. So why is it an issue? Not because of religion...Because it can be used to erode rights and pass laws by the government that is currently in charge.

This is Progressives in action. Contraception was created to stop minorities from breeding as it was so kindly put in the early 1900's. Abortion is funded to keep minorities from breeding. Follow the money trail. All they Progressive wants is to 'know' who is gay so that in the public eye, they can disgrace them as needed. A person does not need to be religious to be a bigot.

The LGBT is being played like everyone other group who wanted special rights or 'equal rights' before it.

reply to post by esdad71


Do you just slide down a slippery slope and grab whatever enters your head?

You're all over the place.

Religion is a chosen belief. It has no business projecting itself onto anyone.

There is not one legitimate logical reason to deny a couple Legal Government Marriage because of gender.

Sure, the religious can line the streets with signs professing the sins of gays -- that is free speech.

But they can not use their belief to prevent Equal Rights. And NO --- no one is taking their belief away. They have full rights to their belief.

Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Same-Sex marriage is a very large issue. Something that is ridiculous to you is very serious to someone else for many reasons and the publics opinion should matter in something that is to be legalized. When it is legalized, it will open a lot of doors for things you may not think of right away that do not affect you but may affect others.

What are the other doors? I have read that one door that is firmly closed for gay couples in the USA is access to reasonable health insurance because they are classed as singles and therefore cannot get a couples discount on their insurance for instance.

If you mean other perversions like marrying animals etc, I think you will find that we are expanding the marriage law to include 2 consenting adults of legal age and of no relation. That's pretty black and white isn't it? I know that religious law does not allow for anything more that a man and a woman of legal sexual age and no relation but the church has rightfully been excluded here in Minnesota. I don't have a problem with that and I doubt many other gay folk will either.

What we need is for unity now, the law has passed and like a tax hike, you can't do much about it. But with this law if everyone says, yep that's it, nothing else then the other doors I mentioned in the above paragraph will stay closed as decent gay people are just as against them as the decent heterosexual community.

reply to post by Annee


Why are you telling me, how about your government. That was the point. It is not religion stopping it, it is YOUR government. Mr Barry Sorento. The socialist. You had a better chance with Cheney in office who has a daughter who is gay who he loves and supports.

Why your hate of religion when it is not even them.

Your feeble attempts to mock or cut me down also mean nothing... I think you need to regroup and go read about the history of this country.

reply to post by markosity1973


Why the beastialtiy with those supporting same sex marriage. Health care is available to same sex couples and they do not even need to be married. Where have you been the last 10 years.

Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by markosity1973

 

Why the beastialtiy with those supporting same sex marriage. Health care is available to same sex couples and they do not even need to be married. Where have you been the last 10 years.

I was questioning what the other doors are you worry will open - a lot of people using the faulty logic argument that gay marriage will open the door to marrying animals and children. I can see by your response that you do not suffer that same logic flaw.

As a gay person I do take on board the genuine non religious concerns people have over marriage and the effect it will have in greater society, but so far all I hear is a bunch of people tossing their toys out of the cot because they are homophobic, not because it is actually going to harm society.

And as for the health insurance, I stand corrected. I was reading this brochure which is perhaps out of date then. I am not from the states and made the fatal assumption that I was reading something up to date and relevant.

Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by Annee

 

Why are you telling me, how about your government. That was the point. It is not religion stopping it, it is YOUR government. Mr Barry Sorento. The socialist. You had a better chance with Cheney in office who has a daughter who is gay who he loves and supports.

Why your hate of religion when it is not even

Where did I say I hated religion? You see, you magnify stuff into a bigger deal then it is.

I did say those with religious belief are individuals and responsible for how they "drive" it -- using a vehicle as a metaphor. There are many religious believers fighting for Equality for gays.

Barack Hussein Obama ll is our president. That is his legal birth name. You are just reaching for anything.

Is the American government allowing Marriage Equality to play out? Yes, it is. However, the opposition is still religious based.

Originally posted by markosity1973

And as for the health insurance, I stand corrected.

You aren't entirely wrong.

Most health care still comes through an employer. Not all states have non-discrimination laws for gays. There are ways of getting around offering health care.

And, where most insurance covers spouse and children, that does not always apply to same sex partners.

It is not black and white.

reply to post by esdad71

Originally posted by esdad71
Why are you telling me, how about your government. That was the point. It is not religion stopping it, it is YOUR government. Mr Barry Sorento.

You think the president can wave a wand and make gay marriage legal? If he could, he would, as he supports it. If you knew how laws were made and changed here, you'd know that's not how it works. The president is not a dictator. Marriage is a contract of the STATE, anyway, not the country.

I think you need to regroup and go read about the history of this country.

Perhaps you should, as well. This might help:

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I try to be civil in here and I tire of the subtle and not so subtle ways you try to challenge someones intelligence. I know how a bill is made. Many of you are simply saying religion is the main cause of same sex marriage not being legal and how powerful the lobby is. If the religious lobby was, it would not be recognized in over 10 states.
It is your government. I used Barry because he is at the top and has flip flopped on LGBT rights for votes, plain and simple. If and when the government wants it, it will allow it to happen. He is not FOR it, he has said he is FOR it for votes. That's it. Like you have said, the secular world is upon us. So, you WANT no religion and are glad for it. Do not backpedal now.

As far as history, I tried to explain to you why the government is using the LGBT movement as it did blacks in the 60's and women in the early 1900's. Again, why with the attacks when I am answering questions and posing scenarios.

reply to post by Annee


As far as healthcare, it is not the provider it is the employer that will generally allow for 'domestic partner' coverage as it is called. I had it for my wife before we were married TEN years ago. It is not something new. You have to ask for it sometimes as the employer may not advertise it because it will usually cost the employer more.

reply to post by Annee

Is the American government allowing Marriage Equality to play out? Yes, it is. However, the opposition is still religious based.

You see, again with the religion. It is all not religious based. You keep takling about how religion has

Religion has overstepped it's limits in this country.

Fortunately, the secular side is getting stronger, and winning most of the challenges.

I know when I chose to step completely out of the "God Circle" -- it was like a huge weight was lifted off me and I was free. As far as religion having control over laws, it's a constant fight.

Yes, according to recent polls organized religion is losing its flock at an ever increasing rate. America is a secular country, although its a constant battle.

These are all anti-religion. Maybe I should not use the word hate because I do not know you enough to make that judgement. But for someone to 'step' away from and support the other side of an argument there is usually some hate there.

The same couple of people spewing the same old things and jacking another thread. Yawn. Doesn't it get old? It does for us.

Originally posted by esdad71

These are all anti-religion. Maybe I should not use the word hate because I do not know you enough to make that judgement. But for someone to 'step' away from and support the other side of an argument there is usually some hate there.

They are just facts. My facts if you want to be specific.

Also "anti" and "hate" are not the same thing.

Religion works for some, but again, they are responsible in how they "drive" it. When they try to force their god belief on others through legislation --- that is not OK.

Anti-discrimination laws do not force belief on anyone. Equal treatment by law is not a belief.

FACT: #1 opposition to marriage equality is religious based.

reply to post by Annee


And has what to do with the topic? Nothing. This is about Minnesota sanctioning same sex marriage.

This thread has nothing to do with religion. Marriage is a secular, legal contract on a state-by-state basis. I think "religion vs gay marriage" is an interesting topic, but perhaps for another thread.

This thread has already been closed once and I asked for it to be reopened. (I don't know if that had any influence on it being reopened) but I really don't want it to be closed again.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Sorry, Intrepid, we posted at the same time.

Any further off topic posts will be dealt with by post bans.