Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

Minnesota Becomes the Twelfth State to Sanction Same-Sex Marriage

page: 9
12
<< 6  7  8    10  11 >>

log in

join

posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 11:33 AM
link   
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Public opinion polls are used to see how the consensus would react to a new law or bill if introduced most times. Happens a lot more during election cycles. If they did a poll in a city or state and it is 18% for same sex marriage, there would be a lot of ground work to do to make sure it was passed. They are testing perception of an idea.

Same-Sex marriage is a very large issue. Something that is ridiculous to you is very serious to someone else for many reasons and the publics opinion should matter in something that is to be legalized. When it is legalized, it will open a lot of doors for things you may not think of right away that do not affect you but may affect others.

This is a good article on how it may help....I agree with most of them

1. More taxes
2. Better benefit cost and easier to get
3. Pump the economy with weddings and what goes with it
4. (read article)

Link 1

The argument comes from the fact that 'marriage' will need to be redefined and what impact it could have. When marriage is no longer legally recognized as a natural and social institution between a man and a woman for the reproduction of the human race as it has for centuries, not even in a religious sense, it can be regarded or defined as a privatized relationship based primarily on the desires of the partners.

Look at this list of pros and cons...see if you agree with all of what is on one side or the other...I can't agree with all but then again I am not against it....

Link

Just as we should open our minds to those who want same sex marriage we should not close our minds to those who do not believe in it. We all have a voice, do we not?






edit on 21-6-2013 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-6-2013 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 12:15 PM
link   
Why does anyone have to 'Vote' to 'Legalize' same sex marriage?

if the constitution claims a separation of church and state than holy laws don't apply, so it can't be for religious reasons, and again if the constitution claims 'all men are created equal' why are we different?

i have always defended anyone's right to think, speak, express in the freedom they select, but why are our lives dictated by people who don't want us that privilege if we select to get married?

Based off 'Sins' and 'sodomy' and this alleged 'Gay agenda'



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 12:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
Why does anyone have to 'Vote' to 'Legalize' same sex marriage?


I agree with you. Voting on equality for gay's to marry is wrong.

However, I'd say its "social engineering". Present the idea, increase visibility, get more people used to the idea until you have a majority of acceptance.

With majority in favor, it becomes inevitable, and the naysayers have no choice but to accept it (at least legally).

Social engineering prevents massive chaos.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 12:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by Darth_Prime

Based off 'Sins' and 'sodomy' and this alleged 'Gay agenda'


Uh yeah. Extreme fundamental Christians believe 100% that the emergence of accepting homosexuals is part of the Armageddon, the end of the world, an abomination to God.

They 100% believe it is their duty to God to do everything in their power to stop it. It's a life and death thing for them.

Do I have any sympathy for them? NOPE - NADA - ZERO

edit on 21-6-2013 by Annee because: DAMN QUOTES



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 12:37 PM
link   
reply to post by Annee
 


Hhhhm but sometimes TPTB have to go against public opinion, for example here in the UK we do not have the death penalty but poll after poll says that the majority want it back...that is where TPTB have to say no for the good of our culture and it is the right thing to do.
(BTW Iam very against the death penalty)



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 12:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by Annee
 


Hhhhm but sometimes TPTB have to go against public opinion, for example here in the UK we do not have the death penalty but poll after poll says that the majority want it back...that is where TPTB have to say no for the good of our culture and it is the right thing to do.
(BTW Iam very against the death penalty)


True.

But, you are aware of the problem of Fundamental Christians in America. They think they own the place.

They are a very strong political force. They've been placated and handled with kid gloves, but you see which direction gay rights is going. Equal Rights will win in the end.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 12:48 PM
link   
reply to post by Annee
 


They will disappear just like they have here in the UK, we have become a secular society despite what Cameron says, people in the UK don't goto church and people only put Christian on the census forms because their Grans did.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 12:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by Annee
 


They will disappear just like they have here in the UK, we have become a secular society despite what Cameron says, people in the UK don't goto church and people only put Christian on the census forms because their Grans did.


Yes, according to recent polls organized religion is losing its flock at an ever increasing rate.

America is a secular country, although its a constant battle.

Since the major opposition to gay marriage is religion, the religious argument has no validity. So equal rights will win - eventually.

edit on 21-6-2013 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 12:59 PM
link   
reply to post by Annee
 


I sure hope so.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 01:10 PM
link   
Likewise, especially since religion has, or should have no power over the 'laws'

Condragulations to Minnesota once again, i can only hope the rest of the USA continue to push onwards for Equality



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 01:12 PM
link   
reply to post by Annee
 


What is wrong with religion other than the fact they do not for the majority agree with your views on same sex marriage? It is not that religion has 'control' over laws. The LGBT lobby is just growing larger and having laws passed that prevent those with religious views from having rights. How can you be ok with taking rights from one person and making sure another has one such as the right to marry?
edit on 21-6-2013 by esdad71 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 01:23 PM
link   
reply to post by esdad71
 


how are they taking rights away from the religious?

in what way do allowing same sex marriage, and equal rights to anyone, gay straight, black or white, take away the 'religious rights'?



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 01:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by esdad71
reply to post by Annee
 


What is wrong with religion other than the fact they do not for the majority agree with your views on same sex marriage? It is not that religion has 'control' over laws.


Religion is the man-made vehicle of an individual who believes it. Each individual is responsible for their thoughts and actions in how they drive their vehicle --- or should be.

I've attended many churches in my lifetime. One thing that is prevalent is that congregating in a same thought environment creates a hypnotic affect. It does have a euphoric effect, and I can see why many people fall for it.

I know when I chose to step completely out of the "God Circle" -- it was like a huge weight was lifted off me and I was free.

As far as religion having control over laws, it's a constant fight. Being 64, I've watched the secular assertion over the years for separation of church and state. It's still an every day battle.

Fortunately, the secular side is getting stronger, and winning most of the challenges.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 01:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by Darth_Prime
reply to post by esdad71
 


how are they taking rights away from the religious?



They're not.

Religion has overstepped it's limits in this country.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 02:08 PM
link   
reply to post by Annee
 


Overstepped its limits? So, you feel ok with telling religion they are wrong why your promote LGBT rights? Is that not a little hypocritical to equal rights for all.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 02:13 PM
link   
reply to post by Annee
 


So, since you have decided that religion is not right for you it seems you have taken sides. I am not a strong proponent of religion (raised Irish Catholic) and understand what it is like to step out of the 'guilt circle' as I call it. However, if someone needs religion they should be able to express their views, even if it goes against someone who may be LGBT.

Why the hate of the church? You know if is not just the church that does not like gay marriage. There are plenty of non religious folks who do not agree so what is your argument there.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 02:20 PM
link   
reply to post by esdad71
 



Originally posted by esdad71
What is wrong with religion other than the fact they do not for the majority agree with your views on same sex marriage?


What's wrong with religion is that they think they have the authority to force people, through laws, to behave according to their religion.



It is not that religion has 'control' over laws.


The religious right most certainly successfully exerts pressure on politicians AND elects religious people to legislative positions to make laws that force people to behave according to their religion. That's what the "fight" for gay rights is all about. If religion wasn't so powerful a lobby, there would be no such thing as a "fight" for gay rights.



The LGBT lobby is just growing larger and having laws passed that prevent those with religious views from having rights.


Once again, your gay neighbor getting married has NO effect on your right to have and practice your religion. And this is a common religious view. Many religious people think that if gay people have equal rights, that it's a direct affront to them, when really, it has nothing to do with them.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 02:30 PM
link   
reply to post by esdad71
 



Originally posted by esdad71
Overstepped its limits? So, you feel ok with telling religion they are wrong why your promote LGBT rights?


There's nothing wrong with having a religion. Nothing wrong with going to church, praying, singing, praising God, refusing birth control, doing good in the community, marrying in the church, having children, teaching your children your beliefs, etc. People are free to have their religion and to express their views.

Where it "goes wrong" is when it forces others to live according to their beliefs, in the form of anti-abortion laws, anti-gay marriage laws, anti-contraception laws, etc. If the religious in the US had their way, they'd force everyone to go to church, pray, etc. They won't leave other people alone. That's where they're "wrong".

There's a difference between living as a Christian and making everyone else live as you think they should.

Promoting LGBT rights is fighting against the religious rule that made the anti-gay laws in the first place. Religion has to step back and stand down. They are overstepping their limits.



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 02:33 PM
link   
So basically, in a nutshell, you are all saying this all Religion against Homosexuality and vice versa?



posted on Jun, 21 2013 @ 02:40 PM
link   
No one is voting to deny religious rights to people...

It's not like "the religious vs the gays". It like gay people want equal rights (like other minority groups before them) and religion is telling them NO with every effort they can manage.





new topics

top topics



 
12
<< 6  7  8    10  11 >>

log in

join