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Originally posted by mindlessbrainpower89
POST REMOVED BY STAFF
Some religious liberals believe that David and Jonathan had a consensual homosexual relationship - in many ways, a prototype of many of today's gay partnerships. 7 Some important verses which describe their relationship are:
1 Samuel 18:1
"...Jonathan became one in spirit with David and he loved him as himself." (NIV)
"...the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul" (KJV)
Most translations use the term "soul" rather than "spirit" to describe the bond. They speak of an "immediate bond of love", their souls being "in unison," their souls being "knit" etc. Genesis 2:7, as written in the original Hebrew, describes how God blew the spirit into the body of Adam that God had formed from earth, so that Adam became a living soul. This means that "soul", in the ancient Israelite times, represents a combination of body and spirit. Thus the two men appear to have loved each other both physically and emotionally.
1 Samuel 18:2
"From that day, Saul kept David with him and did not let him return to his father's house." (NIV)
David left his parent's home and moved to Saul's where he would be with Jonathan. This is a strong indication that the relationship was extremely close. It echoes the passage marriage passage in Genesis 2:24: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."
1 Samuel 18:3-4
"And Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as himself. Jonathan took off the robe he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his tunic, and even his sword, his bow and his belt." (NIV)
Since people in those days did not wear underwear, Jonathan stripped himself naked in front of David. That would be considered extremely unusual behavior (then and now) unless their relationship was sexual in nature.
Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
What you really mean is Minnesota is the 12 state to legalize sodomy between same sex couples.
Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
Tell you guys what - I'll accept you can get married in any state - so long as you sign a contract with the state to Not commit sodomy. They can monitor your bedroom habits and if you are found to commit sodomy, they can arrest you and throw the book at you - now - do you want love or sick sodomy? Your choice - but i suppose you wont be happy with that. oh well.
Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Right now?
That doesnt strike you as a little Jim Crow-ish?
The "right now" thing comes off as very socially conservative and even foolish considering both of you concede that even eventually the point will be moot.
So why help society retard its own development? Is it a fear of the "unknown" or just a love for government involvement?
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Really? Can you say hyperbole? If state-sanctioned marriage was something being forced on people, then you might have a point. A weak one, at best, however. No one is forcing couples to petition the state for a marriage license. It's something they FREELY choose to do (well, straight people are free to choose it). Your Jim Crow analogy is so weak, it's meaningless.
Our society is naturally moving away from conventional marriage. People's mindsets are changing. This is how societal change happens. If you want to force it, contact your representatives. Don't preach at me and try to insult me with your Jim Crow references.
How am I helping society retard it's development?
What would a person do to get government out of marriage?
Minnesota Becomes the Twelfth State to Sanction Same-Sex Marriage
Also, those who cannot conduct themselves in a civil manner, and post on topic...will continue to have posts removed with the real possibility of temporary Posting Bans.
A poll by the Star Tribune published Thursday found 46 percent of those surveyed support the law change that will allow marriage between same-sex couples beginning on Aug. 1. Forty-four percent are opposed and 10 percent are undecided
Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Right now? Not ask the government for permission. Perform whatever ritual you see fit. Get a family lawyer and set up a trust or living will.