Do we love war?

I have noticed a growing divide here on ATS. It is starting to get even worse amoung the American members. There seems to be a growing opinion that war is good and makes you feel youthful and alive. Im not sure whats going on with the mentality of the US right now, but I know one thing is for sure, if we dont solve our differences now, S**t is going to hit the fan here in our homeland soon. So I want to know, What is it that turns people on to this war? Why do so many people approve of it? These questions go both ways also. If you dont agree with the warmongering, then why? If you dont approve of the war tell me why. One last thing. I am strictly talking about the war in Iraq.

Just so there is no slamming me for being below 18 for this post, you should know something about me. Im not 18, and I was in the first Gulf War. Im not just a young kid with an impressionable mind, I do have experience with the questions Im asking.

[edit on 11/5/04 by Kidfinger]

[edit on 11/5/04 by Kidfinger]

Yeah...I think some people find it, and all the surroundings of war, exciting or something.....I do believe that there are things worth fighting for and that there are things worth laying down your life for.....I would fight if I had to to protect personal freedom for my children and grandchildren.

We have turned into a society and economy driven by war. Without war the country has no collective purpose and stagnates. Bush has done nothing to hinder this, either. The US cannot exist without war. Sad, but true.

Oh well, now we will see if us Liberals were wrong, won't we????

It seems to me that people as a whole thrive on fear. I see examples of fear being introduced to society every day. Either in the form of terroriist threats and warnings, reminders of our troops dying everyday, stories of soldiers being slaughtered, and stories of extreme bravery in the face of unsurmountable fear. Thats just on the international level. On a local level, it hits even closer to home. Two days ago, my wounderful home town of Louisville Ky. surpassed the murder rate of 2003. Every day, all I hear about is terror and murder. Is this something that humans must have in order to survive?

When you have a budget of 400 billion, you need to use the surplus. What better way than war?

[edit on 5-11-2004 by SpittinCobra]

Originally posted by Tesla
Oh well, now we will see if us Liberals were wrong, won't we????

I'm not even a liberal....or so I'm being told....

*I do not believe in abortion except under certain circumstances.
*I believe in the death penalty
*I don't give a flying rip if two gay people love each other and want to commit through marriage
*I don't believe in war unless it is to protect ourselves, and it doesn't cut off our nose to spite our face
*I believe that if you don't protect out environment....we won't have to worry about the future of anyone's grandchildren....because there wont be one...

it's not just the liberals that don't like Bush....I can only say I hope and pray we are wrong, but I doubt it. I think people really love their war

War - I despise it in whole, unless it is invasion of the homeland, and I am NOT talking about 3rd party homeland.

War in Iraq - ya ya, terrorism. I have a comeback to that, but I would surely get banned, so improvise.
War in Iraq was based on lies. Don't say "mis-information" or any similarity thereof, we were lied to and MANY Americans KNEW IT - but could not change it - Bush had his mind set and was going in. Fer fu*k sakes, he even declared it to the wolrd "you are either with us, or you're against us". To me, that is, at the core, a declaration of war on the world, and we ain't talkin' about Orson this time.

Originally posted by Kidfinger
Is this something that humans must have in order to survive?

I don't know about humans in whole, as there are far too many countries that get along just fine, both socially and economically, WITHOUT WAR !!

Not dissin' you Kid, dissin' the warmongers

Misfit

WAR? NO!

CAPITALIZED TITLES, HELL YEAH!


[edit on 11/5/2004 by Majic]

Originally posted by Kidfinger
It seems to me that people as a whole thrive on fear. I see examples of fear being introduced to society every day.

Kidfinger, if this is your opinion you may find this thread interesting:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Jack

This has to go deeper than we are realising. My thinking on why we love war goes back to our ancestors that just started to walk upright. You had to be a killer to survive , and it was like that for tens of thousands of years. I think our love for war might stem from humans haveing to evolve with this trait in order to survive. Is this where we are now? Have we come full circle in our mental evolution and completly reverted to a race of killers to survive?

Originally posted by Kidfinger
I think our love for war might stem from humans haveing to evolve with this trait in order to survive. Is this where we are now? Have we come full circle in our mental evolution and completly reverted to a race of killers to survive?

With that concept, many humans (countries) are far more evolved than ours, because all this country can think about is war. I guess then, America is de-evolving.

Misfit

Originally posted by Kidfinger
This has to go deeper than we are realising. My thinking on why we love war goes back to our ancestors that just started to walk upright.

Your probably right....isn't it nice that some of us has risen above the stage of dragging our knuckles on the ground....

Lady V

Its just that for every one person not dragging thier knuckels on the ground, there are four more that are. It just seems like a never ending cycle.

Misfit,

I know you wernt raggin me. Even if you were, I can take it, and were still buddies

Originally posted by JAK

Originally posted by Kidfinger
It seems to me that people as a whole thrive on fear. I see examples of fear being introduced to society every day.

Kidfinger, if this is your opinion you may find this thread interesting:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Jack

I have seen this thread on the board, but I thought it was about bad dreams I have started to read it now though. Very intresting Thanks for the heads up

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
When you have a budget of 400 billion, you need to use the surplus. What better way than war?

[edit on 5-11-2004 by SpittinCobra]

use it on the poverty stricken people in the US ( forgot which state )
im sure they would benifit alot from acouple of billion $$$
put into local projects insted of sending halfway accross the globe

[edit on 5-11-2004 by bodrul]

Originally posted by bodrul


put into local projects insted of sending half accross the globe

It always amazes me....there is never enough money for education or other important necessities...but there is always money for war or to give to other countries....

You make some good points Bodrul. But I think this goes back to people needing fear in thier lives before happyness. I dont think we would be content to just sit Idley while good things are happenning for us. Now I know that this love of fear/war does not pertain to everyone, but I know it pertains at least a little over half of the US population.

Pardon me, but I promise I am going somewhere with this.

Ive had a keen historical interest in war since I was a child, in the equipment of it (it sounds weird, but if you just look at it from the technical aspect and divorce what it is used for a moment...hard to put into words for those who dont share my interest......like people who are into HP Motorcycles or cars...they rave but I dont get it...go figure)

I grew up in a suburb of parents and grandparents who'd seen it since WW1. It left me feeling I should serve somehow and I ended up doing six years in the reserves with my name in the units unofficial "to go" list.

But I dont love it

....married a green anti nuclear anti war reclaim the night activist who studied it...too much
...studied too much of it myself,
...my grandfather died before my mother was born of the post war effects of Mustard Gas
...my father fought in Europe late in WW2 and was on his way to Japan when the bomb was dropped.
...my uncle served in the RAN in cruisers during the later stages of the Pacific War and shared unpleasant memories.....like being the only survivor of his department following a Kamakazi attack.
...my mother who lost her boyfreind in 1945 just days after the surrender.
...one godfather (my brothers) who survived 1942-45 as a PoW of Japan in Changi, but whose brother died on the Burma Thai railway.
...another Godfather (my sisters) who served in Korea.
...my godfather who did two tours in Vietnam in RAAF communications and remembered the USAF Security Police dragging a dead VC with a satchel bomb from under his mess at the airbase. The same 15 year old who did their laundry and they gave extra money to for his sick mother.
...my step mother and in laws who grew up in the Blitz and lost freinds in London and Glasgow respectively.
...the little 75 year old jewish lady whose hair my mother used to do in the 1970s. One day she freaked and started screaming in German when my mum did a chemical perm on her for the first time. Thats when she rolled up her sleeve and showed mum the stencilled number on her arm. The chemicals smell triggered the memories of the camp showers. She said you could smell the chemicals they used to clean them if you were nearby, and you didnt want to be near by. She went in with an extended family and came out alone. She was only 52....that was two years older than my mum but she looked so much older. I saw and watched her from the back room through the curtain, where neither of them could see me. Great thing to hear when your seven or eight.

Thats what shaped me and my views on the world.

I think Bush is an idiot, there were probably no WMD or viable links to AQ and 911, but I supported the WoT and the War in Iraq because I beleived the Iraqis needed Saddam gone and as hard as I looked for it, I couldnt see another way of doing it, and I wasnt expecting an opened armed welcome for the Coalition from some.

I'm not naive, I never expect a politician to do anything unless theres a profit in it for the bugger, but sometimes I hope a long term good comes out of it. In hindsight if I had realised they were going to try and secure the place on a shoe string I would have said "no" and I hate to say it but maybe Iraq needed a bastard like Saddam to hold it together. We dont seem to have much luck or heart for it.

I still believe we have to stay and fight the insurgents. I am tired of saying why I beleive it because I know those opposed to it in thier hearts thier guts and thier minds will never accept it, and I dont blame them, but thats where we part ways.

I was sickened by the awful joy and euphoria of some of the posters revelling in the renewed assault in Fallujah, as I was equally repulsed by those so bitterly and billiously opposed to it that some even wished thier own troops might get slaughtered to teach them a leason. I couldnt post at it.....I was just so soul weary by this morning (10-12 hours ago).

I get no joy, and I don't revell in it at all. But I think it is tragically and horribly necessary....again I'm giving up saying why I beleive this I just do, like some of you just believe it is wrong. I dont know if I'm right honest, but I don't know if you are either. I beleive, if somewhat relucantly, long term good must, could come out of this and other likely battles to come, and not for the dickheads in Washington and thier corporate mates. I hope the doomsayers and critics are wrong, god if I beleived in one, I'd pray they are, I hope they are.

I think whats happening is that decades of restraint and frustration and chaos has just been welling up in some people individually and collectively and its as if 9/11 has just acted as a release valve and excuse to let it all out in a frenzy. Even the anti Bush anti war anti system live and let live groups seem intent on bloodying themselves in it. Its not just in the USA, its around the world.

Makes me wish we didnt invent the bomb.....a few more "good" world wars we might not be coming to this.

I live in hope that there will be a (relative) end to this and some sort of sanity will re-establish itself before I cash in my chips.

For now, I'm going to try and lay off these heavy threads and go back to the threads where I can indulge in my inner geek

All that I'm hoping is Good luck everyone.

Originally posted by bodrul



use it on the poverty stricken people in the US ( forgot which state )
im sure they would benifit alot from acouple of billion $$$
put into local projects insted of sending halfway accross the globe

Your right, that is just the budget for the DoD.