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"Outside" as in from outside this forum but not as in an objective or dispassionate view.
Here's input from an outside source on this thread's topic:
There is no place in the Bible where you can find the word, Second, followed by the word, Coming. It's not there, sorry, and there is only so much speculation and theorizing. One of those theories was created back in 1800 by a petite nobel (son of a British Naval Admiral, and so his middle name, Nelson, who was his godfather) John Nelson Darby, who hooked up with a rich Baroness who financed his 'sabbatical' to lock himself up in a room for ten years in order to figure out how to come up with a way to turn Christianity on its head. Apparently, the powers looked favorably on his product, and bankrolled his promotion of his theory by staging 'retreats' to posh resorts in Niagara Falls, as 'conferences' for the clergy to listen to his presentations. I have to imagine that the only people who stood to gain from all of this was the Zionists, who had a long range plan to capture Palestine and to drive out the legitimate residents in order to establish a Jewish Utopia.
No second coming in the bible ?
Seeing how a "Second Coming" did not happen as predicted "before this generation passes", then we need to look at the clues to see what was meant. Right before the section that you cited, it says that where the corpse lies, there will be eagles. That would signify how this comes about, through the agency of the Romans, over the dead bodies of the people of Jerusalem.
Matthew 24 verses 29 thru 31 tells of the second coming .
Everything there can be explained by events described in the Gospels as already having happened.
Daniel chapter 12 tells of a second coming .
It does not describe Jesus.
Other scripture tells of Jesus coming to the Mount of Olives and touching his foot down and the mountain divides .
There is nothing in there about Jesus, and it is a dream or something of Ezekiel, where he was in Babylon during the "exile", envisioning a hypothetical war like the one that devastated Judea, but is like a do-over where in this case, Judea wins. So it is more about how things might happen in a situation where the old religion is reinstituted in Jerusalem but this time the people follow all the rules created by the priesthood in order to maintain favor with the cult god of that temple.
Ezekiel 39 tells of the Lord coming to save Israel .
We exist in the reign of Christ right now, which is something that I find particularly a grievous offense with Dispensationalism, which is the denying of the messiahship of Jesus, and his current status of Lord.
The Thousand Year reign is here on earth with Jesus .
Originally posted by Lazarus Short
Anyone who does not pick and choose Torah verses only supportive of Divine Right, knows that the Abrahamic covenant's title to the land was lost by Divine Decision, based on the massive personal and national sins of both Israel and Judah. God considered Israel and Judah His wives, but divorced them and sent them packing, as is usually done in divorces. This divorcement has not yet been rescinded, and is still in force. Therefore, Palestine belongs to the Palestinians.edit on 7-5-2013 by Lazarus Short because: lah-de-dah
The modern entity calling itself Israel has always been "Jewish".
Why do people still talk as if Israel is negotiable? Its now a Jewish state. You are all living in the past when you are debating whom it should belong to
I would disqualify:
The issue is complex: but the term PAROUSIA (‘coming’, ‘advent’ ‘arrival’) does in fact occur in several New Testament writings see Matthew 24:3, 27, 37, 39; 1 Corinthians 15:23; 1 Thessalonians 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, 8, 9; James 5:7, 8; 2 Peter 1:16; 3:4, 12; 1 John 2:28.along with other related words epiphaneia, or Appearance/Manifestation (2 Thes. 2:8; 1 Tim. 6:14; 2 Tim. 4:1; Titus 2:13)
Since you seem to have an interest in the Greek text, you should look at the Greek version of this quote.
. . he was taken up into heaven and a cloud received him out of their sight.
And while they looked steadfastly as he was lifted up, behold, two men stood by them in white tunics saying, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same ho Iesous who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come back in like manner..."
The Baptist called him that, in one of the Gospels. I doesn't go into detail as to what that means exactly. It could mean that he had a gentle disposition, rather that being on the violent side. That goes with his riding a donkey into Jerusalem, which is not how a warrior would go into battle.
Jesus Christ came as the Lamb once I think we can say with out debate .
That's a theory. This is what I was saying before, that it does not go into detail like what you are saying, that is someone taking pieces like a puzzle and putting them together.
He ascended to the Father until he returns in the clouds and then to rule during the 1000 year reign .
And . . ?
The Lord Jesus is referred to as the Branch , the Vine , the Lamb , the Messiah .
Christ will return to save Israel
So that is how you get around what Jesus actually said. Coming like a thief in the night is explained by Jesus that it means that you don't know when he is coming. "Quickly" in Rev. 22:12, means "within a short time, soon", according to Danker's Lexicon.
and he also stated he would come as a thief in the night with the caveat that he would come and be seen by everybody . The thief in the night and I come quickly means surprised .
"Appear" has nothing to do with going anywhere, at least directly. The Greek word means to be seen. The writer of Hebrews is using as a metaphor, the events described in the Old Testament regarding Yom Kippur. The High Priest goes in, and people expectantly await to see if he comes out from the Most Holy Place alive, which would mean that he was accepted by The Lord.
Hebrews chapter 9 , 28th verse " so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many ; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the SECOND time without sin unto salvation .
Which is a later writing, most likely a forgery.
2nd Peter chapter 3 verse 3 Knowing this first ,that there shall come in the last days scoffers ; walking after their own lust,
verse 4 And saying,Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep , all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation .
Words mean things. Let me know if you have any words from the Bible to back up your theory.
You can debate words but the fact is that the bible tells us that Jesus is coming back in the Later days . We are in the later days now .
I'm not arbitrarily picking and choosing based on what I agree with, but the opinion of biblical scholars who specialize in the field of study to see where books of the Bible come from.
I can not understand your logic . Actually I can ! If a book in the Bible does not support your theory , that book is disqualified . I guess you might find the Old Testament valid and the New Testament invalid . Do you subscribe to the Talmud also?
I don't see what your point is unless it is to discredit me since you have no argument.
Lets get to the point .
Of course, you don't mean when Judas was alive. On the other hand, John was alive when the entire New Testament was completed. You seem to be saying that portions of the New Testament which were written after a certain date are inauthentic. Roughly, what is that date?
What I believe is what the authentic parts of the New Testament says, meaning what was at least written while the Apostles were still alive.