Do Words Hurt?

Originally posted by BDBinc
reply to post by Wang Tang

 

If you are a human being you should've been able to both feel others and your own emotional suffering and empathize but you are a psychopath.
We can't help you understand what you cannot feel, cognize and empathize . If you were not a psychopath you would be able to understand how one feels and how you can harm others.

I feel empathy, in fact I am one of the more empathetic people that I know. I feel the same, and possibly more feelings and emotions that everyone else feels. And through my wide range of emotional experiences, combined with logical reasoning, I can confidently say there is no such thing as emotional pain, it is a made up concept.

reply to post by akushla99

In as much as we are not privvy to 'your experiences'...it is quite apparent that you do subscribe to the 'superstition of words', and thier effects...if not, your replies to anyone having any...mmm...contrary view to your own, would have been devoid of any inkling that they could, or might have been 'insults'...so, at least, you have this as part answer to your question - 'superstition' or not...

This I can agree with and cannot deny. Although I enjoy arguing (you must admit, it's kind of fun), I do get offended when people resort to attacking me as a person.

Usually, I would say I had scorn for the insulting words. I would "blame" those words as if they somehow affected me, like everyone here seems to be doing. But that simply isn't the case is it? They didn't cause any harm. It is the thought (my thoughts) of being disagreed with, the thought (my thoughts) of someone viewing me a certain way, the thought (my thoughts) of being insulted as a person, and the thought of having to deal with fallacious arguments. I'm reacting to perceived threats even though no threat is present. So I blame the words.

If you and a child were to insult me in the exact same manner with the exact same words, I would be more offended by yours, because I would respect your judgement over the judgement of a child. Because I respect your judgement, I would have to consider there may be truth to your insults, and my vanity would begin to question itself. Nonetheless, the words, the ill intent of the child simply wouldn't have the same effect despite the exact same words and intent are present. If it is true that words hurt, it would be true that the child's words hurt as well. Would you agree with this?

I'm not saying the receiver is to "blame" at all, as most seem to assume I'm saying. I'm saying that the receiver has the power to overcome the insult.

reply to post by ottobot


I have gone through these articles and there is no mention of such a thing as emotional pain. They have established a relationship between physical pain and mental illnesses like depression, but never mention emotional pain.

Is it possible that what you are referring to as emotional pain is actually just physical pain caused by emotional events, while physical pain is anything that is directly caused by a physical event?

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


This I can agree with and cannot deny. Although I enjoy arguing (you must admit, it's kind of fun), I do get offended when people resort to attacking me as a person. Usually, I would say I had scorn for the insulting words. I would "blame" those words as if they somehow affected me, like everyone here seems to be doing. But that simply isn't the case is it? They didn't cause any harm. It is the thought (my thoughts) of being disagreed with, the thought (my thoughts) of someone viewing me a certain way, the thought (my thoughts) of being insulted as a person, and the thought of having to deal with fallacious arguments. I'm reacting to perceived threats even though no threat is present. So I blame the words. If you and a child were to insult me in the exact same manner with the exact same words, I would be more offended by yours, because I would respect your judgement over the judgement of a child. Because I respect your judgement, I would have to consider there may be truth to your insults, and my vanity would begin to question itself. Nonetheless, the words, the ill intent of the child simply wouldn't have the same effect despite the exact same words and intent are present. If it is true that words hurt, it would be true that the child's words hurt as well. Would you agree with this? I'm not saying the receiver is to "blame" at all, as most seem to assume I'm saying. I'm saying that the receiver has the power to overcome the insult.

There are some keen blades on this site, LesMisanthropes...I count you as one of them (I don't have to agree with you, of course)...and I am not averse to playing the role of devils advocate (sometimes against my nature)...

The words, of course, are not physical objects...in and of themselves, they have no quality capable of inflicting physical harm...but, as you have pointed out, thier context (situationally) can elicit responses as much in the giver as the reciever.

On this webby thingy we really can't assume anything - least if all because some 'cues' are missing...words cannot describe feelings (or for that matter, the experience of the color red) and the only 'real' way to meet them is experientially...and that experience is on the whole a subjective one...but not exclusively comparable to other experiences of a similar nature...

Å99

I will use the quote from some movie...

"Words are, in my not so humble opinion, our most inexhaustible source of magic, capable of both inflicting injury and remedying it."

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


Why do you think you are just words on a screen? Do you think I think you are not there thinking the thoughts and expressing them to us in words? I kept trying to tell you words are creative and when you use them to harm or insult others its not OK. The words said to me by you came to birth in your thoughts( in your mind) you cannot keep twisting what I am saying and ignoring your connection with your voice.
On 11-5-2013 @ 11:09 PM you said to me ." I am words on a screen."
That thought expressed to us that you think your voice is disconnected from you, just words on a screen. If you keep telling us more about your thoughts then we will know more about the way you think as you are creating with your words.

I have been saying the very opposite of what you said, but to you words cannot harm they are not cognized by the speaker, devoid of meaning for the speaker & out of consciousness for the speaker of the words. If the hearer is wounded by harsh and insulting words you think its their fault not the speaker.
They are your thoughts, transmitted into words, and you are responsible for them and they can wound others( others that are thinking feeling human beings) .

reply to post by Wang Tang


Sorrow is the mental suffering that we were referring to that you said doesn't exist.
When you were asked if your mother dying would cause you pain you told us first about a dog you don't have and then that her death will not cause you any pain.
As I said you are not even capable of feeling or understanding what we are discussing, psychopaths coincidentally when confronted also say exactly what you say to fit in. Psychopaths tell people that they are more feeling and more emotional than others, when the death of their own mother doesn't cause them any pain.

Originally posted by BDBinc
reply to post by Wang Tang

 

As I said you are not even capable of feeling or understanding what we are discussing, psychopaths coincidentally when confronted also say exactly what you say to fit in. Psychopaths tell people that they are more feeling and more emotional than others, when the death of their own mother doesn't cause them any pain.

I'm not denying that I'm a psychopath. Does being a psychopath make my opinion any less valid? I'm still a human, and you should still treat me the same as you treat all other humans because you have these feelings and emotions that allow you to feel these things called compassion and empathy.

reply to post by Wang Tang


Don’t play your psychopathic mind games, you have certainly not been excluded.
I hold your emotional pathology and disclosures to be valuable to the thread as it can gives the readers insight into those that want to harm others with their words.
That there are people who believe they can harm others and then blame the person they harm by denying what they are doing is harmful.
Did I say I didn’t read your thoughts because you are a psychopath. I am talking to you, or disagreeing with you, exactly the same as the OP or with any human being that feels that the speaker of insults is not to be seen as responsible for the harm his/her voice/words/insults do to others( the hearer of insults).
Just like others I read your posts, and with concern for you and the harmful thoughts I tried to correct the wrong thinking that you have about feeling human beings and about words/voice/speech.
Does being deaf make your input on the subject of the sound of speech valid?

Let me make some things clear. I don't believe my words directly inflict pain because I do not believe that emotional pain exists. The meaning of words certainly does not inflict physical pain, the only way words can inflict physical pain is if they are spoken so loudly, perhaps through a very powerful megaphone, that causes the sound waves to cause physical pain to your eardrums. But the volume of words is not what we are talking about, I get the feeling it's the meaning of words we are talking about.

Many of you have claimed that I am unempathetic, unreasonable, incapable of emotions, psychopathic, etc. because of what I have said. That is ok you can think of me however you want, but what you think of me is irrelevant to this argument. Attacking who I am instead of my argument is a common logical fallacy also known as ad hominem, and it does not allow our conversation to progress in any meaningful direction. So far the only person who has engaged my argument in any meaningful fashion is ottobot.

If you want to engage my argument, please explain to me what emotional pain is. Give me a definition of what emotional pain is, and how it is different from physical pain. Be very careful when defining emotional pain, you cannot define the concept of "emotional pain" using words such as "emotion" or "pain," because then you are defining a word with the word itself and that is pointless. If you find you can't describe what emotional pain is, then explain to me how the meaning of words can directly cause physical pain, because I don't believe they can.

If you have nothing to say about my argument and instead attack who I am, I recommend you keep to yourself, as I have become tired of arguing about things that have nothing to do with my actual argument.

reply to post by Wang Tang


I know with certainty that words can inflict pain, I have experienced it and have seen other people experience it. And we know now that because you can't feel it you say other people cannot.
And yes the meaning of words also is part of what we were talking about as words in consciousness, words are not devoid of their meaning or divorced from the thoughts of the speaker.

Your boringly old school psychopathic claims of a personal attack ( was the attack done by your own words and your admissions that were quoted back ), surely not a personal attack as you already said words cannot attack (or harm).

I have already explained to you what mental suffering/emotional pain is. You already disclosed to us that you can't feel the pain, we know that.
But as you pointed out you are incapable of feeling what we are talking about and so you think others cannot feel emotional/mental pain either.

You had no actual argument , you said you cannot feel emotional pain and I do not care if you continue your posts or not. I didn't and won't argue that you are a psychopath.

I have a sincere question. Since the issue of "emotional pain" seems to be the crux of the currently ongoing discussion in this topic, would it be more mutually agreeable to the various participants to use a different semantic terminology? e.g. instead of "emotional pain," something like:

Neurologically mediated discomfort of varying degrees in witting or unwitting response to information associated with or received via a form of communication, including but not necessarily restricted to words.

I ask this because after my last post I've been observing the topic and, unfortunately, what I feel could have been a great exchange of ideas and discussion has devolved into what may be a predominantly semantic argument (one which seems to be becoming increasingly unproductive.)

Peace.

Originally posted by AceWombat04
would it be more mutually agreeable to the various participants to use a different semantic terminology? e.g. instead of "emotional pain," something like:

Neurologically mediated discomfort of varying degrees in witting or unwitting response to information associated with or received via a form of communication, including but not necessarily restricted to words.

Thank you sir, this is in fact what I am looking for. I am also looking for a definition of pain that we can all agree on.

"Neurologically mediated discomfort of varying degrees"

Unfortunately I don't think I understand what exactly this means, but I'll try my best. Neurological means it is a brain process. Mediate means to settle or to oversee, so pain is "a brain process overseeing discomfort."

Ok well actually I can probably work with this. Now how would you describe physical pain?

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


Yes, it is not the word that inflicts the pain, but it is the one listening and attaching to the words being said that suffers.

Here is the catch, most people don't know what they are, so they are stuck believing in one thing or another about themselves, and when one is asleep like this, they tend to attach to the words being said.

This is where responsibility falls on the person saying the words. Words are ideas being put into reality by the use of utterances. Words can be dangerous, to the masses that are asleep. This is how people are swayed, controlled, manipulated.

So the ultimate responsibility is on the self hearing the words. However, in this reality, most people don't know themselves so they are not responsible for themselves... a sad truth. So the next responsible party is the one saying the words. If he is also blind, then it is the blind leading the blind. However, if he is awake, then he bears the responsibility of both parties.

reply to post by Wang Tang


It is an interesting exercise trying to define emotional pain.

For me, emotional pain is the discomfort of a forced or self-imposed separation from a person, thing, or situation to which I am attached. It is a personal resistance to unwelcome change, and this resistance registers as an unpleasant sensation, usually in the solar plexus region.

reply to post by Wang Tang


I would describe physical pain similarly but with the distinction of localization.

Neurologically mediated discomfort of varying degrees, caused by either external injury to the body, internal disease process, or internal damage to the nervous system (e.g. neuralgia,) and experienced subjectively by the individual in the localized area of the damage or along the pathways of the nerves associated with the area of injury or inflammation.

Peace.

Do words hurt?
Yes.
It's too bad that you can't ask all the bullied children who committed suicide for a definition.
I'm sure they would have been able to answer your question with heart-breaking sincerity.
jacygirl

reply to post by Wang Tang


The Depression is the emotional pain. Depression (extreme sadness) is the most widely recognized form of emotional pain, also known as psychological pain. Just because the words "emotional pain" were not used does not mean the essence of the subject has been overlooked.

I don't usually use Wikipedia as a source, but this page just happens to explain psychological (emotional) pain in a relate-able manner:

Psychological Pain (Wikipedia)

"Neurologically mediated discomfort of varying degrees..." is a fairly accurate definition, as this experience is subjective and unique to each individual.

Is it possible that what you are referring to as emotional pain is actually just physical pain caused by emotional events, while physical pain is anything that is directly caused by a physical event?

In some instances, yes, but that would only apply when one is feeling physical pain related to emotional events. This is not the case for everyone.

The "suffering" of emotional pain is not physical, it is mental. And yet, though there is no "physical proof" of the emotional event, the brain's processing of this emotional event looks incredibly similar to the brain's processing of physical pain.

There are many words (in many languages) to describe this suffering, including: sadness, melancholy, anguish, angst, grief, mourning, and depression. These feelings are not limited to any one group of people - this is part of the human experience.

In this respect, there is another way to define emotional/psychological pain - existential sorrow. That, essentially, sums up the normal emotional events of a human life. It is the neurological response to this existential sorrow that causes emotional/psychological suffering.

Brief explanation: What Are Different Kinds of Emotional Pain

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


Bad words cause psychological pain which hurts in no different a way than physical pain. The same parts of the brain that are involved in psychological pain are the same parts of the brain that address physical pain.

A person being called a bad word can react in no different a way than a person who I punched in the face.

This is because in the brain in designed to process the information as if the two mentioned examples are the same thing.

If you were to tell me that you able to control such feelings in the case where someone were someone decides to insult you, a rational conclusion is that you are suppressing the natural effects generated by your
brain to such a situation.

Fundamentally, words do hurt and that is supported though clinical research.

To be clear in my prior response I was referring to psychological abuse that was obvious an bad words are abusive psychologically and so cause pain.

Any thoughts?

reply to post by Kashai

Bad words cause psychological pain which hurts in no different a way than physical pain. The same parts of the brain that are involved in psychological pain are the same parts of the brain that address physical pain.

You keep asserting this, and I know that you believe this, but is it really the case?

I will assert the opposite. Words do not cause psychological pain. Our understanding does.

One must first know what the words mean before they can be understood. Even the worst word ever conceived spoken in a language that is not understood is harmless, completely empty. It is only when we know the word, understand its implications, fear it or laugh at it, and relate ourselves with it, does it have any power. We give it power or not. It is completely in our domain. Whoever, or whatever, reigns over this domain creates the pain.

Yes. Punching someone in the face hurts 100% of the time. Therefore, fists have the potential to hurt. But blaming words, which apparently don't hurt everyone, only seems to work some of the time. So why can words hurt only some of the time? Because it's not the words that are causing pain.