Do Words Hurt?

Originally posted by Wang Tang
reply to post by ottobot

 

We seem to be on opposing sides of this argument because of our contrasting experiences with mentally ill folks...But despite these negative experiences I realize that I am in the minority with these kinds of experiences, and most people have neutral or positive experiences with mentally ill folks.

I am sorry to hear of your negative experiences, I understand how disturbing that must be for you.

Believe me, I have also had many negative experiences with mental illness (when I mention abuses as a child/youth, these were all at the hands of those who would certainly be described as mentally ill), but I tend to treat each person as my experiences have taught me to treat each person: uniquely.

You see, I have also been on the receiving end of much anger, hate, segregation, shunning, etc at the hands of cognitively "normal" people who have been taught to express their fear as insult toward certain groups of people (and I just happen to fit into like 10 of the groups of "most hated" types of people ). If I were to consider every person I met as a rude bully based on my experiences of "people like them", I'd just be feeding into prejudice. And, it really is no fun being stereotyped and condescended to every day of one's life based solely on physical appearance or IQ or whatever. I don't like the idea of doing that to anyone else, so I make a conscious effort to examine my prejudices and understand that they come from within myself, are an effort at self-defense, and do not apply to everyone I meet.

Now what you call an atrocity regarding the treatment of mentally ill folks, I call the norm. The segregation and "shunning" of the mentally ill happens naturally. Normal people do not have to put forth an effort to segregate and shun them, these folks do this to themselves naturally. I believe if mentally ill folks naturally segregate themselves and shun themselves away, we have no obligation to force them to integrate like a normal person would, because this forced integration has the potential to explode into serious problems.

I see what you're saying. I'd ask, though, is it not these "fringe" characters who end up going on murder sprees? In interviews, we always see the neighbors going on about "how normal s/he appeared" or how the murderer "was just a regular guy/gal who kept to him/herself". I submit that it is this segregation, whether intentional or not, that allows these events to occur - nobody else sees what is going on, nobody else but the murderer understands that a potentially volatile situation is on the horizon.

This is why I tragedies anger me - I feel that these events (obviously not ALL, but most) are preventable if we as a community take the time to know one another and to learn to recognize when someone is becoming unstable. I feel like if someone had been there to say, "You stopped taking your meds because you felt better? You felt better only because you were taking the medication, remember? Please think about this, please talk to your doctor about this." That events would surely have been different. I guess it upsets me that I feel like people only want to take action after something has gone wrong.

In my view, there are three levels of people. Cognitively healthy folks, folks that have normal minds but have a temporary mentally illness, and folks that have a permanant mental disability. I tend to label people with mental illness and mental disability, along with many cognitively healthy folks as weak minded fools. It's just something I do because I am excessively vain and condescending. I call people weak minded fools when they unneccesarily take offense to something I say, or are overly sensitive and easily hurt by the words of other people.

I hope this clarifies some things, I probably did not hit on all of your points, and as I said before you had a lot of good points so I apologize if I left some out.

Yes, that clears up the conversation quite a bit for me - thank you for taking the time to explain and respond to my posts, Wang Tang. I agree there are different levels of mental health, and it is definitely not easy to separate people based on potential diseases of the mind.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by akushla99

 

Yes, obvious garbage dressed as intellectual claptrap...the kernel of the OP question was a very simple one...instead, it got dressed in clothing fit for an emporer...and the little game is continued in your comment...

You proved no point except that you enjoy arguing over garbage. Do you stop and play with every piece of manure you see?

What you are suggesting is that the process of vilification (which is on the whole never initiated by the reciever) somehow can be lashed to the reciever in some 'about-face' process, where the reciever then becomes the perp...

What causes pain? A fascile and puerile argument (at the same time, interesting in its expose of the little childish games people can play with themselves, while implicating others)...

Do words cause physical pain? Perhaps not as a direct result of the words themselves...mood and atmosphere are created by words...set the scene, in a process initiated by a perp...

I am suggesting that we are so superstitious of words, that we have to resort to contradictions such as yours in order to posit them as causes of pain, for the mere purpose of supporting that superstition. I have not blamed anything but that superstition. Also I am not implicating others, I am implicating myself. I am referring to my experiences, not yours or anyone else's.

If proving your point by trying to insult me is your great effort, it failed miserably, but it gives us a fine example of someone superstitious enough to give supernatural powers to words in the hopes it would injure my vanity. Your words...how you use them...your fear of punctuation...your contradictions...say more about you than they do about me.

Insulting you?!...if you really believe 'I' was doing that?

Do words hurt?

Omfg...I just spat coffee all over my keyboard..my fear of punctuation, my contradictions...they say more about me than you...man, that horse you're on must be quite high...punctuation, contradictions...ohhhh pleeeeeeez

Å99

reply to post by BDBinc


I can't experience emotional pain because it doesn't exist. Emotional pain is like mental suffering, it is an expression people use to convey a certain meaning, but as a scientific entity emotional pain does not exist. You, my friend, are the psychopath, because you claim to be feeling things that don't actually exist. I am sorry that you are cognitively closed to the reality that emotional pain does not exist, perhaps if you are put in a mental asylum you may finally understand.

Originally posted by Wang Tang

Logical reasoning devoid of any empathic sensibility...

Å99

Logic is in fact meant to be devoid of feelings and emotions.

edit on 12-5-2013 by Wang Tang because: above top secret

...to describe the effect they have on human-with-emotions...logic is appropriate - exclusively?

Å99

reply to post by akushla99


I'm not exactly sure what you just said, but I'll clarify my point anyways.

If A, then B. If B, then C. Conclusion: If A, then C.

There is no emotion that goes into this logical reasoning. If you are trying to construct a logical argument, an appeal to emotion is actually a logical fallacy, in other words, illogical.

Originally posted by Wang Tang
reply to post by akushla99

 

I'm not exactly sure what you just said, but I'll clarify my point anyways.

If A, then B. If B, then C. Conclusion: If A, then C.

There is no emotion that goes into this logical reasoning. If you are trying to construct a logical argument, an appeal to emotion is actually a logical fallacy, in other words, illogical.

Your 'point' is moot and transparent...there was no appeal...it was a question, borg...whose 'rules' are you assuming I should play to?

Å99

reply to post by Wang Tang


Pain is entirely subjective.

Physiological pain is entirely subjective - if you tell me your leg hurts, I can look at an x-ray that says your leg is broken and infer you are likely feeling pain, but I cannot feel the pain myself.

Psychological pain is entirely subjective - if you tell me your heart is broken, I can look at your behaviors and experiences and an MRI of your brain pattern and infer you are likely feeling what looks scientifically like pain, but I cannot feel the pain myself.

Both types of pain are measurable using normal diagnostic procedures.

Both types of pain can only be experienced by the subject.

I agree with you, it seems like an unlikely phenomena that psychological sadness can cause physiological pain. But, it is actually very common - the sympathetic and autonomic nervous systems control our bodies, and our brains control these nervous systems. If the "c-fibers" (as you say) vibrate and alert the brain as a response to stimuli, pain is felt by the subject. The stimuli does not necessarily have to be one you, personally, identify as a threat.

Information about the physiological/psychological pain link:
- Is There a Link Between Pain and Depression? (Mayo Clinic)
- Depression and Chronic Pain (Nat'l Institute of Mental Health)
- Depression and Pain (Harvard Medical School)
- Columbia University "Ask the Experts": Severe Depression and Tremendous Pain

It may be difficult to understand the function of other people's bodies when one can only experience his/her own body, but this does not mean that there is no room for understanding. This is a real phenomena - it happens to many people, every single day and has been the subject of much scientific discussion. Scientists do not know "the cause", because so much of the brain/mind/body/soul(?) connection is unknown and unquantified. We are unknown to ourselves, and this is where the phenomena lies.

Originally posted by Wang Tang
reply to post by BDBinc

 

I can't experience emotional pain because it doesn't exist.

Emotional pain is like mental suffering, it is an expression people use to convey a certain meaning, but as a scientific entity emotional pain does not exist. You, my friend, are the psychopath, because you claim to be feeling things that don't actually exist. I am sorry that you are cognitively closed to the reality that emotional pain does not exist, perhaps if you are put in a mental asylum you may finally understand.

No, you are smarter than that, you realize emotional pain gives over the power to that inflicting it. You Are Not Out Of the Woods, just HIDING momentarily NO ESCAPE for the fear driven, as YOU DRIVE IT by whether you like it or not acknowledge it. You must see, recognition will kill you everytime (all apparent) nice try at deflection though.

DP

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


"I am suggesting that we are so superstitious of words, that we have to resort to contradictions such as yours in order to posit them as causes of pain, for the mere purpose of supporting that superstition. I have not blamed anything but that superstition. Also I am not implicating others, I am implicating myself. I am referring to my experiences, not yours or anyone else's."

In as much as we are not privvy to 'your experiences'...it is quite apparent that you do subscribe to the 'superstition of words', and thier effects...if not, your replies to anyone having any...mmm...contrary view to your own, would have been devoid of any inkling that they could, or might have been 'insults'...so, at least, you have this as part answer to your question - 'superstition' or not...

Å99

Originally posted by Wang Tang
reply to post by BDBinc

 

I can't experience emotional pain because it doesn't exist.

Emotional pain is like mental suffering, it is an expression people use to convey a certain meaning, but as a scientific entity emotional pain does not exist. You, my friend, are the psychopath, because you claim to be feeling things that don't actually exist. I am sorry that you are cognitively closed to the reality that emotional pain does not exist, perhaps if you are put in a mental asylum you may finally understand.

When your mother dies or your dog dies, will you feel nothing?

reply to post by Wang Tang


If you are a human being you should've been able to both feel others and your own emotional suffering and empathize but you are a psychopath.
We can't help you understand what you cannot feel, cognize and empathize . If you were not a psychopath you would be able to understand how one feels and how you can harm others.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

So do I think its in psychopathic persons makeup that makes him/her think unkind and insulting words do not harm others.
Yes.
.

Do words hurt?





Reality: Patrick Stewart is a real person. He exists.
Science Fiction Captain Jean-Luc Picard is a character in Star Trek The Next Generation tv series, and in Star Trek movies.

Sir Patrick Hewes Stewart, OBE (born 13 July 1940) is an English film, television and stage actor, who has had a distinguished career in theatre and television for around half a century. He is most widely known for his television and film roles, such as Captain Jean-Luc Picard in Star Trek: The Next Generation and its successor films..
Wikipedia's Patrick Stewart Article

__________________________________________________________

Reality: Christopher D'Olier Reeve is a real person. He existed.
Science Fiction Superman is Science Fiction, who Christopher Reeve played in the movies.

Christopher D'Olier Reeve[1] (September 25, 1952 – October 10, 2004) was an American actor, film director, producer, screenwriter, author and activist. He achieved stardom for his acting achievements, including his notable motion picture portrayal of the fictional superhero Superman.
Wikipedia's Christopher Reeve Article

Christopher D'Olier Reeve - Reporter Hide Hero, Clevis (Anagram gif)

An anagram is a word, name, or phrase that contains the same exact letters as another word, name, or phrase.


REALITY: Rodman Edward "Rod" Serling was a real person. He existed.
SCIENCE FICTION: The show Rod Serling created was a science fiction show called The Twilight Zone.

Rodman Edward "Rod" Serling (December 25, 1924 – June 28, 1975) was an American screenwriter, novelist, television producer, and narrator best known for his live television dramas of the 1950s and his science fiction anthology TV series, The Twilight Zone.
Wikipedia's Rod Serling Article

The Twilight Zone is an American television anthology series created by Rod Serling. Each episode (156 in the original series) is a mixture of self-contained drama, psychological thriller, fantasy, science fiction, suspense, or horror, often concluding with a macabre or unexpected twist. A popular and critical success, it introduced many Americans to serious science fiction and abstract ideas through television and also through a wide variety of Twilight Zone literature.
Wikipedia's The Twilight Zone Article

"In the beginning there was the word. And, the word was with GOD. And, the word was GOD." -John 1:1


Do words hurt?

That may be a very complicated question.

Originally posted by BDBinc
So do I think its in psychopathic persons makeup that makes him/her think unkind and insulting words do not harm others.
Yes.
.

edit on 12-5-2013 by BDBinc because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-5-2013 by BDBinc because: (no reason given)

Far be it for me to
a) cast aspersions on any characters
b) suggest anyone fits this definition

But...

"People with antisocial personality disorder typically have no regard for right and wrong and often disregard the rights, wishes and feelings of others"

...and I am no apologist for psychology or psychiatry...but there are shoes that fit, and feet you see that could be wearing them...

Å99

reply to post by ILikeStars


This is quite an interesting take on the subject.

Now, of course, I am going to see what interesting phrases I can make with my names.

reply to post by ottobot


There are a lot to words. They are a reflection of the collective subconscious spanning generations of users.

I think English is a lot more than just left to right. They were nude in the garden of edun. Man was created to name things in that garden.

beef [mirror] feed
boots [mirror] stood


We have one lip. It's round when open. And what is one of the first things we put in our lip?
in lip
ni pil
nipple

There is a lot to words.

reply to post by BDBinc

More words, more of your nonsense again your have not answered any questions on your "conclusions" that abusive unkind words can't harm the people all we see is that you instead choose to insult and abuse.
You don't even know how anti social and dysfunctional it is to think that verbal abuse ( and the misuse of speech) is OK, especially to vulnerable human beings as you think they are weaker ?!!
Good you admit you feeling like you are drowning, we can all see clearly you can't answer them and do not understand your tread topic which is why you have avoided any of the questions.

When you just told us that you believe you are just words on a screen, are you unaware, not human, thoughtless, unconscious, dead, are you not aware of your own speech, your life, your connection to humanity and the universe, do you really think you are just disembodied (dead) words.
Some people believe they are dead( WALKING CORPSE SYNDROME) and live their lives thinking they are dead, you believe you are just words on a screen which is not that different (WALKING DEAD WORDS SYNDROME), you don't even know who you are or what you are.
Words are not separate from the speaker and thinker, they don't exist in isolation, thats just one aspect about words that you keep failing to grasp.

To you I'm words on a screen. What more do you know about me?

So far you've said I believe I'm dead, I'm nonsense, I'm abusive, dysfunctional, anti-social, that I condone verbal abuse, that I don't know who I am, that I have walking dead syndrome. How do you know this from reading a few words of mine? None of these are true. You're still making stuff up out of thin air in a vain attempt to prove what little points you have offered, or to fill whatever void remains when faced with something you don't believe in.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
When your mother dies or your dog dies, will you feel nothing?

When my dog dies I don't think I will feel anything, possibly because I don't have a dog. When my mother dies, perhaps I will feel sorrow, perhaps I will feel regret, but no I will not feel pain.