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Why the biblical religions are dangerous?

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posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by dominicus
 


i am saying i would rather use scientific method than take someones word for it...that is it...but that is not biased as you claim it is...it is about as open minded as you can get...i just refuse to be handed the information, until it can be proven...but as with anything discovered, it has to be repeatable before it can be definitely counted as true without a doubt...it has to show a clear pattern...that means people must independently repeat the experiment or research to see if they achieve the same results...since subjective things like the afterlife are not able to be easily repeated or proven, then there is no basis for them to be substantiated...we can theorize all we want, but that theory doesn't make the theory a fact...and theories can change with new information...but that new information has got to be substantiated also before it can be taken as fact...

and again, fear is no way to convince anyone that something is true, in fact the opposite becomes obvious...that fear is used to force an untrue idea on those who allow the fear to influence them...




posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by dominicus
 


Just curious as to what you believe the relationship between the "unknowing" enlightenment you describe and acts of morality.

I don't know which direction you mean to take this idea, because some settle with a belief that the "unknowing" really is a knowing that inclines one towards proper action (the Christian idea), whereas others mean the unknowing in the most antinomian sense imaginable.

The trick with talking about enlightenment, or "unknowing", is that by even saying so, you turn it into a dogma - into a fixed, finite idea of what "enlightenment" is. Enlightenment may not even be a static thing: it might be conditional and subject to the individual seeking it.

Therefore, in my opinion, it's a vanity of vanities to 'explain' to someone else what (your idea of) enlightenment is. That of course isn't to say that we can't offer advice from our own experience. That is after all what religion is about. According to the thread starter, biblical religion is worthless, unredeemable, in fact, it is "dangerous". But any level headed, non-bigoted person understands that every tradition deserves respect, including the much reviled Abrahamic religions.

In the Jewish worldview, "enlightenment" is far more simple and less abstract than it would be described in Buddhism or Shaivism. God created the world - the first premise. The world therefore contains within it the wisdom of the Creator. Judaism believes that we learn through experience, and this accumulated knowledge qualifies as "enlightenment". Not by destroying the temple, or eradicating knowledge, is enlightenment attained, but the exact opposite: embracing the time-tested wisdom of our forefathers. Which, as all humanity knows, is ideas like loving your neighbour, respecting your elders, respecting the (reasonable) laws of the state; respecting contracts; not stealing; not causing unnecessary damage, etc. These time tested, yet wantonly abused ideas, is what helped create the modern society we live in today. Yet, there are people who ignorantly revel in their destruction. The social psychologist Steven Pinker notes with wryness how the "never trust a person over 30" flower generation of the 60's helped cause a 4 fold increase in violent crimes during that decade. If that isn't solid evidence that antinomianism is paramountly non-sensical, perhaps Mao's "cultural revolution" - which sought continual social upheaval - resulting in the deaths of an estimated 60 million human beings - might seal the deal.

There is truth in both Rousseau's "noble savage" and Hobbes "Leviathan". But perhaps there is just a little more truth on the side of Hobbes then there is on the side of Rousseau.



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by studythem1
 



i am saying i would rather use scientific method than take someones word for it...that is it...but that is not biased as you claim it is...it is about as open minded as you can get...i just refuse to be handed the information, until it can be proven...but as with anything discovered, it has to be repeatable before it can be definitely counted as true without a doubt...it has to show a clear pattern...that means people must independently repeat the experiment or research to see if they achieve the same results...since subjective things like the afterlife are not able to be easily repeated or proven, then there is no basis for them to be substantiated...we can theorize all we want, but that theory doesn't make the theory a fact...and theories can change with new information...but that new information has got to be substantiated also before it can be taken as fact...

Scientific method, in itself is limited in that it has rules which require objectivity, and repeatability. And yet, many things in life that exist are neither objective or repeatable. For example you reading this reply for the very first time, is a subjective experience, and you can never again repeat this single moment.

Yet who in their right mind, would reject their own subjectivity and the present moment? So the ever lovable and long held scientific method itself is limited by its own rules.


and again, fear is no way to convince anyone that something is true, in fact the opposite becomes obvious...that fear is used to force an untrue idea on those who allow the fear to influence them...

In no way do I want to use fear as a motivating factor for anything. But the thing is, if what we do here in life, has significant repercussions to what happens to us in the afterlife, and some of those repercussions are scary, then it is what it is.


Just curious as to what you believe the relationship between the "unknowing" enlightenment you describe and acts of morality.

There exists an Absolute morality based on Love, selflessness, and helping others. It is deep within every human being, however much of it is covered up by the ego and the programming of the world.


I don't know which direction you mean to take this idea, because some settle with a belief that the "unknowing" really is a knowing that inclines one towards proper action (the Christian idea), whereas others mean the unknowing in the most antinomian sense imaginable.

The Unknowing I was referring to, is based on a process that leads to Enlightenment. A direct experience of Absolute Beingness/Consciousness all that is United as ONE, and very much alive and aware.


The trick with talking about enlightenment, or "unknowing", is that by even saying so, you turn it into a dogma - into a fixed, finite idea of what "enlightenment" is. Enlightenment may not even be a static thing: it might be conditional and subject to the individual seeking it.

Correct, what ever we say about It, is not It. However, It can be experienced and it is an experience that is prior to the mind, to emotions, to any colorations or illusions. It even reveals where thoughts come from and how the ego mind operations, guaranteeing that you are not tricking yourself with illusions and beliefs.

At the end of the day, the Enlightenment "How To" Thread in my signature explains the roadmap there, and there rest is up to you to take the plunge to see for yourself.


Therefore, in my opinion, it's a vanity of vanities to 'explain' to someone else what (your idea of) enlightenment is.

Then I'm the Vainest SOB on ATS, because I've experienced the state of No 'I' and I shout from the rooftops to everyone on how they can experience it. Because it is a direct experience, not an "Idea Of Enlightenment" like how you propose your premise above.


That of course isn't to say that we can't offer advice from our own experience. That is after all what religion is about. According to the thread starter, biblical religion is worthless, unredeemable, in fact, it is "dangerous". But any level headed, non-bigoted person understands that every tradition deserves respect, including the much reviled Abrahamic religions.

Religion as esoteric and exoteric aspects. If you dig deep into the esoteric in all of them, you will find blueprints for Enlightenment. Very simple!!!



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by Murgatroid
 



The general consensus is correct that religion is not what it appears to be, and the simple way to understand the complexity that is covering the problem, is to remove the labels of terrorism, murderer, criminal, axis of evil, and simplify the identification as to what is good, and what is evil

The Problem
The complexity of the problem makes it difficult to arrive at the basic simplicity of the problem, and how it was dealt with in the ancient past

Identified
Evil, is the problem and the consequences of evil's actions affect everyone and the world

Evil existed in the past, and laws will not make it go away, and it will be there in the future

Evil is similar to smoking, which is a bad and unnecessary habit

Evil is another bad habit that is unnecessary, and causes others pain, loss, and sometimes worse

Because of its nature and effects, Evil should be identified, banned, and controlled to protect the world and its citizens

When we understand that Evil is the underlying condition, and that labels that are used to describe what should be called evil, and labels of identification create a complexity that confuses the basic contention, when one crosses their moral compass for any reason that affects another person, they are committing an act of evil

This includes Governments, everyone

Second, If everyone knew how to see their past deeds, and a mark that represents what they have done in their past, would they want to know what can be seen?

Third, What if they learned there is an ancient solution that removes this mark, would they want to be clean?

If you would like to see a sample of this work of the research and investigation into this mark and a few others that were identified, investigated, and confirmed

click here

There you will learn a secret of what the Mark of Evil looks like, and where it can be seen, and you will see a NASA photo of the Lake of Fire

If everyone knew this secret, then they would be more aware, because what they have done in the past can be seen by everyone, and the Marks of Mankind cannot be hidden from the eyes of man, woman, and children

When everyone can see what Evil looks like, and where it hides, then this knowledge can be used to make better decisions in our lives. Politicians, Celebrities, Ministers, and Strangers characters can be measured by what can be seen, and children will know how to avoid those who are marked for their evil deeds

This knowledge will begin the return of the power that was given away without your knowledge or consent, and
When everyone can see, then they can face Evil, so it will know that they can be seen

The truth is that they need help to quit that bad habit, and help to become clean

In the ancient past, individuals that committed an evil act on the congregation of people or a community, were required to leave and not return, until they were clean

The sample provides a visual reference of the research, and those interested in being notified of the invitation to join, contribute, or participate in the public release, go to our channel on YouTube and give us a like and you will be notified when the Mysteries & Secrets goes live for public use

clik here



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 10:48 PM
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I think religion = separation and is meant to divide the masses because of course divided they are powerless however unified they can bring down this whole evil plot by these psycho men trying to rule the world.

However there is something similar in a few religions. and that is the ten rules or should i say the ten commandments.
And in the scriptures HE says many times that the ten commandments were basically for mens own happiness, basically you can take them as rules or you can take them as advice.
the first.

Basically the first three he just wants you to praise him ONLY and not some stupid carved rock. he also doesn't want you to take his name in vain which has multiple meaning 1 - dont dis him. 2- dont use stupid names like god, use his REAL NAME(he likes it when you use his name) 3- dont use his name for stupidities.

the fourth is basically that he doesn't want people overworking themselves, how many people do you see working 7 days a week, guess where they're going soon? to a coffin. plus that day is also a spiritual renewal day, not to mention certain evil popes changed sabbath to "Sun"day(but thats a whole other story)

honour thy father and mother, how many kids nowadays do you see thinking they know everything, then life crushes them?, theres a reason your father and mother are older, they've lived through alot and i can assure you they dont have evil intentions for you(well some do...sadly) learn the good from your parents not that bad.

you shall not murder, face it, if you murder you'll either go to prison or get killed, by either police or someone seeking revenge. and whatever the case its not gonna end well for you, keep in mind that HE does say that murdering = to lie in wait to shed blood, HE doesn't mean you can't defend yourself.

you shall not commit adultery, face it, HE's all knowing, why do you think theres so many sexually transmitted diseases nowadays? you think he doesn't know our biology? he created us he knew this would happen, not to mention that the cheated husband/wife might snap and kill both the cheating wife/husband plus the other dude/t

you shall not bear false witness(lie) lying is bad for you and lets say you lie agaisn't someone and he got killed or arrested for it, then it is found out you lied, you think you'll get off the hook easily? lying is bad for you, even white lies. people start hating you for it. and really you'll be unhappy for it.

you shall not covet(be jealous) jealousy only leads to being unsuccessful in your own life and ultimately in unhappiness.

So basically they are rules yes but at the same time its advice to be able to live a happy/no stress life. and basically in many cases a survival guide to life itself.

However most people just don't see this and then they wonder why they have such unhappy lives.

As for names i just go with Jah/Yah and For those who dont know Adonai and Allah are the very same word translated.

But truly this is the most important thing most people forget, we ALL have different languages, therefore our name for the Almighty has also changed for each language. He has many names and I'm sure he won't hate you for using the name you know him by as long as its one of his names, however there is one thing that people don't seem to realize and that is the fact that NONE OF US KNOW HIS TRUE NAME. Only HE Himself knows his true name. No matter what book you study when he says his name he says, "This is my name you will know me by" if you read that bit you can notice that HE doesn't really reveal his True Name.

Also someone posted about god being ga'ad . this is true, lord also = ba'al as well as jesus being zeus(so frigging plainly obvious) like pegasus or dionisus (sus is a derivation of zeus)

So really if you follow those ten rules you're pretty much solid. Both in terms of surviving this modern evil world as regarding your own lifes happiness(we Huemans break down easily with too much sadness/ stress(we need happiness to live))
Also Regarding names, if you wanna go at it safe mode, you can just call them by Creator and Messiah. Can't go wrong with that can you?

Sorry for the TL/DR long wall of text. however i do hope it clears up some misunderstanding for a few



posted on Apr, 28 2013 @ 11:43 PM
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Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by greatfriendbadfoe
 


I do hope for the Son of God to show his face. All those beings willing to bow and be saved and repent of all sin will be removed. All those facing God's wrath are evil, vial, and side with the destruction and chaos of Satan. So yes, may all of you be destroyed during the tribulation that wish only sin.

However, God has given you one of the easiest ways out ... regardless of your sins... i mean, you dont even have to do anything except HOPE and try.

God told you thousands of years ahead of time he will unleash his wrath upon all of the EVIL in the world. All those left on Earth are EVIL and have chosen their side in the war between good and evil. Deny him, and you side with Satan.

This is why you will have no argument at the throne of judgement. YOU have heard the word of God and his warnings. You will die on Earth for his wrath upon evil, and then you will die the second death for eternity and be forgotten in the lake of fire.

----

I mean he has told you thousands and thousands of years in advance what is going to happen and how to avoid it. So all of the GOOD will be removed, only evil will reside. ( Except for the remnant of Jews who are sealed. )

However, once the Tribulation occurs, you'll know what happened, and you can still repent. But you'll probably die during the tribulation for your beliefs. . God tells us many will know what has taken place, but will take the mark of the beast because of their weakness.

-----

No point in viewing the wrath of the old testament, it gets worse in our generation. A lot worse.

People need to stop looking on his wrath in all honesty, he gave you a way out of it ALL. God said you know what .. this is MY creation, i shall send my ONLY Son, innocent of all evil, to die for my creation that has become corrupted. I will suffer for my sinful creation, they will kill me, but i will show them i am Lord of death and Life and arise three days later.

Problem is, you dont want no part of God's salvation. Then the judgement that falls and the pain that tears through will be on your head alone. It is YOUR fault for the suffering you will face, sorry. Sounds personal.


Again, people forget that not ONE SINGLE person has to suffer during the tribulation if all of his creation repented. They would be saved if they just asked, and hoped on their Lord.
edit on 27-4-2013 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)


You sound exactly like someone brainwashed into worshiping a tyrant.

I Imagine a meeting with an all loving god going something like this, "we'll you guys where wrong, you failed the test, but now I'm back and I love you, so I'll teach you right" you know....loving, understanding, patient, the type of qualities we attribute to all good parents and people. No where in my definition of good does "destroy you with out mercy for failing to worship me before I came back" fit. It's something only a unenlightened mega asshole would do.

Maybe I'm crazy to expect goodness from a god, but if a parent acted like your god and killed their children for not living as expected, we'd consider them #ty parents, if our presidents acted that way we'd call them tyrants and fight them, but it startles me that you make rants like this about your god without even blinking or realizing how hard it is to accept for someone who hasn't been indoctrinated by it. I'm not motivated to worship a being whose case for worshiping him amounts to "if you don't you are #ucked, I will personally make you suffer", That's horrible. He sounds like a really #ty "person". He has the personality I'd expect from a Satan type of character.



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
reply to post by studythem1
 


Why do atheists spend so much time studying religion? Its like they need to prove something, look for logic loops, find conspiracies, prove that religions have blended from ancient ones of old etc... for what purpose I don't know, but I think they are wasting their time.



Or maybe we started off with a certain religion, had questions, looked for answers and actually read the books. After that we decided the answers we where given weren't good enough, but we still remember what we read and took issue with?



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 12:25 AM
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reply to post by dominicus
 





Correct, what ever we say about It, is not It. However, It can be experienced and it is an experience that is prior to the mind, to emotions, to any colorations or illusions.


I don't understand. By definition, by even looking into the "abyss", or the state which precedes being, emotions, thoughts and forms that you speak of, you're still doing so from a position of "I am", that is, as a being subject to definite conditions of being. What you bring from this indeterminate state may in fact differ from what someone else brings back. Hence, my argument that not everyone comes away from this experience with the idea that everything is based on "Love, selflessness, and helping others.".

There is a logical inconsistency in positing an ontological state beyond definition, and associating that state with defined conditions like love, selflessness and helping others. This is the argument of philosophers like Ananda Coomaraswamy, Julius Evola, Frederich Nietzsche (from his 'the birth of tragedy' days), Arthur Schopenhauer, and many others. If the ontological source for your epistemology lies beyond any determined state, than that state doesn't prescribe any particular moral code: there is no absolute morality, since from the perspective of the absolute, to quote William Blake: "Both read the Bible day and night, but thou read'st black where I read white"

So, I think if you want to give your morals some "teeth", you have to base it in something more than the indefinable pre-being anomie. In Judaism, for example, morality derives it's basis from man's own inherent sense of right and wrong, which is to say, from learned experience. When things are placed in the "here-now", in the world and its forms, then morality can claim some authority. Conversely, when you reference some pre-being state which transcends all form, then it is a logical impossibility to claim that this pre-state condition advises only this course of action, and no other. If the non-dual is the Absolute truth and all else is illusory, so too does evil, anger, jealousy, sexual perversion, lose it's immediate significance. This, btw, is what allows Thailand to become the world capital for child prostitution. David Carandine, and Buddhists of his ilk, don't believe in the concept of "wrong", There heads are up in the clouds, denying the facts of experience.



Then I'm the Vainest SOB on ATS, because I've experienced the state of No 'I' and I shout from the rooftops to everyone on how they can experience it. Because it is a direct experience, not an "Idea Of Enlightenment" like how you propose your premise above.


And yet it is also subjective. The state itself must be intensely meaningful, but whose to say that that is the raison d'etre of existence? It's purely arbitrary to claim that. And that's my point.

But then again, I also think my connection to a more Jewish epistemology is arbitrary: it satisfies my sense of meaning.

Human beings are different. We come in different shapes. We develop different ways of thinking. Take the east and the west. I'm of the belief that it is not accidental that the East thinks along more abstract wholistic ways, while the west prefers to see things in a linear, cause-effect way. I think that is perfectly paralleled in the symbolism of the rising sun - the great orb, source of light and life in our universe. The sun - or source - rises in the east, and settles in the west. And so too do mankind's cognitive apperceptions follow the same course. It is too meaningful for this to be mere coincidence.

I'm a libertarian. I think that the East is perfect as the east, and the west is perfect as the west. I think Judaism - as it is - Christianity, as it is, with it's Helllenistic and Jewish foundations, I think all of this is the design of some mysterious architect. I find it objectionable to insist that everyone see things from the perspective of the Eastern mystic, just as it is objectionable to enforce western ways of thinking on easterners; Humility should teach us that not all people think the same way.



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by studythem1

Originally posted by ivbnu
reply to post by studythem1
 


Hey that was a really good post. I have been mulling this over in my own mind and your explanation was just what i was looking for.
So do you discount the whole bible? Does the real creator require anything of us?
I would s&f you but I'm new here and haven't figured that out yet ( actually I'm lazy and didn't try)
Anyway I would love to hear more.


no i do not discount the whole bible...it is historical, and people & places have been proven to exist, events also, but not always when and how they are explained in the bible...the ideology of a murdering god is the thing i am most against, not the idea of a creator...psychological tyranny present in the doctrines of the Old Testement, and later expanded on by Constantine, are what i am against... they are completely contradictory to what christ taught, which was why they had to make him appear to contradict himself at times...

i do not think jesus was god incarnate, my definition of god does not coincide with that kind of nonsense, it would not even be possible to contain the vastnes of the universe in one physical human body...the last time something similar happened, (ie the singularity that became the big bang) it was so dense it exploded and created what we see around us...(this is where everything came from and where quantum physics especially resided, in theory everything existed in that moment and still exists in that dimension, thus the reason for the true possibility of heaven existing and being able to see our loved ones after they are dead...they still exist in a place without space and time...but enough on theory)

so it stands to reason the laws of nature would apply in the physical world...except for quantum physics, which is the explanation of why what we can call heaven could actually exist...but not quite as we think it is...its beyond what we can see here, but not impossible...but for jesus to have been able to merge the laws of earth physics to quantum physics, then he could either never have been human to begin with...or there is something to be said for the expansive powers of the mind that have been tapped by some people but not all...and those people are not exactly giving the secret away for people to try it out...

explain how buddhist monks can float on nothing right in front of people? no wires, no hidden posts or mirrors...could it be they have figured out how to expand the power of their minds? to tap into the quantum physical plane? to become one with air molecules? it may be possible...we just dont know for sure...

why are the same monks able to sit in the cold and stay warm like they are near a fire?

this may sound like mystical mumbo jumbo, but im talking from a different perspective...if things like this are possible when the victims of MK ultra were deprogrammed and have found out they have special superhuman abilities, then how possible would it be to learn these things without the torture?

was jesus just such a special kind of person who was born with the ability to use all his brain capacity? who knew how to tap into these special abilities, was he just a natural? could be...but if there was such a teaching, we will never know because it was all but eradicated by the jews and the church itself, in several witch hunts spanning almost from the beginnings of the church and through the inquisition...again the culprit was the establishment...afraid to lose their power...claiming enlightenment by shutting everyone else in the dark...
edit on 27-4-2013 by studythem1 because: (no reason given)
hang on kiddo, tell me, how god can be a murderer???
either you have sub 20 iq or you are a brainwashed self declared free thinker?? which is it??



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 01:00 AM
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reply to post by therationalist
 


how can free thinking be brainwashed? that idea itself, is a self defeating argument on your part...

brainwashing is the act of someone not having the ability to think for themselves, that means someone else is infringing on their free thought and free will...i see more of that (forbidding people to use critical thinking) in churches synagogues and mosques i than do anywhere else...

just follow the links to the websites i put in earlier posts...its too much to copy and paste here...

its right in the bible...self condemning evidence...

you know how they say you have the right to remain silent? well the god of the old testament (an obvious impostor) didnt give a crap about self incrimination, i guess, cause he is god (or some other such excuse), so the written evidence is there in all its glory, you just have to not ignore it...

im not saying the real god that the OT claims to be referring to is bad, what i am saying is the one they do reference, is evil and an impostor...and not only that but the psychology is evil as well...just read all of the posts i wrote instead of picking out one point that might offend you...it is not meant to offend, or slander the real creator, but expose the impostor, or the men who used god as an excuse to commit evil...
edit on 29-4-2013 by studythem1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by therationalisthang on kiddo, tell me, how god can be a murderer???
either you have sub 20 iq or you are a brainwashed self declared free thinker?? which is it??


There is a person or group of people who are alive, your god says "you have made me unhappy, now you die mercilessly by my hand or the hand of people I command" and he kills them dead. It's quiet simple actually.

Now I know you will use some loopy logic, "but it's god and he can do what ever he wants so it's not murder", but in all honesty it is murder, some of it is the most cruel murder ever written in history. Some of it's murder for things a persons father did. It's so F'n evil to say "this persons father has angered me, now everyone in the surrounding area loses their first born son for his actions". That is pure evil!

As I said in my previous post in this thread a loving god just doesn't do this stuff, he doesn't need twisted loop holes to make his murder acceptable, because he'd actual love his children. A loving god isn't sitting around making threats like "you just wait, if you don't worship me perfectly *moves finger across throat*"
edit on 29-4-2013 by mahatche because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by studythem1
 

Religion as esoteric and exoteric aspects. If you dig deep into the esoteric in all of them, you will find blueprints for Enlightenment. Very simple!!!

sorry, but I have a question
1- what do you mean by simple. is Enlightenment so simple. I mean putting egos aside may not be so simple.
in nowadays widespread buddhism propaganda (to alter the monotheistic religions) they say that you can do sins daily and then by yoga or some concentration you can become enlightened !
what do you think.



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 



I don't understand. By definition, by even looking into the "abyss", or the state which precedes being, emotions, thoughts and forms that you speak of, you're still doing so from a position of "I am", that is, as a being subject to definite conditions of being. What you bring from this indeterminate state may in fact differ from what someone else brings back. Hence, my argument that not everyone comes away from this experience with the idea that everything is based on "Love, selflessness, and helping others.".

There Universal characteristics of this experience, across the board, culture, time, etc. One of them, is that it feels like there is no longer a subject, all subjectivity melted away into a Vast living Oneness. The Experience is prior to Thought, mind, emotions, colorations, so only after returning from the experience can one describe it in retrospect, even though the description is not the same as the actual experience.

Just like winning the lotto. I think everyone would agree they would rather experience it, than merely read about it.

As far as Love, selflessness, helping others, it comes from that State as Universal Morals. All who experience the One, end up seeing the everyone is Me. Certainly you are/would be that way towards a wife, kids, parents, but when you experience that there are no labels or divisions, that everyone is your wife, parent, kid, best friend, well then that brings abut pure Empathy.

After that, it boils down to what scope can you help the masses. For me, the best thing I can do is to pass this message along, and build a retreat, off the grid, self sustainable homestead where others can come and work on Enlightenment using whatever helps along the process.


There is a logical inconsistency in positing an ontological state beyond definition, and associating that state with defined conditions like love, selflessness and helping others.

1. Because the One, Enlightenment, is beyond Logic, prior to it, transcends it.

2. All of existence is already beyond definition. Science agrees this Universe was, before we were here. In that case, there was no one around to define, and yet everything was here. The definition of a thing, is not the same as the actual thing. i.e. the definition of a winning lotto ticket vs an actual winning lotto ticket

3. Along with the Characteristics mentioned above, eventually transcendent Bliss arrives, as does Beingness.

4. The Source of Consciousness is in the heart. Upon waking in the morning, the ego emerges from the heart and takes its place in the head as a filter of reality. When falling asleep, the ego relaxes, loosens from the head, dives deep down back into the heart. The schism we find in Western culture is that it is mostly head and no heart. Find the source of thoughts/ego (Which can be done with practice) and there you will find an Absolute Beingness, Bliss, Source of Consciousness.


So, I think if you want to give your morals some "teeth", you have to base it in something more than the indefinable pre-being anomie. In Judaism, for example, morality derives it's basis from man's own inherent sense of right and wrong, which is to say, from learned experience. When things are placed in the "here-now", in the world and its forms, then morality can claim some authority.

We can't define "Good" Abstract art, and yet we have rules, markets, and shows displaying it. I think 1-4 above covers this part.


Conversely, when you reference some pre-being state which transcends all form, then it is a logical impossibility to claim that this pre-state condition advises only this course of action, and no other.

Logic confirms, that logic itself is limited. Absolute Morals are found with Intuition, Heart, Enlightenment. Logic only comes in later to confirm this in retrospect.


If the non-dual is the Absolute truth and all else is illusory, so too does evil, anger, jealousy, sexual perversion, lose it's immediate significance. This, btw, is what allows Thailand to become the world capital for child prostitution. David Carandine, and Buddhists of his ilk, don't believe in the concept of "wrong", There heads are up in the clouds, denying the facts of experience.

Those acts are wrong, and are caused because of Ego/Ignorance & the Heart/Intuition being covered up by programming of the world, and animal instinct of the body. Its part of the Human condition and life on this planet, and I agree how everything is "Here", on Earth, isn't how it should be.
Eventually through Evolution, genetic, and Spiritual, we will reach a Transcendent state where these things don't happen.
See this thread here:
Evolution, both Physical and Spiritual, is now in our hands. GMO Babies already Born



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 



And yet it is also subjective. The state itself must be intensely meaningful, but whose to say that that is the raison d'etre of existence? It's purely arbitrary to claim that. And that's my point.

Subjective? Sure, however it is repeatable. One who is "There" Can hand another a set of written blueprints, that when followed, will also lead to Enlightenment. Would you deny your own Subjectivity? Isn't all of reality experienced by each individual subjectively, as a collective?

raison d'etre of existence? Well let's look around and try to find who else is talking about WHY we are all here and human condition. We end up with Science, Religion, Philosophy no matter how you cut and how long you search, comes down to those 3.

Science is in its infancy, roughly a few hundred years old, and is not looking for God or for why we are here. Science is trying to figure out how everything works, and there is no end to that search.

Philosophy/Religion, is thousands of years old, most of agrees that there is a pre-existence and post-existence outside of a human body, that the human condition is broken, the world filled with wars, suffering, and a Bunch of other BS.

I'm digressing ......can literally write a book on "Why". All that to say that there are systems of thought that say we live in illusion, are sleepwalking, are slaves to the passions of the body/animalism:
Can We Be Free, if Reason is a Slave to the Passions?

And if you want to see if this is true for yourself through direct experience, here are some Blueprints. So I followed the blueprints, and BAM!!!!! Saw first hand that indeed we are living in movie projector like Illusion based on thoughts filtering, and that the body is not who we are, and remembering that I pre-existed prior to a body, and finding others who remember pre-existence, and Direct experience showing it all to be true. (kind of digressed there)


But then again, I also think my connection to a more Jewish epistemology is arbitrary: it satisfies my sense of meaning.

In the Grand scheme, "Jewish" doesn't mean anything. You too pre-existed as pure bodiless-genderless consciousness, took on a body here, a religion, a name that's not really your name, belief systems, etc.


Take the east and the west. I'm of the belief that it is not accidental that the East thinks along more abstract wholistic ways, while the west prefers to see things in a linear, cause-effect way.

East is strong in Heart, Enlightenment, Origins of Soul and systems of thought/belief built around that ...though those systems themselves have become a former shell of what they are intended to be.

West is strong in Head. Logic/Reason and gives us engineers, architects, infrastructure, math,

A balance between the 2 is required. Even to approach Enlightenment requires the Ego/Logic/Reason to agree that it is the most fruitful pursuit to find out about and begins to work aside you.


I think Judaism - as it is - Christianity, as it is, with it's Helllenistic and Jewish foundations, I think all of this is the design of some mysterious architect.

The Esoteric aspects of them both are that they were/are meant to be systems and blueprints for Enlightenment. Anything less then that is duality-label based club. See the pictures on page 3 of my how to Enlightenment Thread in my signature, and you'll start to find a specific pattern that is pointing exactly to my premise. The whole past 14 years of my life have been dedicated to figuring it all out, and I truly know I have, though the rest is below the surface and going down the rabbit hole as deep as possible.


I find it objectionable to insist that everyone see things from the perspective of the Eastern mystic,

"Eastern" and "mystic" are labels. If there is an Absolute Truth that can be experienced, and it is the same for everyone, then it is what it is. Finding it "Objectionable" is merely part of the programming that your mind has received since living on earth.


just as it is objectionable to enforce western ways of thinking on easterners; Humility should teach us that not all people think the same way.

I'm not dealing with the multitudes of different thought here. I'm dealing with a Truth that you yourself will find to be True, that is prior to all thought, that all thought/thinking has as its source.



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by maes2

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by studythem1
 

Religion as esoteric and exoteric aspects. If you dig deep into the esoteric in all of them, you will find blueprints for Enlightenment. Very simple!!!

sorry, but I have a question
1- what do you mean by simple. is Enlightenment so simple. I mean putting egos aside may not be so simple.
in nowadays widespread buddhism propaganda (to alter the monotheistic religions) they say that you can do sins daily and then by yoga or some concentration you can become enlightened !
what do you think.

The cause of "Sins" is equal to a few factors:

1. Ignorance(not knowing yourself, how you operate, God, Enlightenment)
2. The Ego being programmed by the world, selfish, dealing in Illusions.
3. The Body with its testosterone coloring thought, lust enslaving reason, animalistic urges pulling one towards lower useless pursuits.

Enlightenment, no matter the way there, be it through Yoga, Concentration, wisdom, Practice, the Holy Spirit, etc, will eventually turn you into a Master of Yourself. It takes time and its a work in progress to come to maturity (just like it takes time and age to mature a fine wine into an work of art)

Eventually in reference to #1. You know yourself, and know what causes you to Sin, being hyper vigilant and super aware of the Ego and its trickery, being Aware that you are Awareness (The Observer of the ego and not the Ego itself), and are experiencing the Source of Awareness.

In reference to #2. You let go of all worldly programming, all illusions, and let go of the Ego. As a result you are in Expanded consciousness, it's Source, Beingness, Bliss, Enlightenment.

In Reference to #3. Eventually you transcend the Body and its hormones, instincts, animalism and you reclaim Reason, Logic, Clear-mindedness from being drunk in Lust and lower Instincts. You take the High road.

There are various ways to all of this, multitude of blueprints, practices, systems. However this stuff is real and doable. See the link in my signature and you'll start to see how it all works.



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by CrypticSouthpaw
 



Oh, hey, look, its Bast/Sekhmet, defeating the serpent of non-existence, Apep, so that the supreme-god Rē can be reborn as the dawn-sun: Khepra! You know, since the Old Kingdom so heavily featured the worship of the triad Khepra-Rē-Atum as the Dawn, Noon, and Setting sun in constant confrontation with Apep, the serpent of the Underworld who tried to swallow Rē and end the world.

What? You thought this had something to do with the Biblical "Tree of Life" found in the Garden of Eden?

Not at all.

There is no Eden in Egyptian mythology. Their tree, the tamarix tree, is associated with Osiris and his resurrection. So, the tree in Egyptian mythology has less to do with good and evil, and more to do with reincarnation and then judgment in the afterlife (the Hall of Two-Truths). Additionally, the Tamarix tree only becomes important during the Ptolemaic dynasty at the very end of Egyptian history, when the Greeks invaded, conquered, and adapted Egyptian mythology to match Greek history.

See, this is why critical analysis of archaeological discoveries is necessary when trying to make a point. Otherwise, some bumbling idiot might come along, see a tree depicted in a piece of art, and think it must automatically be related to some other, much later, far different thing.



This is aboriginal shamanism. A completely different spiritual system than Judeo-Christian belief. The Dreamtime, the aboriginal creation period, has no God or single Creator. Instead, the Earth herself, known as the archetype of The Great Mother (pictured front-and-center above) gave birth to the land. Then, a whole host of animals, like Lizard, Bear, Coyote, etc., all came along and helped shape rivers, hills, mountains, and the like. This is all basic information which can be learned by taking a beginners course on anthropology at just about any accredited college.

What you have in this image appears to be a birthing ceremony. The great mother, as well as a male (husband, father) beside her. Then beneath her is a female (wife, mother) and beneath all of them is a tribe of elders. So, perhaps a birthing ceremony, maybe even a festival honoring the creation of the world. I've never seen this image before, and I cannot readily find it anywhere else on the internet, but my knowledge of aboriginal culture, mythology, and spirituality suggests nothing more than a birthing ceremony.


Quetzalcoatl, quite a favorite among ancient alien conspiracy buffs... although he's not an alien, and not ancient. Kind of a kicker that one, eh? Anyway, in the interest of the viewers, here's a much larger rendition of your little picture, so that the circled-object can be seen in better resolution:


Now, what we have here is some kind of medallion, or amulet. A charm or pendant really. You can even see the rope or thong that it is secured to opens in a loop above his hand.

This is important, because the portion of the Codex Borgia where this image comes from is believed, by many scholars, to be a representation of Quetzalcoatl traveling through the Underworld, as the personification of the planet Venus. Why is this interesting? Well, here's why this is interesting:

In Sumerian mythology Inanna is the personification of Venus. She has a myth, known as "The Descent of Inanna" where she travels through the Underworld. This myth is rehashed in Babylon with the goddess Ishtar.

In Ugaritic mythology Anat is the personification of Venus. Within the poems outlining the mythology of Ba'al he is slain by Mot, and Anat travels to the Underworld to rescue him.

In Greek mythology Aphrodite is the personification of Venus. During the Adonis myth Aphrodite has need and reason to travel to the Underworld where she hides Adonis with Persephone to protect him from a wrathful father.

Personified Venus travels to the Underworld. Hmmm... just like Quetzalcoatl, as a personified Venus travels to the Underworld. But no, that can't be an archetype related to the erratic movements of Venus through the night sky, and eventually disappearing beneath the horizon into the Underworld.

Gosh darn those danged archetypes and their refusal to ever just go away!

Also, your information concerning Ba'al is way off base. But I used up all my characters explaining why your art interpretations are incorrect. Oh well, maybe next time!

~ Wandering Scribe


edit on 29/4/13 by Wandering Scribe because: some grammar and spelling errors



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by dominicus
1. Ignorance(not knowing yourself, how you operate, God, Enlightenment)
2. The Ego being programmed by the world, selfish, dealing in Illusions.
3. The Body with its testosterone coloring thought, lust enslaving reason, animalistic urges pulling one towards lower useless pursuits.


ok so to know yourself you have to not know yourself...sounds a bit oxymoronic or self contradicting...

then the ego is bad but its also good...hmmm

and last but not least...calling the normal functions of the human body the lesser pursuits of the world?

thats just the age old guilt trip psychology with a different wrapper on it...nothing new...which is why i really dont care about esoteric wisdom, because it is more of the same distraction from reality and the same conjectural religious acrobatics even though it claims to be so different...i think the real hidden wisdom is not really hidden at all, just hiding in plain sight, its the things they show us, but misrepresent...not some super secret interpretation of scripture...that to me is just another waste of time...activity for the sake of activity...

i highly disagree...i think the mindless pursuits are the distractions we get from outside ourselves from the institutions of the world telling us that everything human is abnormal...and the guilty parties would also include gnosticism...its just another distraction, telling us we are wrong/sinful for being human when its impossible to be anything else in our current physical form...

i think the real truth lies somewhere in balance, not extremes to one or the other...and in not really giving too much of a flying flippin flap about anything...why worry your whole life about every little thing? that is what makes people unhappy, worrying about keeping up with their neighbors, whether or not they are good enough, or too fat, or ugly according to Hollywood...

problem is we are bombarded with this crap that falsely builds up the ego in the wrong way, instead of the self worth in the right way and then we are told to tear it down again?...thats really idiotic...

how about building self worth right to begin with...how about not worrying about the afterlife...how about not worrying about whether or not normal human bodily functions are sinful or not...

seems to me there is a whole lot of work and wasted time trying to please someone else or follow their prescription for enlightenment...

and the last thing im going to say to you is that this thread does not have the title "hijack this thread" the title is much different...so if you want to make your own thread and take this discussion about something completely off topic from what im trying to share here to another place, then be my guest, but this is not a place to hijack and take over to present your platform

thanks and have a nice day...

edit on 29-4-2013 by studythem1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by Wandering Scribe
 


This is an edit of my above post, since I did some more digging and found the image which you used. It is a picture of some aboriginal art from the Kakadu National Park. So, since I now know where its from, I was able to find a much larger, more detailed copy of the image, minus the circles of your variation:


This is a thumbnail, click on it to get a fuller, larger, crystal-clear resolution.

The crux of my argument remains the same though. This is, to the best of my knowledge, a visualization of an element of the Dreamtime creation mythology which the aboriginal cultures adhered to.

The Dreamtime was a belief in a period of "time" where time itself did not exist, similar to the Celtic Otherworld. During the Dreamtime it was Nature, through the guise of totems and spirit-animals, which helped shape the land in all its myriad faculties. Sky, sea, mountains, hills, planes, rivers, valleys, all of it was the result of a totemic animal doing something good, or bad, which resulted in the Great Earth responding. Again, very similar to how, in Irish creation mythologies, Ireland responds to invading forces either creating new land, or causing the land to wither and die.

Here are my observations on the actual image:

1) The Great Mother figure is still such. You can see her pregnant belly, and her body laid suppine in the "birthing" position. Interestingly, her head is that of a fish, or some other aquatic animal. This suggests maybe it is a rendition of how sea-life came to be, or maybe a tribe who traced their lineage to a sea-mother. Every aboriginal tribe had their own "creator," which is why they identified themselves as Bear Tribe, or Dog Tribe, etc. Perhaps this was some kind of Fish-Tribe creation myth.

2) The figure on the right is clearly an insect. You can see long antennae on its head, at least five primary appendages, large "bug eyes," and a thorax with protruding elements like some spiders and other insects. The exact insect I can't identify, but it looks strikingly like a praying mantis, or grasshopper to me.

3) The figure in the lower-left is, for all intents and purposes, a hybridization of a fish and a woman. What you assumed was a nod to the Y chromosome, is, in fact, the mouth of a fish, whose body can be seen extending back toward the head. It is a woman giving birth to a fish, or, possibly a fish morphing into a woman. Not an uncommon belief among tribal faiths which feature shamans, skinwalkers, nightstalkers, nahuales and other sorcerous creatures who can transform between human and animal. It might also literally represent the creation-myth belief of fish becoming people.

4) Right of the fish-woman you can see at least 2 more actual fish. Which lends further credence to the idea this was a Fish-Tribe who traced their origins back to some kind of aquatic totem.

5) Elders of the Tribe are also arrayed below. Not as aliens, or somesuch nonsense, but as simple Tribal ancestors. They honored the Fish as creator, and as such they become the Fish-Priests. Which, is not all that uncommon when you consider that the Sumerians had a species of Apkallu who were clothed in scales and fish-heads.

So, in conclusion, this is most likely an aboriginal rock painting outlining a creation myth. Not something to do with aliens and genetics. Simple, good ol' fashioned mythology.

~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by studythem1
 



and the last thing im going to say to you is that this thread does not have the title "hijack this thread" the title is much different...so if you want to make your own thread and take this discussion about something completely off topic from what im trying to share here to another place, then be my guest, but this is not a place to hijack and take over to present your platform

Last time I checked, the title of this thread was:


Why the biblical religions are dangerous?

I'm a supporter of the New Testament and have found that all it is, Is a blueprint to reach Enlightenment. "Hi-jacked" in this case is a misnomer.


ok so to know yourself you have to not know yourself...sounds a bit oxymoronic or self contradicting...

You're not getting me, cause its above your level of understanding. Everything "terrible" we see in this world is because there is a psychological-spiritual brokenness and deformity within human beings because the connection to Source is cut off and a worldly programming based "virus" is in place, instead of a soul.

So people whose intuition, empathy, heart, and love is cut off by the world's programming, nurture, and nature, are the cause of ALL the world's rapes, wars, corruption, greed, etc. If that's so hard to understand, then there's no helping you in your journey to figure this all out.


then the ego is bad but its also good...hmmm

The Only time the ego is good, is when it concludes that experiencing what exists prior to ego and the experiential Truth, is a worthy cause, and it begins to settle down a bit in the meddling of illusions.


and last but not least...calling the normal functions of the human body the lesser pursuits of the world?

You're not comprehending my context:
Man Becomes Genius After Head Injury


After some elementary math training following the accident, JP also experienced automatic visual imagery in response to certain mathematical formulas.

A friend of mine, a psychologist, brought this to my attention. Before the incident JP's two main interests were women and partying. Now his main passions are mathematics and drawing. In terms of more explicit personality traits, it appears that JP went from extroverted to introverted, from easy-going to neurotic, from careless to high achiever and from flaky to serious.

This was my case as well. Prior to Spiritual and Enlightenment experiences, my life consisted of chasing as much tail as I can possibly lay, as much substance abuse as I can handle, and as much alcohol as the stomach can muster.

After all the Enlightenment experiences, my time changed to being spent in studying quantum mechanics, philosophy, chess, art, meditation, infinite math, physics, and the pursuit of knowledge/wisdom.

Just like the fellow with the head injury becoming a genius, the experience of Enlightenment seems to turn on more parts of the brain as a cohesive whole, then before. I was once a mere animal basing my life on lust, money, and highs, and it all switched over to pursuing truth and becoming a Master of Self.

It's like going from Human version 1.0 to human version 101.4, and then you try to tell this stuff to the 1.0's, and none of them want to hear it because they are so deeply wrapped in the illusion.


thats just the age old guilt trip psychology with a different wrapper on it...nothing new

I'm not talking about a guilt trip. I'm talking about being a sleep walking animal, versus an awakened intellectual. All my regrets in my life come from the people I've wronged in my life when I was under the influence of alcohol, substances, lust (since I cheated on a fiance numerous times), and through ignorance/self-centerdness. Your taking me out of context again.


its the things they show us, but misrepresent...not some super secret interpretation of scripture...that to me is just another waste of time...activity for the sake of activity...

I'm morpheus offering you the red pill, but your mind is so wrapped up in conjecture and digression that you don't see the trees for the forest


i highly disagree...i think the mindless pursuits are the distractions we get from outside ourselves from the institutions of the world telling us that everything human is abnormal...and the guilty parties would also include gnosticism...its just another distraction, telling us we are wrong/sinful for being human when its impossible to be anything else in our current physical form...

You think you're ONLY human? good luck with that. I remember existing prior to the body and know I'm not from here and that the body is just an Avatar for this reality here



posted on Apr, 29 2013 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by studythem1
 



i think the real truth lies somewhere in balance, not extremes to one or the other...and in not really giving too much of a flying flippin flap about anything...why worry your whole life about every little thing? that is what makes people unhappy, worrying about keeping up with their neighbors, whether or not they are good enough, or too fat, or ugly according to Hollywood...

I never said to worry. Every action does have a reaction though.


problem is we are bombarded with this crap that falsely builds up the ego in the wrong way, instead of the self worth in the right way and then we are told to tear it down again?...thats really idiotic...

What is self worth but an illusion. Please show me this self worth as something tangible and absolute that I may hold and experience. Your talking about relatives, and I'm talking about Absolute Truth and your real Identity which is content, blissful, complete, does not meddle in self worth.....

I know people who are healthy and are happy and like being here on earth with sky high self esteem. I know others who have leukemias, cancers, daily in pain and sufferring who can't wait for the body to die and could care less about esteem. Which one's right?


how about building self worth right to begin with...how about not worrying about the afterlife...how about not worrying about whether or not normal human bodily functions are sinful or not...

WHo said anything about bodily functions being sinful? On the other hand, do I have a right to marry your sister if your whole family was to find out that I have a high-testosterone issue which makes me highly prone to cheating on her?

Or allowing you to marry my sister, without telling you that secretly she's suicidal and its a matter of time before she ends it, and also is addicted to heroine because her body craves for it?


seems to me there is a whole lot of work and wasted time trying to please someone else or follow their prescription for enlightenment...

The blueprints for enlightenment exist and they offer you to see for yourself if they are true. If all you can come up with is that seeing for yourself if they are true experientially is: "a whole lot of work and wasted time trying to please someone else or follow their prescription for enlightenment" well then illusion-Bias based on worldly programming has already made your mind up for you, without you realizing it. Tricky is the Ego to those who are unaware of it

I know one guy who spent the majority of his life, searching for alternative theories, reading thousands of books, writing hundreds more, then when he finally tasted Enlightenment he said that everything he ever read and wrote, is like "Straw to the Wind".

It seems your Bias blinds you and you're content with that because you self justify it in every way possible. Not much more to say other than I know the real you and love that part of you. The rest of you is all bullcrap and useless, pieces that will fall away in the blink of an eye, and then on the other side you end up finding out that the one guy on ATS was right, but you ended up going a different route because of too much unbalanced skepticism.

Oh well. Carry on fellow. Back to the status quo....................



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