Why the biblical religions are dangerous?

Silly humans gods are for kids.

Do you people on here who believe there is no "Creator" believe there is a unifying " force" in the universe?

I know this may seem off topic but it speaks to peoples apparent need to kling to "something". I'm wondering if you believe this apparent "need" is learned or inate,

It seems to me that humans have a herd mentality which means the vast majority will be led around by thier noses thier whole life. Knowing this what foundation would you lay for humanity to build upon to peacefully exist ( not that any "religion" has ever done that).

What reason would one have for being moral? And who would decide what is "moral" since it is apparently "moral" these days to allow a bunch of men steal our money and wreak havoc all over the world. And oddly they have a god. Hmm.

Look who has the enrgy/ control the ones who cling tightest to thier gods. That should tell you somethng about what god is.
it is simply the controling energy in our sphere and someone or group will always controll it and society.

Who should that Be?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Well when you put it into that perspective it definitely sounds like I really am to be pitied, but your still not seeing what I am trying to point out. First off though thanks for elaborating I see where your coming from. Its not that I am stuck with a life of self loathing and subjugation feeling like I never am anything, its more so an understanding of how low I can be, as well as how great I can be, if I am forgiven for my iniquities and my shortcomings, then I can only go up, if you will. I do not believe that the human race is just about destruction, that its all meaningless or that we dont have destinies and legacies, but to ask a further question; If say our lives are there to impact another persons life, to have that legacy to impact another persons destiny/legacy, then what happens to that person, and the person or people beyond that? What about the greatest leaders of ancient times, men that lived lives with much more impact than a modern day human could, in what way have they really influenced you? I am not saying historical figures have no meaning in your life, but rather I would bet those in your life who did have the most meaning would be those closest to you, family, spouse, etc, those are the ones that really shaped you.

So assuming those in your life that shaped you the most are those who are related to you or friends with you, people who you have intimate relationships with, yet may not be categorized and historical figures, that means I could agree with you on the same fact that Jesus who I have an intimate relationship with also has shaped much of my life, yet He is also a historical figure. I feel you may put too much faith into humanity, when what your really trying to tell me is that you put your faith into the 'good' people that you know, such as said friends and family. Why are Biblical religions dangerous? For the same reason your belief system is dangerous, and that is it involves 'people'. Religion is the enemy of God. I know your stuck on the belief that I am a slave who only serves to live another day, but that is incorrect, you see Heaven is a place where you continue to serve God, so why would that be something anybody would want you might ask? Let me ask you a question, why would you serve anybody in your life that you care about? Do you consider yourself a slave when you do a favor for a friend?

Did you know serving God is to praise God, and to praise God is to serve God? If you have ever admired the beauty of nature or taken a moment to savor probably most things in your life you enjoy, you would be praising God. Heaven is like this, it is a further discovering and praising of God through the exploration and enjoyment of His creation, imagine someone so infinite that it would take an eternity to explore every angle of their personality and wonder? I know it doesn't make sense to you because you see it as a give and take relationship, you cant let go of your humanity and your sense of something for something. I dont live my life feeling guilt or regret, or feeling ineptitude, thats your perception of me, I live my life with the ability to acknowledge my deepest flaws, something most people are incapable of doing.

You may not know this, but just as you accuse me of living a life of subjugation, so also do you. You serve man and you serve them by living for them and putting forth your legacy and whatnot out there. Your life does mean something, but to who does it mean? It can be both you know, God and man, there is no trade off, seems as though you think you either live for man, or you isolate yourself in a world of guilt and serve an invisible fairy tale, its not true. life is to be savored and enjoyed, which is why there are alot of guidelines in the Bible about how to live your life, most people think those guidelines are to keep one from having 'fun' but thats not true, they are there so you can live life to the fullest without getting yourself stuck in a rut.

I am sorry I do not post with such elegance as yours, if I missed any of your points I will answer them in the next post, but I do appreciate your replies, its very rare that we can discuss such manners in a polite way, I respect that in you. : )

reply to post by honested3


I don't need a god to appreciate this reality. I don't need a god to do anything, really. If you need a god, there is something missing inside of you. I'll elaborate later, I'm heading out for the weekend and won't have internet for a few days. I'll get back to you though.

reply to post by wildtimes


Thanks wildtimes. The moral argument for religion seems a very weak one. Not the least because it seems to contradict facts.

Neuroscience is an area that is making great progress in many areas lately. Perhaps one day this is where we will find and understand "god" (or the reason for belief in such).

There is also good research in the field of anthropology, with the help of neuroscience that is studying fossils (particularly endocasts) from the Australopiths onwards and plotting nervous system development (brain in particular) in comparison to things like proposed movement (bipedality, dexterity), how this is reflected in tool manufacture and use, art and culture etc. It would be fascinating to see just where "religion/god" fits in here, as it seems the religious notion of god is almost certainly a product of the process of evolution (rather than the other way round )

reply to post by honested3


Thanks honested3.

I have often wondered, if there is a God, why people don't avoid the confines of all these beliefs/ groups/ cults with their rule books, interpretations, tithes, prohibitions, bigotry and instead forge a direct relationship? Why the need to open themselves up to the manipulation and possible errors of claimed mediators rather than quietly go about it in the personal and private way that intimate relationships usually are?

So, in this sense, while I might not agree with your beliefs (I have genuine doubts, even if we take out the supernatural events, that any one particular Jesus of the new testament even existed. I also find the possibility so low that the God of the old testament exists, it could be called a practical certainty that he doesn't IMO) I find your kind of faith at least more understandable.

It really seems to be when people gather in numbers (cults) and hand over the ability to think for themselves that religion becomes dangerous IMO. Though, the same could be said for any group that becomes deluded and fanatical, yet religion seems to lend itself well to this.

I also feel the indoctrination of young minds into such beliefs should be stopped until they can satisfactorily back up such beliefs.

The naturalistic explanation seems so overwhelmingly supported and plausible for what we know of existence so far, that (again, IMO) it is the only horse in the race. Though I don't discount the possibility of "something" more to existence that we could call "God", for want of a better term. Yet not an anthropomorphic being that interferes in human affairs, listens to prayers etc. More in the way of a force, or principal that we have yet to find or understand.

If "something" does exist, possibly beyond our ability to detect or comprehend at present, I feel it would be far more interesting than anything religion has come up with so far. Though it certainly doesn't have to exist.

So perhaps we do have more in common than at first appears. I am too ignorant to be an atheist (though I certainly am atheist where the normal religious Gods of obvious myth are concerned) and concede some possibility that perhaps it's ignorance that causes me not to see what you do. Though, I honestly don't see it.

I usually get laughed at by atheists and told mine is a form of atheist "lite". Yet I don't really see it that way as much as honestly acknowledging ignorance.

Originally posted by ivbnu

Do you people on here who believe there is no "Creator" believe there is a unifying " force" in the universe?

I can see the possibility. Fascinating subject.

Originally posted by ivbnu
Silly humans gods are for kids.

Do you people on here who believe there is no "Creator" believe there is a unifying " force" in the universe?

I know this may seem off topic but it speaks to peoples apparent need to kling to "something". I'm wondering if you believe this apparent "need" is learned or inate,

It seems to me that humans have a herd mentality which means the vast majority will be led around by thier noses thier whole life. Knowing this what foundation would you lay for humanity to build upon to peacefully exist ( not that any "religion" has ever done that).

They cant answer that question really. Not that I wish to support "religion" mind you. This thread does open with the idea that the Hebrew and related understandings of "god" are all a sham and fiction.

What is interesting is that some of the same arguments used in the beginning of this thread, Abraham and his son being one, was used in good measure to justify the Baal child killings in the valley of Himmon. However, this is only a twisted interpretation of ideas. God told them during the peak of this time that He never demanded them to burn children.....and He in fact didn't by letting Abrahams son live. He even tells them that this child burning was a product of worshiping gods that their forefathers never knew....thus addressing the question then as it is now i.e. that He was the author of child burning and was really Baal. But there is no connection.

Its very poor research and understanding on the ops part to fire off charges like this without knowing what was really said about it back then. His question and charge are addressed.....its and old issue and the answer has been given.

Biblical religions are dangerous to me as they always set a clause in there for when they are on brinkmanship then there will be a true leader to rally them. Its like a big trump card just waiting to be played and gives an excuse to annihilate non believers!

Dangerous in the fact that it can be used to control people. I like that it teaches that we should try to be nice but then people could use the fact that we are nice to control us!

Dangerous in the fact that it must be strictly followed. I mean surely God would not demand that people only followed him, whats the point in that? It stifles progression and i dont quite but that. Have faith yes, dont believe any any evil gods yeah, but surely we need to explaore options.

Good in the way that it at least preaches mainly "good" morals. I mean the real biblical message is surely good, just manipulated, dated and misunderstood?

Originally posted by Cogito, Ergo Sum

Originally posted by ivbnu

Do you people on here who believe there is no "Creator" believe there is a unifying " force" in the universe?

I can see the possibility. Fascinating subject.

edit on 4-5-2013 by Cogito, Ergo Sum because: for the heck of it.

Yes, I can see it also. It is a good subject.


Any "Creator" that may or may not exist is irrelevant to the fact that there is certainly (in my opinion) a unifying force in the universe.

I think it is "love".

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by honested3

 

I don't need a god to appreciate this reality. I don't need a god to do anything, really. If you need a god, there is something missing inside of you. I'll elaborate later, I'm heading out for the weekend and won't have internet for a few days. I'll get back to you though.

Thats the essence of it all right there, "something missing inside of you." When you say my belief in God shows somethings missing, I would say your disbelief shows something is also missing. But thats the essence right there, you dont need God, but I do. So I dont think one could really draw any more of a clear line than that.

reply to post by CrypticSouthpaw



Sounds to me that you are just over-complicating simple matters. There is no difference between Spirituality and Religion. Religion doesn't have to be organized to be a religion. Spirituality is still a belief that we are more superior than what we are.

You can bring up any war though out the sands of time. Every single one of them was and will continue to be about control with either religion, resources, paranoia and power always being the catalysts.

Originally posted by Taurus98There is no difference between Spirituality and Religion. Religion doesn't have to be organized to be a religion. Spirituality is still a belief that we are more superior than what we are.

Your correct about most religions and spiritual people, it really is about a belief they are more superior, but not for all. I am a Christian, I am not religious and I dont use the phrase "I am spiritual" as I think it is pretentious, but what I do have is a relationship, a relationship with God/Jesus. So going with your logic, if I am religious or spiritual, then I am considering myself superior to others, but if I consider myself having a relationship with God, then that can only mean that I do not consider myself better than others, but the one I have a relationship with definitely is. So there you have it, I consider myself the same as everyone else, yet who I believe in is far better than everybody else.

reply to post by wildtimes


I prefer to call it "motion". As I have said before, the holy trinity is actually representative of three elements which comprise the ascension of manifest reality. Availability of motion, intention of motion, and manifestation of motion. Energy, will, physicality. Holy Spirit, the Father, and the Son. It's a triad of elements that have been recognized and lauded since the very beginning of religion.

While you call the primary principle "love", I refer to it as "motion" since motion, much like a spinning coin, is the key to balance and order. Two opposing forces are expected to clash in a flurry of flame and destruction...unless they meet and continue their momentum in a gyric dance reminiscent of the vortices used to describe the Torus, one of the foremost models of the universe as taken from spiritual texts.

The key to maintaining the balance between two polar forces is the sustenance of motion. Motion allows the maintenance of energy as well as the direction of intent, preserving the balance and flow of the cosmic energies. That's just my view.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I really like that!
You just provided me with a description that created a "leap" of understanding for me. Thanks, AI!

I just imagined the space images I've seen (on Science channel, I think) of two galaxies orbitting one another like in a dance. What an excellent idea, your "motion" notion. Well done, indeed.

reply to post by wildtimes


Critical thinking and scientific observation at their very best, ma'am. *salutes*

reply to post by AfterInfinity

You should also take a bow.


Sometimes I'm glad we don't know very much...there's always some new "dot" to connect, every single day!

reply to post by wildtimes

Any "Creator" that may or may not exist is irrelevant to the fact that there is certainly (in my opinion) a unifying force in the universe. I think it is "love".

"love" is an emotion. If you acknowledge that its a force then you invariably also have to acknowledge that its coming from a source capable of "loving"

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Energy, will, physicality.

you believe a 'will' created the universe?

reply to post by logical7

If you acknowledge that its a force then you invariably also have to acknowledge that its coming from a source capable of "loving"

I know how strong my love is for my children, and until you become a parent, you will not be able to comprehend it. Where that love "came from" is immaterial to its power and irrefutability.

reply to post by studythem1



Do you think you could say a bad word or two about Islam ? Maybe say some insulting or hateful things about Muhammad as well? Go ahead and just give it a go and see how they react. As a Christian I will tell you that with us you're pretty safe. But you do that against the religion of peace (pun intended) and they will probably torture you, rape you, and then behead you. What do you think, can you do a hateful thread on the evils of Islam and why the Quran is dangerous ?


Oh, I see... I didn't think so.