don't discouraged, a loving message from the Blessed Mother

reply to post by colbe

No one is perfect, I am not. Trying to help you by pointing out your wrong choice for President shows you could be in error concerning your rejection of God.

My choice of President has no bearing on my belief that this thread is incredibly ignorant of people who lost friends and family for absolutely no reason despite the love and righteousness of your god.

There is only one creator, don't call Him a "deity." He loved you first, He created you. God wants you to follow His way. He knows best.

Where was he when the bombing happened? Feeding starving kids in Africa? Or maybe speaking at a UN conference? Nope. Nowhere to be seen. I see no reason to even think about mentioning a deity who just talks and talks. People are dead and there is nothing your god did to stop it.

If that much love fails to save lives when it's needed most, then what's the point in talking about it?

God did not create that bomb in Boston, it was a human persons' choice to go against God and kill perfectly innocent people.

Isn't he omnipotent? One fried wire and those bombs would have died harmlessly. A good strong breeze to tickle the dogs' noses so they would find all three in time. Maybe even a small jarring of the explosives so they went off prematurely, killing the bomb makers and sparing the health of dozens of Boston residents. Yeah, so many ways to avert a tragedy without even looking like you're involved. But it's still too much for your god.

I prefer my comments kept together, they get taken out of context separating them.

I prefer dissecting them, it makes the process of connecting ideas and organizing the flow of exchange much simpler.

reply to post by newsoul

I pray that the victims are now with God in the Kingdom of Heaven. And if their families have faith in God they can rejoice knowing that.

Can you PROVE to me that God does not exist? I didn't think so......

What does that say about the atheists who were harmed? Your sentiments are ignorant of the fact that not everyone takes comfort in what you have to offer. In fact, much of what you say is easily construed to be snubbing the victims who have no particular appreciate for any deity, undermining the significance of their experience in your quest to uphold your political views.

I don't care about proving or disproving the existence of any deity right now. I care about explaining that the view presented in this thread show a distinct lack of consideration for the victims. OP gives credit to an all-powerful deity who did nothing, s/he fails to acknowledge the personnel who did do something, and s/he callously fails to address the condition of those who do not share her perspective. Part of communication is reaching a broad audience, no matter the beliefs. This post implies an exclusive nature, saying, "Oh, everyone my great and glorious god their allegiance has his condolences. He only means the best for you."

Right after two bombs went off? Really? That's all he has to say? He could have fried a wire, set off the explosives prematurely, directed the air currents to help the dogs uncover the devices in time. But instead of preventing tragedy, he prefers his subjects to apologize for his own failures. And then afterward, they will proceed to proclaim his mercy and benevolence in spite of the fact that he clearly did not a damn thing, in direct contrast to everything he could have done.

Pfft! You're gonna need a bigger shovel for that pile!

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
But the people that I ask to pray for me about things are alive. Dead people cannot hear, see, smell, taste or touch, so why not just take that prayer and tell God what it is I am praying about myself?

Catholics DO go straight to God. They also ask others to pray for them.
(scripture says we are supposed to pray for each other .. so asking for prayers to God is fine)
And how do you know that people who have left their bodies and have
gone to heaven can't see what is going on or hear when someone asks
for prayers? Scripture says otherwise ...

Catholic Answers

One charge made against it is that the saints in heaven cannot even hear our prayers, making it useless to ask for their intercession. However, this is not true. As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

Some might try to argue that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them!

In any event, it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

And how do you know that people who have left their bodies and have
gone to heaven can't see what is going on or hear when someone asks
for prayers? Scripture says otherwise ...

Catholic Answers

One charge made against it is that the saints in heaven cannot even hear our prayers, making it useless to ask for their intercession. However, this is not true. As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

Some might try to argue that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them!

In any event, it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding.

edit on 4/17/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

When John of Patmos wrote the book of Revelation he made it so full of metaphors and open end meanings that almost any passage from it can be interpreted as almost anything people want it to.

I guess I can't be sure that dead people aren't hearing me. But still, it just seems like unnecessarily having a middleman praying to dead folks to pray to God for me. Especially when I consider that the people that are alive I know can hear me when I ask for their prayers.

Anyways, thanks for answering FF.

Originally posted by colbe
I told jigger today, I am so depressed about Boston. I pray, please Lord come soon.

~ ~ ~

Pana, Illinois

message to Sharon Fitzpatrick


SUNDAY, APRIL 14, 2013

....THANK YOU. I AM GRATEFUL FOR YOUR COMMITMENT AND YOUR FIDELITY. OH
MY CHILDREN, BE AWAKE TO THE POWER OF GOD. YOUR PRAYERS ARE MOST PLEASING
TO HIM AND THEREFORE, BECAUSE YOU PERSEVERE IN PRAYER MANY THINGS THAT ARE
CONTRARY TO THE EVILS OF THE WORLD, SHALL BE EVIDENT. LET YOUR EYES BE OPEN
AS THE TRUTH REACTS TO LIES AND DECEIT. YOU WILL GASP AS YOU WITNESS THIS
POWER OF GOD....

www.petalsfromheaven.com...

Sharon, the messenger posts all of Mary's short messages in CAPS. They're brief, no harm done. God is going to bring a good out the awful horrid tragedy in Boston.

I do not post threads to argue, to make it Christian vs non-Christian, Catholic vs Protestant. If we all keep
talking about the faith and prophecy, people will remember when God shows every soul on the earth His plan,
His warning of the anti-Christ and in an NDE like way, show each one of us the state of our souls. God is going to do this to save soul. Remember, remember I keep sharing.

The Great Warning is going to happen when "the world is at it's worst" and "Communism comes again." Look
to the skies, there is a celestial event prophesied too.


colbe

reply to post by colbe

God is going to bring a good out the awful horrid tragedy in Boston.

And what did the Boston folk have to say when you said that? I hope you had a good answer ready when they asked why "God" chose to take those particular people instead of intervening.

Oops, sorry, taking a "s" out and adding one.

If we all keep talking about the faith and prophecy, people will remember when God shows every soul on the earth His plan, His warning of the anti-Christ and in an NDE like way, show each one of us the state of our soul. God is going to do this to save souls. Remember, remember I keep sharing.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by colbe

 

God is going to bring a good out of the awful horrid tragedy in Boston.

And what did the Boston folk have to say when you said that? I hope you had a good answer ready when they asked why "God" chose to take those particular people instead of intervening.

Do not be angry at God Afterinfinity. You have to trust God knows what He is doing. I remember a message where He speaks of why and when He takes a soul. I'll look for it. In the written Word, suffering comes to everyone, the good and the bad. You follow Christ.



1 Matthew 5:45
That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust.

reply to post by Cancerwarrior

Hope you don't mind if I jump in.

Praying to the dead? No, I tend to think of it as praying to the living, those who are eternally alive with God. Maybe I'm being species-centric, but if God knows about the Earth and what is happening here, and the devils do, and the angels do as well, I would expect people in Heaven to have a connection to the world just like the rest of the spirits.

Why pray to anyone but God? Just a human thing, I suppose. It seems to be built into our makeup. We look for someone who can identify with what we're going through. Sure, God knows everything, but it's not for nothing that new couples look forward to St. Valentine's Day.

I don't intend to be heretical, but in some sense St. Valentine is seen as a "specialist" in romance. When you look in a garden, if you see a statue of a saint, odds are it's St. Francis of Assisi, a specialist in animals and ecology. For colbe? I can't know her story, but in my ignorance I might suggest St. Joan d'Arc, a strong Catholic woman burned at the stake.

Beside all that is the fact of humanity. How can a human relate to God? Imperfectly at best. Jesus was human, but He was also God. Now, the Saints? They were woodworkers, merchants, writers, doctors, mothers, they were people, just like you. Some started their life of holiness when they were young, some when they were old. They could have been the people in my town, or my neighbors. I can understand them a little better than I can understand Jesus.

It may not seem immediately reasonable, but if I'm starting a carpentry project, a quick little conversation with St. Joseph, the guy who taught Jesus carpentry, doesn't seem like a bad idea.

With respect,
Charles1952

P.s. Please take this post as my personal, emotional, approach to the question. I'm not offering the Church's position here, just mine. - C -

reply to post by charles1952


I am not religious anymore, I stopped going to church a long time ago. That does not mean that I think I should neglect my spiritual side though. I try my best to live by the golden rule and I make time to pray alot. It helps me stay calm when I sometimes feel overwhelmed with anxiety and negativity. It is usually in these moments when I can really be still that God talks back.

I can understand why someone would want to talk to somebody that was maybe more "human" than God. However it has been my own personal revelation that God is much more an internal than an external force. I do think that all of us (alive and dead) are connected with God as long as we do not turn away from him. I guess in that context it is easier for me personally to talk to God and only God. I do understand where you are coming from though.

Thank you for your well written input sir.

Originally posted by colbe

...You have to trust God knows what He is doing. I remember a message where He speaks of why and when He takes a soul. I'll look for it. In the written Word, suffering comes to everyone, the good and the bad. You follow Christ.


1 Matthew 5:45
That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust.

I bookmarked this message myself to my e-mail, you can check the archives at Yahoo Groups - Seers 2. The rules on ATS, one can only post part of a quote so here is most of the message.

You'll read, people who believe in the Rapture (not so many anymore) often use the Scripture verse mentioned in the message but look, it is about when you are taken at death NOT the supposed Rapture.

Definitely, read the messenger's P.S.

+ + +


November 16, 2007 (Friday)

Message to Lec of the Philippines

After attending the 6:00 AM mass and thereafter
prayed my daily devotions such as the Lord’s Prayer,
the Hail Mary, Glory Be, the Apostles’ Creed and the
Prayer for Protection to St. Michael, the Archangel, I
then asked if the Father had anything to say. Here
is what I heard from the still, small, inner voice:

Son of my will, accept the sufferings that from time
to time befall you. These never escape my attention
but whatever I allow is measured and will not last as
soon as its holy purpose is achieved.

Suffering comes to ALL people, death many times but
why do I allow people to die before their stay on
earth is satisfied by a lifetime of many fruitful
years? Why do I take young people out of this life’s
existence when their full potential has never been
reached? Am I unfair? Or can you say that death of
anybody is a mere coincidence? No, but I say death
comes as my appointed time to a person and whether
that person is prepared or not. Have you not heard of
the Scripture, two persons working together, one is
taken, the other left behind? But where was the one
taken gone into? Only me can provide the answer to
these apparent life’s mysteries but trust Me that if
ever a young person is taken before full maturity
takes place, the time and day that that person leaves
this life is the best time for him/her to do so.

If a person is a wicked one, the day of his death is
the best for his soul for if I allow him to stay
further on, the more harm not only to his soul but
also to the living will that person commit.

A good, young person dies but I am not mistaken that
the appointed time of separation is the best time to
attain eternal glory. I know fully well in advance
how a person whether good or bad will live his or her
life in the future and how the future incidents in
life will serve to affect the eternal soul destiny.
So, trust Me, I am in full control of events and
incidents in each person’s life that whatever happens
will be for the soul’s better position in eternity. ....

Your Father,

Message Reception Ended : 7:00 AM
Duration : 15 minutes

PS: I never had any clue as to what the Father would
tell me. It is like coming to take a test on a subject
unprepared as to what part of the many lessons will
be given out. After the message reception and on my
way home, I bought my favorite newspaper, the
Philippine Star and there and then it’s my great
amazement to find out that three Abu Sayyaf
terrorists who perpetrated the terror bombing of our
office Tuesday evening were reported to have been
killed in a joint Police-Military operation that also
resulted in the capture of 3 more of their
accomplices. This day is Friday only 2 days separating
from the terror incident. After I learned that our
officemate Maan Gale Bustalino is dead from the bomb
attack, 2 more employees and a Congressman were also
dead while 2 more Congressman and many other
employees still remain critically wounded in the
hospital, I made one of the most fervent prayers I
ever had to God to please render immediate justice
that the bombing perpetrators be identified, arrested
and the full force of the law applied on them. I did
not pray that they get killed for that is against the
ambit of love but God has decided to apply the
ultimate penalty…death as the scripture says AN EYE
FOR AN EYE, A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH. Whoever lives by the
sword shall die by the sword.

I did not know beforehand that the part of the message
about the bad who die refers to the slain terrorists.
Only AFTER I have seen the newspaper headline was my
turn to be very surprised.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I hope you don't mind if I share a story with you AI.

I was diagnosed with stage 4 metastatic melanoma (the deadliest most aggressive form of skin cancer) back in July of 2011. I had never had any health problems before that other than an appendicitus. I was 32 years old big strong guy who never got sick. The Dr. told me I had a matter of weeks to a few months with the way the disease was spreading to my brain and lungs and such.

I was devastated. I thought "Why me? what the hell did I do to deserve this?" I thought God was punishing me and being a total arsehole because I've had so many other problems that I've had to overcome in my life. Then one day while lying in the hospitol bed I realized the opposite of that outlook. God had not sent me the problems I had in my life to keep me down and punish me. He was making me stronger. Strong enough to beat this damned disease. I am happy to say that I have been cancer free (much to the amazement of my doctors) for just over a year now.

As horrible a thing as getting something like a terminal cancer diagnosis is, I really can't call it an all bad experience. I had so many people, even complete strangers do so many wonderful things for me that it opened my eyes to the fact that not everyone in this world is bad. I was quite the pessimist before from serving in two wars and seeing firsthand the ugly side of humanity.

So when bad things happen and the world seems ugly and God seems like a bratty kid pulling the wings off of flies for his own amusement just know that there can be good things born from horrible things.

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

I hope you don't mind if I share a story with you AI.

I was diagnosed with stage 4 metastatic melanoma (the deadliest most aggressive form of skin cancer) back in July of 2011. I had never had any health problems before that other than an appendicitus. I was 32 years old big strong guy who never got sick. The Dr. told me I had a matter of weeks to a few months with the way the disease was spreading to my brain and lungs and such.

I was devastated. I thought "Why me? what the hell did I do to deserve this?" I thought God was punishing me and being a total arsehole because I've had so many other problems that I've had to overcome in my life. Then one day while lying in the hospitol bed I realized the opposite of that outlook. God had not sent me the problems I had in my life to keep me down and punish me. He was making me stronger. Strong enough to beat this damned disease. I am happy to say that I have been cancer free (much to the amazement of my doctors) for just over a year now.

As horrible a thing as getting something like a terminal cancer diagnosis is, I really can't call it an all bad experience. I had so many people, even complete strangers do so many wonderful things for me that it opened my eyes to the fact that not everyone in this world is bad. I was quite the pessimist before from serving in two wars and seeing firsthand the ugly side of humanity.

So when bad things happen and the world seems ugly and God seems like a bratty kid pulling the wings off of flies for his own amusement just know that there can be good things born from horrible things.

Bravo, oh my, what a powerful witness, your heart and your body healed!!

reply to post by Cancerwarrior


But that was you choosing not to give in. Had you given up and died, you would have said that was his will too.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I guess if I had died I would not have said anything really.

Bad jokes aside, I think that God is not so black and white. I'm sure that at some point in your life you have seen good people do bad things and bad people do good things. People try their hardest to ascribe human attributes to a divine being and chalk up bad events to being "his will." I personally saw some of the bad things God "allows" to happen in Bosnia and Afghanistan. For a long time I hated and cursed him for it. Now I have come to realize that it was not Gods choice. The horrible things that go on in war exist because of men who chose to do evil instead of good and this choosing is the real essence of what being human and existing in this crappy world is. For God to intervene and make there be no bad people or things in this world he would have to "dehumanize" us.

I don't know if that makes sense, I often find it hard to define what I think God is with words.

But like I said before. I really feel that there can be good things that come out of bad things and it helps make sense of this craziness called life. While I understand your anger, maybe better than most, I will still pray that you will find whatever truth gets you through this day happy to see the next.

reply to post by Cancerwarrior


But if "God" doesn't care to intervene in our affairs, why should we praise him? Just ignore everything he failed to prevent and rejoice for something he MIGHT have had a hand in?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Dear AfterInfinity,

He does intervene in our affairs, perhaps not to your liking, but that's not really the point. I'd like to refer you to a post in another thread dealing with something science can't explain.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I'd really like your comment on it.

One can always say "That isn't enough proof," or "Maybe some day science will have an explanation," but we can only deal with what we know now.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Argh...I just wrote about 3 paragraphs and then times out before I could post them and forgot just as quickly exactly what I said....

I am not sure I understand your question, but I will answer what I think you mean.

It's not that God does not want to intervene in this world. I think he does. Who knows, maybe the world would be full of even more wickedness if nobody prayed. Men choosing to do evil over good is the reason that it exists in this world at all. This whole choice between good/bad, black/white, yin/yang, is what it means to be human. For God to step in and wave a majic wand and get rid of all the evil, pain and suffering in the world he would have to take away everything that makes us human.

Alot of Christians will say that the devil is why bad things happen. However I think the only devil that exists in this world resides in the duality of human nature.

"Why do bad things happen to good people?" is not an easy question to answer. If anyone truly does have an answer. But thinking about it like this helps me look forward to tomorrow. I hope it helps you too friend.

reply to post by Cancerwarrior

It's not that God does not want to intervene in this world. I think he does. Who knows, maybe the world would be full of even more wickedness if nobody prayed. Men choosing to do evil over good is the reason that it exists in this world at all. This whole choice between good/bad, black/white, yin/yang, is what it means to be human. For God to step in and wave a majic wand and get rid of all the evil, pain and suffering in the world he would have to take away everything that makes us human.

The world is composed of a thousand shades of gray. We see it as black and white because we have difficulty processing all the subtle nuances interactivity between black and white, all the little things that maintain the balance between the shadow and the candle. For every give, there is a take, and we miss a lot of it because we're just human. This is a necessary system, and as such, it is unwise to remove or resist any part of it.

Without the shadow, the world would only be a hundred different shades of light. We would have lots of things to appreciate, but no reason to appreciate them because there is no shadow to show us unhappiness.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I like the way you put that. You said it better than I could have.