Students Told to Take Viewpoint of the Nazis

reply to post by _BoneZ_


Well, there is a conspiracy here, even if you dont see it.
Thanks for the direction I will check it out.

Originally posted by burntheships
Very insightful post, especially the aspect of the persuasive writing essay.

I would think that first, the children would have needed to understand the
techniques, otherwise it is too much of a confusion for them, especially the
grade school age, if they were even taught the technique at all....

Yeah, hopefully, Wrabbit gets that I was trying to add more information in regards to his statement about why it's not good for high school students and not a presumption that I was attacking him. Been clear as mud lately due to brain issues and man, is it affecting my ability to illustrate a thought. My little linebacker story is to basically illustrate that, even when the techniques have been taught (in the case of this class, they had to have been for the kids to write the essays), people can still fall for it at the college/university level. Of course, it WAS a linebacker who fell for it so probably quite a few knocks to the head may have been an additional factor.

They actually do teach persuasive writing techniques at the elementary school level. My youngest learned them in the 5th grade. I had already talked to her about persuasive writing (will go through articles that use it with her from time to time to detect it plus bias and isolating intent) so Mom looked less likely a paranoid loon and very cool that day thanks to those teachers.

Well lets ban all school debates because there are always going to be kids on the 'negative' side of the argument.

Hilter was both brilliant and dangerously stupid. Some things he planned had good purposes and ideals and others the complete opposite.

For a class the take the Nazi side and see what control and fear produces in the 'name of loyalty', might be a good exercise.

But the PC brigade...... have now exercised control and fear in having people afraid to examine the bad things in history and learn from them.

This same fear and control operates with the homosexual community and God forbid if you upset any of them because you believe different.

You see we haven't learned much from Hitlers fear and control of public opinion at all have we?

reply to post by WhiteAlice

Yeah, hopefully, Wrabbit gets that I was trying to add more information in regards to his statement about why it's not good for high school students and not a presumption that I was attacking him.

I do...and my lack of reply shouldn't be taken as anything more than respect for the OP and the direction the thread was meant to focus. My bad on generally missing that and I don't want to add to it by continuing. Nothing negative though.

reply to post by burntheships


I think that many, if not most, parents will not care. They will not understand the abuses that are sure to follow. I am even willing to go a step further and say that the vast majority of parents will not even know that something has changed and if they do they will say "it's from the school, they would never do anything that isn't in the children's best interest".

I am very lucky. I have a daughter in 5th grade. I also have the chance to spend at least an hour a day with her talking about what she learned and what they were teaching her. We are fortunate in that we live in a fairly conservative area so I don't have to deprogram very much of the days learning before I teach her to think for herself. I am thankful for that and I understand that not everyone has that option. What I don't understand are those parents that don't care enough about what their kids heads are being filled with to even bother to read a syllabus or talk to a teacher or attend a school board meeting.

Sorry for the rant. My frustration level is rather high at this point in time.

It never hurts to try to understand the point of view of the opposition OR of those who are different from you. In fact, I think it's an exercise that a lot of people could stand to explore.

Originally posted by Doc Gator
reply to post by burntheships

 

I think that many, if not most, parents will not care. They will not understand the abuses that are sure to follow.

Yes, doc, and thank you for understanding what is at the heart of the issue.
This is socialism, and this is how its done.

In Switzerland, they do it this way. If they decide your going to be a bank teller, that is what
you become. Its a New World, not a "Brave" one.

1984 and A Brave New World, this is soon to be a reality.

Good for you and your daughter too, happy to hear there are bound to be some
conservative pockets, of course they will be targeted, and dissasembled eventually.

Its all going according to plan, and you can rant on any thread of mine, anyday.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It never hurts to try to understand the point of view of the opposition OR of those who are different from you. In fact, I think it's an exercise that a lot of people could stand to explore.

When you gaze upon the face of evil, when you take even a part of it into yourself, the evil doesn't change. It changes you. The truth of this ca be seen each and everyday all over the world, but the difference is most stark here in the USA. The decline and decay of even basic human decency in the past 50 years is as dramatic as it is terrible.

you can teach the same idea with a more tasteful choice of subject matter

take the viewpoint of the iraqi's and say bush is evil

wait, what ?

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It never hurts to try to understand the point of view of the opposition OR of those who are different from you. In fact, I think it's an exercise that a lot of people could stand to explore.

When you gaze upon the face of evil, when you take even a part of it into yourself, the evil doesn't change. It changes you. The truth of this ca be seen each and everyday all over the world, but the difference is most stark here in the USA. The decline and decay of even basic human decency in the past 50 years is as dramatic as it is terrible.

Your words instantly made me think of this

Originally posted by g146541

Had Hitler succeeded in "wiping out the jews", none of them would have settled in the mid east and there would be no war there.

Taking that same logic and applying it to the others he killed...

Are you really saying you think this is a good thing?

reply to post by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
When you gaze upon the face of evil, when you take even a part of it into yourself, the evil doesn't change. It changes you.

I said nothing about taking a part of evil into one's self. A bit dramatic, I think...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by DarthMuerte

 

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
When you gaze upon the face of evil, when you take even a part of it into yourself, the evil doesn't change. It changes you.

I said nothing about taking a part of evil into one's self. A bit dramatic, I think...

How do you think like such an evil person without allowing evil into yourself? You have to internalize it in order to be able to argue it's "merits". There is no need to explore the evil of men like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and others to be able to recognize it. The slaughter of millions of innocents is evil regardless of which government sanctions it. Those who support the sanctioned slaughter of evil, especially those who see such slaughter as "good" are truly evil themselves.

Originally posted by burntheships

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
High School is plenty old enough to be introduced to the concepts of critical and analytical thought, yet the problem is looked at as exposing the poor kids to a very ugly line of something THAT REALLY DID HAPPEN and not THAT long ago for contextual importance.

Hi Rabbit,

I agree with much of what you have said, except one of these examples
the children were only grade school age. And, this is all being tracked and recorded,
and put into a data base.

The tracking of children has been a situation that has been around for a very long time. I think the first step in it was our government and Project Talent. I totally agree with you that Gates and Murdoch, especially, have a very heavy interest in education but I'm pretty darn sure that they view themselves to be saviors and equalizers of education. It's interesting to note that Murdoch actually supported free public education in his country of birth all the way to the tertiary level. The Gates Millenial Foundation will also identify children that they find promise in and give them full scholarships. The student cannot apply for the scholarship, themselves, but they can be nominated by an unrelated third party. I did volunteer work at a small school in a very need area years ago and Gates was behind 5 scholarships for some of the high school graduates in just one year. Considering the poverty of the area, it's unlikely that those kids would have been able to attend the schools that they could've academically attended otherwise if income wasn't a factor. My cousin is actually a Gates Millenial Scholarship recipient and it paid for him to receive his phd at Cambridge.

The way the Gates Millenial Scholarship is set up rather necessitates that information being accumulated and available about the student. This is, however, a practice that has been occurring for a very long time (at least 53 years) at the federal and state level. Remember the words "this will go on your permanent record"? The problem is access to that information and whether the intention is for good or ill and I think that's what you're rightfully questioning. Am I right?

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
you can teach the same idea with a more tasteful choice of subject matter

take the viewpoint of the iraqi's and say bush is evil

wait, what ?

Well we all know where that line of thinking is going, but hey, this conservative agrees with you. Now when to comes to Obama I wonder what tune you will sing?

Originally posted by WhiteAlice

The tracking of children has been a situation that has been around for a very long time. I think the first step in it was our government and Project Talent.

Not heard of that, what year did that originate?

I totally agree with you that Gates and Murdoch, especially, have a very heavy interest in education but I'm pretty darn sure that they view themselves to be saviors and equalizers of education

Yes, that and much more...I look at Gates funding for vaccines, GMO, etc...

The way the Gates Millenial Scholarship is set up rather necessitates that information being accumulated and available about the student.

Thats logical, I wonder is this voluntary to the applicants though, I would imagine it is.

This is, however, a practice that has been occurring for a very long time (at least 53 years) at the federal and state level. Remember the words "this will go on your permanent record"? The problem is access to that information and whether the intention is for good or ill and I think that's what you're rightfully questioning. Am I right?

To some degree this has occured, nothing in comparison to this new data base...

I also look at the architects of the Core Curriculum, see the links in the OP.
An unprepentant terrorist in charge of curriculum, what could go wrong?

reply to post by burntheships


I'd be more impressed if they were told to think like with the Constitution in their hearts rather than let the government keep wiping their behinds with it!

Beware of Big Government and Authoritarian regimes. Keep true to small government, a warrior-ethic and creativity and we have a chance of seeing this mess out.

Originally posted by burntheships

Originally posted by g146541

Had Hitler succeeded in "wiping out the jews", none of them would have settled in the mid east and there would be no war there.

Taking that same logic and applying it to the others he killed...

Are you really saying you think this is a good thing?

Considering all of the death and dischord the israeli terrorists have spread, DEFINATELY!
The children of the "displaced victims" are spreading destruction on the entire region under the guise that they have a right to defend themselves.
Defending against rocks with WP and apaches is a bit overkill.
I can see what the teacher was doing with this assignment, he wanted his students to think.
But it appears some folks do not want some things talked or thought about, it comes with too many questions.

Maybe the teacher was trying to do this, but in a very clumsy manner....





I was given a reverse assignment at school, by my very smart but alternative thinking Social studies teacher.

The class was split in two.... We were not told who the groups represented, to stop preconceptions .


Certain historical facts regarding the wage and price freeze / rent hikes by landlords / situation in a large city in the depression. And newspaper articles reporting the conflict / evictions .


I remember this headline the most " ********** are second class citizens in their own country " ( or similar type hype ) Because some people and family's were evicted by " rich immigrant landlords ".


They were isolated incidents, but the media made it into a big deal. Front page news ( we were not told why or whom was behind this ).


One side of the class got very "nationalistic" and came up with some radical solutions.




End of lesson.


It wasn't until the next week we were told who we represented. And had to read out our solutions. It was scary to see how far as a group we were willing to go.



This kind of thing teaches students were are all capable of anything, if given the right / wrong situation

There is nothing wrong whatsoever in taking perspective. This is what the Nazis lacked and modern Nazis should definitely hear about this story. This is more empathetic than pathetic.