Students Told to Take Viewpoint of the Nazis

reply to post by burntheships


I have read somewhere that the practice of forced sterilisation had got started in other countries than Germany, earlier, even in some areas of USA
en.wikipedia.org...

Surely I am against nazi and similar practices, named with different names, provided by other peoples.

reply to post by dragnik


Yes, and how ironic that Bill Gates has funded vaccines that have actually reduced
the worlds population.

"First we got population. The world today has 6.8 billion people. That's headed up to about 9 billion. Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent."

www.marketoracle.co.uk...

As I said in the OP, history is repeating itself, only with an Orwellian twist.

This popped up a memory of this film.

It is a bit of a must see concerning this topic.


Extremely similar.

Hmmmm.....what was so wrong with this assignment?

If anything, it exercises their ability to critical think, and introduces them to thinking outside the box. By taking the viewpoint of the Nazi's, they must first understand what the Nazi's viewpoint was, which is applicable to the subject matter. Then by taking their viewpoint, they are able to mentally 'argue both sides'.

This way, they can learn to reason with the why they either agree or disagree with this viewpoint.

In my opinion, that's the best way to fully research and learn a subject matter; being able to argue both sides.

I'd say the assignment is brilliant.

reply to post by Rubic0n


I remember having to read that book for grade 10 english class, this definitely made me think of this. This assignment though, doesn't seem too bad for high school students. I remember learning about nazi propaganda during high school, I think it was in grade 11, we didn't have to do an assignment like that but we did go fairly in depth about how propaganda affects populations and why people would act like they did in nazi Germany.

Also, not to get too off topic but, I'm not American but I was curious about this Common Core curriculum people had been mentioning in this thread so I went and checked it out and I really can't see why everyone is demonizing it. Most of it seemed really vague and general and didn't mention anything at all about what kid's should be learning in class other than techniques. I looked specifically in the math and history sections and could only find things about building functions, citing sources properly, learning the difference between primary and secondary sources and so on. Most of what I read on there seemed like a really good idea, so I was just curious about why people on here seem against it. Again I'm not American and I've only been to their website and read the standards themselves so maybe I'm missing something.

It's definitely controversial because of how polarzed the concept of Nazis has become, but thinking outside of the box, and putting yourself in the shoes of others, is a common, effective, practice in teaching. It helps with immersion. Immersion helps learning.

Whether you like it or not, Nazis were part of world history.

To those "offended" (why?):

You can chose to wave your little "I'm offended and this is my knee-jerk reaction" PC flag, but just try to think about it on a deeper level next time.

The Nazis survived WWII. Call it the "Underground Reich," or what have you. This may well be innocuous, but too much is happening for me to dismiss all of this as innocuous.

Home schooling anyone?

Originally posted by EarthEvolves
The Nazis survived WWII. Call it the "Underground Reich," or what have you. This may well be innocuous, but too much is happening for me to dismiss all of this as innocuous.

Home schooling anyone?

The most prominent (mostly scientifically important) ones have been given lives and jobs under the U.S flag. One of those prominent nazi's was a decorated Nazi hero. A lot of surpressed people forced into slave labor under his project leads died because of him. He ran the Nasa space program afterwards under a full pardon. Most others ended up in the cia and the likes. No convictions but new lives, good job...

funny, betcha the kids didn't have much to go on to formulate thier viewpoints except for the ususal propogenda

Ten Questions to the Zionists, by Rabbi Michael Ber Weissmandl
TEN QUESTIONS TO THE ZIONISTS

1. IS IT TRUE that in 1941 and again in 1942, the German Gestapo offered all European Jews transit to Spain, if they would relinquish all their property in Germany and Occupied France; on condition that:

a) none of the deportees travel from Spain to Palestine; and

b) all the deportees be transported from Spain to the USA or British colonies, and there to remain; with entry visas to be arranged by the Jews living there; and

c) $1000.00 ransom for each family to be furnished by the Agency, payable upon the arrival of the family at the Spanish border at the rate of 1000 families daily.

2. IS IT TRUE that the Zionist leaders in Switzerland and Turkey received this offer with the clear understanding that the exclusion of Palestine as a destination for the deportees was based on an agreement between the Gestapo and the Mufti.

3. IS IT TRUE that the answer of the Zionist leaders was negative, with the following comments:

a) ONLY Palestine would be considered as a destination for the deportees.

b) The European Jews must accede to suffering and death greater in measure than the other nations, in order that the victorious allies agree to a "Jewish State" at the end of the war.

c) No ransom will be paid

4. IS IT TRUE that this response to the Gestapo's offer was made with the full knowledge that the alternative to this offer was the gas chamber.

5. IS IT TRUE that in 1944, at the time of the Hungarian deportations, a similar offer was made, whereby all Hungarian Jewry could be saved.

6. IS IT TRUE that the same Zionist hierarchy again refused this offer (after the gas chambers had already taken a toll of millions).

7. IS IT TRUE that during the height of the killings in the war, 270 Members of the British Parliament proposed to evacuate 500,000 Jews from Europe, and resettle them in British colonies, as a part of diplomatic negotiations with Germany.

8. IS IT TRUE that this offer was rejected by the Zionist leaders with the observation "Only to Palestine!"

9. IS IT TRUE that the British government granted visas to 300 rabbis and their families to the Colony of Mauritius, with passage for the evacuees through Turkey. The "Jewish Agency" leaders sabotaged this plan with the observation that the plan was disloyal to Palestine, and the 300 rabbis and their families should be gassed.

10. IS IT TRUE that during the course of the negotiations mentioned above, Chaim Weitzman, the first "Jewish statesman" stated: "The most valuable part of the Jewish nation is already in Palestine, and those Jews living outside Palestine are not too important". Weitzman's cohort, Greenbaum, amplified this statement with the observation "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe".

www.truetorahjews.org...

and thats a RABBI asking
darned antisemite

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
But wait... what exactly was the point of this study or essay? I mean... the exact reason for such "test"?

Because there can be a lot of them that can help you understand history and how the human mind works under certain variables, and when put under the right context will help you to better understand what exactly went through those men's minds.

You could do the same with other eras or personalities like "Understand Caligula for a day"...

Depending on whats behind it, its not necessarily evil... it may actually help you get further down the rabbit hole and get to know evil even better.

EDIT: and things have to be talked about... having "forbidden subjects" dont really help and you know when you dont learn from the past you're doomed to repeat it. I dont get this "nazi taboo" thing... never did.

edit on 13-4-2013 by FraternitasSaturni because: (no reason given)

But that's just it. They do not want us to have a clear understanding of what is happening to us and what is about to happen to us. That's why we have these "no-no topics" that nobody is allowed to investigate or ask questions about or even talk about... All we need to know is they were bad, but now they are gone, and so we never ever have to worry about a government doing anything wrong ever again.. seems legit to me lol.

reply to post by Danbones


So its a lot like like 9/11 then...

Slaughter your own as an excuse to invades someone else home.

idunno, me i would just point out what's wrong with every race in rebuttal to the assignment also including cons of my own race, and even what's wrong with extraterrestrial races just to confuse the teacher. i would be like "oh so only some people are crap? go mow lawns for a living you can't hack it neocon bazsterd. furthermore why am i in school when i can make chit tons o money remarketing barbecues?"

Uh oh, I read Mein Kampf.
and look how I turned out. omgomgomgomg!
Gonna have to disagree with you on this one Crusader Kitteh, I think it would have been a good exercise for these kids. You cannot teach critical thinking without being able to put one's self in diametrically opposed positions.

I think it's high time all the bugaboo about Nazis is demystified. The Germans were no more evil than anyone else, they simply allowed the wrong people to take power and then they were helpless to prevent the fallout resulting from it. I see a parallel with American politics that can be inferred here that has led us to become involved in unjustified wars.

Not sure I see the problem with the assignment at all. Understanding the workings of propaganda should be a requirement for all high school students. It might make them less susceptible to the whims of Madison avenue while they're at it.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention BTS. Interesting story for sure.

reply to post by burntheships


OP, do you ever do a search of forum topics -- or even just look at the ATS homepage -- for similar threads before creating a redundant thread?

Thread already on this subject

Originally posted by burntheships
Not heard of that, what year did that originate?

Wiki has a decent summary of the National Defense Education Act of 1958 that was the federal initiation of this. Previously, this kind of behavior was more of a subject of research than a federal mandate.
Project Talent occurred 2 years after the NDEA of 1958 and included a thorough study plus lifelong re-assessment for 440,000 students in the country. The site itself makes zero mention of the NDEA of 1958 and instead points to a researcher named Flanagan. It's an interesting omission as the NDEA of 1958 actually made it so that Project Talent could happen nationwide to basically assess the talent base in the US and hunt for those who could potentially go into STEM type of careers (science, technology, engineering and mathematics). I imagine that the omission is because aspects of the NDEA of 1958 were highly controversial and were responded to by universities across the US with a bit of righteous outrage.

Originally posted by burntheships
Yes, that and much more...I look at Gates funding for vaccines, GMO, etc...

Yeah but it's tough. Sometimes I think about what I would do if I had crazy amounts of money and I know that I would do as much as I can to fund what I would personally perceive as areas that were important and flailing. Schools would be the top of the list for me. However, the problem with that is that the financial magnitude of being able to do so also subverts democracy in the same process. It simply allows one person to have a whole lot of say in what gets pushed instead of it being something that is initiated through consensus til 50% +1. Gates isn't a scientist so he's also dabbling into areas outside of his expertise. The Gates Millenial Scholarship--less harm done. Vaccines and especially GMO (cough cough Monsanto)--potentially harmful depending on which expert you talk to.

Originally posted by burntheships
Thats logical, I wonder is this voluntary to the applicants though, I would imagine it is.

It's probably presumed that, because the scholarship is worth so much and is a full ride that the recipients are okay with it because of the reward. I do think that they notify students when they have been nominated but can't be 100% sure of that. I remember something about that being the case though.

Originally posted by burntheships
To some degree this has occurred, nothing in comparison to this new data base...

Perhaps not in comprehensive scale but I know that gifted program beneficiaries were basically being assessed on many accounts, including psychiatric, for years and years. Very heavy amounts of information were collected about these students (roughly 1-2% of the US population) but, purportedly, that information was supposed to be destroyed after 5 years and was kept in its own file with limited access until destruction. So you bet, they did some pretty heavy snooping into the private lives of children for a very long time. Now it's just on a much grander scale.

Originally posted by burntheships
I also look at the architects of the Core Curriculum, see the links in the OP.
An unprepentant terrorist in charge of curriculum, what could go wrong?

Interestingly enough, I found this letter by Bill Ayers (and yes, I agree that he is a reprehensible, arrogant, and unrepentant terrorist that should have zero to do with education) that he wrote in November of 2012 that basically blasts Obama for this educational reform: Ayers' letter to Obama on educational reforms At some point, he seems to be channeling a little Savio there.

Spent a whole lot of time reading a lot of pro and con, attempted to look at the actual framework (clear as mud) and more. I focused on literature because that would be the source that would provide the greatest vehicle for ideas. It was pretty broad. I found the informational and fiction being used to not be so much an issue because students do need to be able to read both. What I did find extremely disheartening were the allegations that only short bursts of text would be used and the emphasis on deconstruction. Deconstruction of literature is great in that it can provide insight into the author's intent but is iffy in accuracy. Not actually reading the whole book and it takes a whole lot away from a literary experience. Having a book on Justin Bieber, while appealing to a younger age group, kind of nauseating. The most interesting part is that what is being pushed seems to be more critical thinking skill development. That hasn't happened on a national level for a very long time as there has been a massive dichotomy in who gets taught that particular thing. Very experimental--could be bad or good. Will chew on it.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Oh, no worries. I think alot of the OP is missed, for some reason people
go boggle eyed when they read "Hilter" and they miss it (not you)

Of course, I have been opposed to social engineering for a while,
and I would not my children tracked by a Bill Gates database, grades or otherwise.

I have absolutely no problem with history, english, and even persausive writing,
if, and that is the hinge, if they are giving the children the truth of the matter to
start with.

reply to post by MrInquisitive


Oh, you did not realize that beezzer and I
were conspiring together?

Here of all places, you still can't find people who will quote what Hitler actually said about the Jews.

Ever wonder why English instruction is centered around rhetoric rather than clarity and accuracy?

In English class students should learn the meaning of language, what it can and can't define and process.

Instead, English instruction is about persuasion first and truth whenever.

One reason to suspect a hidden agenda.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


Alice,

Wonderful post, and sharp insights. Thank you much
for your comments, a great addition to the thread.

I hope to come back tomorrow when I have time,
to discuss.