Students Told to Take Viewpoint of the Nazis

We must protect ourselves from thought. We must never understand the reasoning of evil. We must pretend all is pink roses and fluffy bunnies.

Anything else is abhorrent and must be demonised.

We must never ever learn from the past.

reply to post by burntheships

Okay...

High school is full of hypotheticals, like “How does one solve for x?” and “What happens if I skip class?” But this week, students at Albany High School were given an alarming thought puzzle: How do I convince my teacher that I think Jews are evil?

That is the first paragraph in your first link... Am I misunderstanding this as having been to High School students? I can see how some say that's too young ...but if not then, when? They'll never be challenged to think that way again once they leave High School and in today's society especially. College will, but what % will even try?

Ironically, it's the vast majority who won't be put to testing such ideas and approaches outside of High School that are the most vulnerable to falling for it being done again ...should such a period repeat itself.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

If you disagree with this assignment, age group aside,

I dont disagree with the concept of the assignement, I think that the way
it was presented is right out of a Saul Alinksy playbook.

It is divisive. And, the children are being tracked, and all of this goes in a data base.

Does anyone else but me find that wrong????

One thing though, understanding why the Nazis did it is important.

Yes, this is especially important. If history is to be taught correctly,
let it be complete! This was focused soley on the "race" of the issue
leaving out the complete picture.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by burntheships

 

Okay...

High school is full of hypotheticals, like “How does one solve for x?” and “What happens if I skip class?” But this week, students at Albany High School were given an alarming thought puzzle: How do I convince my teacher that I think Jews are evil?

That is the first paragraph in your first link... Am I misunderstanding this as having been to High School students?

True, one controversy was a high school class, one was grade school. And the main point
of my OP is about the fact, that this is Common Core standards, and the kids are being
tracked.

I hope this helps, there is a BIG PICTURE here...

Originally posted by winofiend
We must protect ourselves from thought. We must never understand the reasoning of evil. We must pretend all is pink roses and fluffy bunnies.

Anything else is abhorrent and must be demonised.

We must never ever learn from the past.

Here let me finish for you...

We must only read part of the story,
We must come to rash judegments.
We must never see the BIG PICTURE

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
26 million soviets died at the hands of the nazis... can we please stop focusing on the jews for a second?

That's nothing to the number of Soviets killed by the Soviet government.

Thank you for that... That was expected. I know.

Great so... Now that we got that out of the way, can we then talk freely about the Nazis?

See this is what I dont get. Compared to Hitler, Stalin was a pure psychopath... not nearly as intelligent as hitler and did not contribute anything to this world - at least well... hitler did something, his rockets got us to the moon, his planes along with the rockets and avionics opened a new era of aviation, and of course the economic miracle he pulled off in germany from 33 to 39 - at least the man liked his people... had porsche to design an affordable car for the people, certified himself that it was a good, reliable car - reliable enough that those volkswagens today still run - he was Time Magazine's "Man of the Year" After all for a reason... I'm not making this up - Stalin was a psychopathic murderer that left no legacy at all besides millions of corpses and poverty, and a closed nation. Yet... the name that went down in history as symbol of evil itself was Hitler's. I mean... History is somewhat unfair when it comes to evil credits.

Stalin's grave should be spat and pissed on everyday forever - there should be a UN holiday to mark the occasion. The "piss and spit on stalin's grave day - and bring a shovel. Or use one of our own".

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I wouldn't even advocate this for general high school students. AP maybe, but I think that would have to be a decision made for each individual student. If our schools where better equipping our children for life, I would be much more willing to bend on this, but how many high school grads can't find DC on a map? I think we need to worry about teaching basic skills and knowledge before we move on to critical analyses and projections.

reply to post by burntheships

Oh, fair enough and I didn't mean to draw away from the big picture you take from the material presented. We draw very different pictures to stand back and gaze upon is what I think it boils down to. A fundamental core difference in the approach of exposing kids to all sides of life and reality to develop skeptical and questioning citizens ..vs, predetermined lines of thought and understanding as set by higher ups in the bureaucracy of the educational system.

...and of course, if these types of assignments from children are being recorded and tracked for data patterns and indications of anything later? I guess folks at sites like this won't need wonder when that magic line of police state has been crossed. We'll be the ones actually dragged out in the middle of the night to be seen as the first indicators it's happened. I can't even imagine what such a record would have to say about me or how a bean counting profiler might draw a psych package on my thought process.

I'll move on tho... It seems like a fascinating topic though and all over the news at the moment.

Originally posted by Doc Gator
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I wouldn't even advocate this for general high school students. AP maybe, but I think that would have to be an decision made for each individual student. If our schools where better equipping our children for life, I would be much more willing to bend on this, but how many high school grads can't find DC on a map? I think we need to worry about teaching basic skills and knowledge before we move on to critical analyses and projections.

Exactly, this is really key to the issue....

And, what is the point of tracking these children?

The tracking is not in any way "disclosed" to these childrens parents.

reply to post by burntheships


Firstly I can almost guarantee you that if this hits mainstream TV news they won't talk about from an educated standpoint, just from a zombie polarized one.

Secondly you have one of the best Avatars on ATS, those eyes man...... those eyesssss!!!!!!!!!!

Never change your AV please, I'm like reading your posts and picturing you sitting on a miniature throne in small castle LMAO, and a staff too

I'm not sure of the reason for the assignment, but it seems like a good ideal
it makes the kids think, and perhaps could make them see propaganda when its
used on them.

Of course I'm sure that line of thought makes me racist ,because of something that
happened long before I was born.

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


Agreed with the UN holiday thing. I think it becomes difficult (and uncomfortable) when you start talking about degrees of evil. But if we are going to rank them, I agree that Stalin was "more evil" than Hitler. But Mao spanked them both.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Rabbit,

I always appreciate your comments, thanks for the clarification,
and you helped me to clarify as well.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
reply to post by burntheships

 

Firstly I can almost guarantee you that if this hits mainstream TV news they won't talk about from an educated standpoint, just from a zombie polarized one.

Yes, your right here, that is what the MSM does, and I can see that slant
in the article also. Polarize the public...thats about all they are good for.

I noticed that they put the Common Core at the very last sentence of the article.




In hind sight I really should have taken the time to put
this in a General Conspiracy format, as that is what it is...it has a lot of tenticles.



A castle eh...? sounds right up my alley.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


The problem is that their assignment was to write a persuasive essay. According to my profs in college, I was a very good writer. One of the writing classes that I took was on persuasive writing. Persuasive writing is exactly what it is named--it's a piece written to persuade the reader to adopt a specific position using a very deliberate methodology that has shown to be effective in doing just that. To illustrate, one of my classmates was a linebacker for my uni's football team and I wrote mine on the subject of anti-slaughterhouses. After class, he told me that, for the first time ever, he felt terrible that he ate probably 10 cheeseburgers everyday (from McDonald's--should've reassured him that that wasn't meat lol) and that he was going to become a vegetarian because of what I wrote. Imagine his look of shock when I told him that I wasn't a vegetarian and that I was going to grab a burger. Probably mean but I wanted him to understand that he just got mentally "owned" so that next time he wouldn't be so quick to adopt the ideas from a single piece of writing. And for the record, I don't use persuasive writing ever. I find it rather unethical. It is absolutely propaganda formation and, as much as people don't like to think about it, it can be very effective.

Now, whereas reflecting on both sides of an issue--kind of like your idea--I'm completely down with. I think looking at history and looking at the thought processes that motivated such groups/people from an alternate perspective is a very powerful teaching tool. Doing that and then applying it to persuasive writing, however, can have seriously unintended consequences. Kind of like the linebacker and I. If this was for a class that had been taught critical thinking skills and the next step in the lesson was to write a retort or rip it apart, then that'd be awesome because it would teach propaganda detection and the process of dismantling it. No mention of that being the total purpose to show that dual sided view in the article though and how scary persuasive writing can be.

Have you ever seen the movie Die Welle/The Wave? It's a German film where a very well meaning teacher decides to illustrate to kids how effective some things are. Very worth watching and think it's on Netflix: www.imdb.com...
What the teacher at the Albany school may have been attempting to do could have had the best of intentions behind it but the road to hell is paved with good intentions, no? Especially when we do have a bit of an issue with anti-Semitic beliefs already. My eldest had a friend in high school that I thought was a really nice kid until he covered my youngest's minecraft dwelling with Nazi swastikas. I thought he was just being dumb but no, he was pretty much pro-Nazi when I tried talking to him about it. Yeah...

Sorry, burntheships.

I was jumping on, and trying to kill, one of the other tentacles.

I agree that the common core stuff is an outrage. But I fear that it is a battle already lost. We may be able to stop it, but it will come back next year and we won't even hear about it. It is merely a symptom of a much larger disease.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't fight these type of things whenever we find them. They all need to be dragged into the light of day for all to see. What I'm saying is that we cannot allow ourselves to be so consumed by the battle that we fail to consider the war that is going on around us.

Originally posted by WhiteAlice
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

The problem is that their assignment was to write a persuasive essay. According to my profs in college, I was a very good writer. One of the writing classes that I took was on persuasive writing. Persuasive writing is exactly what it is named--it's a piece written to persuade the reader to adopt a specific position using a very deliberate methodology that has shown to be effective in doing just that. To illustrate, one of my classmates was a linebacker for my uni's football team and I wrote mine on the subject of anti-slaughterhouses. After class, he told me that, for the first time ever, he felt terrible that he ate probably 10 cheeseburgers everyday (from McDonald's--should've reassured him that that wasn't meat lol) and that he was going to become a vegetarian because of what I wrote. Imagine his look of shock when I told him that I wasn't a vegetarian and that I was going to grab a burger. Probably mean but I wanted him to understand that he just got mentally "owned" so that next time he wouldn't be so quick to adopt the ideas from a single piece of writing. And for the record, I don't use persuasive writing ever. I find it rather unethical. It is absolutely propaganda formation and, as much as people don't like to think about it, it can be very effective.

Very insightful post, especially the aspect of the persuasive writing essay.

I would think that first, the children would have needed to understand the
techniques, otherwise it is too much of a confusion for them, especially the
grade school age, if they were even taught the technique at all....

Originally posted by Doc Gator
reply to post by FraternitasSaturni

 

Agreed with the UN holiday thing. I think it becomes difficult (and uncomfortable) when you start talking about degrees of evil. But if we are going to rank them, I agree that Stalin was "more evil" than Hitler. But Mao spanked them both.

Point taken sir.

Not sure why this was posted in "Breaking News", but there is already a thread about this topic here:

Another School. Another Teacher. This time it's Nazi's. I hate nazi's

reply to post by Doc Gator


Its ok, I understand. I would quote your whole post, as you have clarified very well
your thoughts and I certainly agree....the battle about the curriculum is lost.

Its now law, thanks to the stimulus package...it was snuck in behind the scenes
so to speak on the heels of the 2008 crash.

However, most parents are very disturbed to learn their children are being tracked,
not just grade wise either....and some may not care.