What would you do: advice sought on a controversial topic

reply to post by tetra50

No need to compile a list.

I meant gauging each case on an individual basis which means that, even if there is proof of legit cases out there, I will not automatically believe some faceless internet account holder telling me that federal agents are following them around 24/7.

Lasers [edit] A USAF Boeing YAL-1 airborne laser See also: Electromagnetic weapon Lasers are often used for sighting, ranging and targeting for guns; but the laser beam is not the source of the weapon's firepower. Laser weapons usually generate brief high-energy pulses. A one megajoule laser pulse delivers roughly the same energy as 200 grams of high explosive, and has the same basic effect on a target. The primary damage mechanism is mechanical shear, caused by reaction when the surface of the target is explosively evaporated.[citation needed] Most existing weaponized lasers are gas dynamic lasers. Fuel, or a powerful turbine, pushes the lasing media through a circuit or series of orifices. The high-pressures and heating cause the medium to form a plasma and lase. A major difficulty with these systems is preserving the high-precision mirrors and windows of the laser resonating cavity. Most systems use a low-powered "oscillator" laser to generate a coherent wave, and then amplify it. Some experimental laser amplifiers do not use windows or mirrors, but have open orifices, which cannot be destroyed by high energies.[citation needed] Some lasers are used as non-lethal weapons, such as dazzlers which are designed to temporarily blind or distract people or sensors. Electrolaser [edit] Main article: Electrolaser An electrolaser lets blooming occur, and then sends a powerful electric current down the conducting ionized track of plasma so formed, somewhat like lightning. It functions as a giant high energy long-distance version of the Taser or stun gun. Radio frequency [edit] High-energy radio-frequency weapons (HERF) working on the same principles as microwave ovens, have also shown potential. On January 25, 2007, the US Army unveiled a device mountable on a small armored vehicle (Humvee). It resembles a planar array. It can make people feel as if the skin temperature is around 130 °F (54 °C) from around 500 yards (460 m) away. Full scale production of such a weapon was not expected until at least 2010.[citation needed] It is probably most usefully deployed as an Active Denial System. Microwaves [edit] Microwave guns powerful enough to injure humans are possible: Active Denial System is a millimeter wave source that heats the water in the target's skin and thus causes incapacitating pain. It is being used by the U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory and Raytheon for riot-control duty. Though intended to cause severe pain while leaving no lasting damage, some concern has been voiced as to whether the system could cause irreversible damage to the eyes. There has yet to be testing for long-term side effects of exposure to the microwave beam. It can also destroy unshielded electronics: see TEMPEST (research into unintended electronic release of information).[6] The device comes in various sizes including attached to a humvee. Vigilant Eagle is an airport defense system that directs high-frequency microwaves towards any projectile that is fired at an aircraft.[7] The system consists of a missile–detecting and tracking subsystem (MDT), a command and control system, and a scanning array. The MDT is a fixed grid of passive infrared (IR) cameras. The command and control system determines the missile launch point. The scanning array projects microwaves that disrupt the surface-to-air missile's guidance system, deflecting it from the aircraft.[8] Bofors HPM Blackout is a high-powered microwave weapon system which is stated to be able to destroy at distance a wide variety of commercial off-the-shelf (COTS) electronic equipment. It is stated to be not lethal to humans.[9][10][11] Pulsed Energy Projectile [edit] Main article: Pulsed Energy Projectile Pulsed Energy Projectile or PEP systems emit an infrared laser pulse which creates rapidly expanding plasma at the target. The resulting sound, shock and electromagnetic waves stun the target and cause pain and temporary paralysis. The weapon is under development and is intended as a non-lethal weapon in crowd control. Examples [edit] Made by Northrop Grumman: On March 18, 2009 Northrop Grumman announced that its engineers in Redondo Beach had successfully built and tested an electric laser capable of producing a 100-kilowatt ray of light, powerful enough to destroy cruise missiles, artillery, rockets and mortar rounds.[12] An electric laser is theoretically capable, according to Brian Strickland, manager for the United States Army's Joint High Power Solid State Laser program, of being mounted in an aircraft, ship, or vehicle because it requires much less space for its supporting equipment than a chemical laser.[13] On April 6, 2011, the U.S. Navy successfully tested a laser gun, manufactured by Northrop Grumman, that was mounted on the former USS Paul Foster, which is currently used as the navy's test ship. When engaged during the test that occurred off the coast of Central California in the Pacific Ocean test range, the laser gun was documented as having "a destructive effect on a high-speed cruising target," said Chief of Naval Research Admiral Nevin Carr.[14] While classified, the range of the laser gun is attributed to miles, not yards. Northrop Grumman has announced the availability of a high-energy solid-state laser weapon system that they call FIRESTRIKE, introduced on 13 November 2008. The system is modular, using 15 kW modules that can be combined to provide various levels of power. On 19 July 2010 an anti-aircraft laser described as the Laser Close-In Weapon System was unveiled at the Farnborough Airshow.[15] The Zeus laser weapon is the first laser and the first energy weapon of any type to be used on a battlefield. It is used for neutralizing mines and unexploded ordnance. Laser Area Defense System. The Mid-Infrared Advanced Chemical Laser (MIRACL) is an experimental U.S. Navy deuterium fluoride laser and was tested against an Air Force satellite in 1997. In 2011, the U.S. Navy began to test the Maritime Laser Demonstrator (MLD), a laser for use aboard its warships.[16][17] In 2013 the U.S. began field testing a directed energy weapon it calls the Laser Weapon System.[18] Personnel Halting and Stimulation Response, or PHaSR, is a non-lethal hand-held weapon developed by the United States Air Force [19] Its purpose is to "dazzle" or stun a target. It was developed by Air Force's Directed Energy Directorate. Tactical High Energy Laser (THEL) is a weaponized deuterium fluoride laser developed in a joint research project by Israel and the U.S. It is designed to shoot down aircraft and missiles. See also National missile defense. The U.S. Air Force's Airborne Laser, or Advanced Tactical Laser, is a plan to mount a CO2 gas laser or COIL chemical laser on a modified Boeing 747 to shoot down missiles.[20][21] Portable Efficient Laser Testbed (PELT)[22] Laser AirCraft CounterMeasures (ACCM) Boeing’s Airborne Laser, a chemical laser which has been mounted in a 747 jet, is reported to be able to destroy incoming missiles by heating and warping the thin pressurized skins typical of such missiles.[23] See also Electrolaser#Examples of electrolasers. Masers [edit] Main article: Maser A hydrogen radio frequency discharge, the first element inside a hydrogen maser. A maser is a device that produces coherent electromagnetic waves through amplification by stimulated emission. Historically, “maser” derives from the original, upper-case acronym MASER, which stands for "Microwave Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation". The lower-case usage arose from technological development having rendered the original denotation imprecise, because contemporary masers emit EM waves (microwave and radio frequencies) across a broader band of the electromagnetic spectrum; thus, the physicist Charles H. Townes’s suggested usage of “molecular” replacing “microwave”, for contemporary linguistic accuracy.[24] In 1957, when the optical coherent oscillator was first developed, it was denominated optical maser, but usually called laser (Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation), the acronym Gordon Gould established in 1957.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by tetra50

 

No need to compile a list.

I meant gauging each case on an individual basis which means that, even if there is proof of legit cases out there, I will not automatically believe some faceless internet account holder telling me that federal agents are following them around 24/7.

I have never disagreed with this, and said this ad nauseum: That it always must be vetted on a case by case basis. And yet, we continually engage in this way, your doubt, my insistence. The fact is the tech exists, is used, and is used not only in military applications, but practiced and perfected on an unsuspecting civilian population. A while back, I promised such a list, and I try to do what I say I will do, so therefore, the list, though hardly comprehensive. And my point is, though you seem to feel that this is not the proper place to address such issues, then where is? This is what sites like this are for, whether you judge that every Tom,Dick and Harry can claim to be a victim on such a site, the fact still remains that victims of this do in fact exist, and those victims should have a place to go not only for the purpose of knowing they are not alone, so they don't take to the streets with guns, so that they will not feel alone, alienated and resort to more violent measures, and perhaps even find a way to deal with or fight the ordeal they are living with. It is in this spirit I wrote this thread and sought to provide information for people dealing with it. And then, as Bluesma suggested some pages back, try to find the appropriate place and people to reveal their struggle to and find help. Surely, this cannot be anything but helpful, no matter whether you feel they are all suffering from the same ordeal, or schizophrenia, or some other mental instability. And therefore, the list is instrumental in separating the wheat from the chaff, so to speak....

I still do not understand when we have agreed on this point why we come to blows, continually, over each little point, and your obvious response is always negative and these foks are not to be believed.
Regardless, some pages back, I said that I would provide some fact based lists about information regarding this tech, and so this is now what I will attempt to do, whether in response to your continual baiting of me, or just because it was something I said I would do.

I apologize if this was already mentioned, but tetra you have a lot more patience than I do, but I wanted to add something if you dont mind.

Army Yanks ‘Voice-To-Skull Devices’ Site

The Army’s very strange webpage on "Voice-to-Skull" weapons has been removed. It was strange it was there, and it’s even stranger it’s gone. If you Google it, you’ll see the entry for "Voice-to-Skull device," but, if you click on the website, the link is dead.

The entry, still available on the Federation of American Scientists‘ website reads:

Nonlethal weapon which includes (1) a neuro-electromagnetic device which uses microwave transmission of sound into the skull of persons or animals by way of pulse-modulated microwave radiation; and (2) a silent sound device which can transmit sound into the skull of person or animals. NOTE: The sound modulation may be voice or audio subliminal messages. One application of V2K is use as an electronic scarecrow to frighten birds in the vicinity of airports.

The U.K.-based group Christians Against Mental Slavery first noted the change (they also have a permanent screenshot of the page). A representative of the group tells me they contacted the Webmaster, who would only tell them the entry was "permanently removed."

www.wired.com...


voicetoskull.com...


Patent For Microwave
Voice-To-Skull Technology

United States Patent 4,877,027 Brunkan October 31, 1989

Hearing System

Abstract

Sound is induced in the head of a person by radiating the head with microwaves in the range of 100 megahertz to 10,000 megahertz that are modulated with a particular waveform. The waveform consists of frequency modulated bursts. Each burst is made up of ten to twenty uniformly spaced pulses grouped tightly together. The burst width is between 500 nanoseconds and 100 microseconds. The pulse width is in the range of 10 nanoseconds to 1 microsecond. The bursts are frequency modulated by the audio input to create the sensation of hearing in the person whose head is irradiated.

rense.com...


voice to skull devices

Definition/Scope:
Nonlethal weapon which includes (1) a neuro-electromagnetic device which uses microwave transmission of sound into the skull of persons or animals by way of pulse-modulated microwave radiation; and (2) a silent sound device which can transmit sound into the skull of person or animals. NOTE: The sound modulation may be voice or audio subliminal messages. One application of V2K is use as an electronic scarecrow to frighten birds in the vicinity of airports.

www.fas.org...


Peace, NRE.

reply to post by tetra50

Actually I mearly pointed out that the documents you posted were not the proof that you claimed they were. You then steered the conversation to my "unacceptance" and what my purpose here was so, I felt the need to bring up, once again, what we had already agreed upon.

You talk about seperating the wheat from the chaff but get defensive when I say "that looks like chaff".

Unlawful Non-Consensual Weapons Testing on Civilians and Military Personnel Must Stop LINK

*PLEASE SCROLL DOWN TO READ: Updates, and Comments, select 'More' at the bottom of the page to view additional comments. This Petition Affects Our Planet and All That Lives In It. Millions of citizens are now coming forth with complaints of non-consensual human experimentation and torture testing by directed exposure to war weapons, biological chemicals and more resulting in serious health damage and even death; caused by the various war technologies developed for war, now being used for military PEACETIME training across our country. This included testing and evaluation by corporations, researcher and other agencies without consent. These acts against human beings are the results of corporate greed and nothing else. We are not ar war yet development, training and testing with the use of these technologies continues every day and millions of citizens (men, woman and children) are being harmed. Petitioning our President of the United States of America, our Senate, our House of Representatives (Congress), and 20 others. Click the 'box' to the left of the statement, 'Petitioning 'The President of the United States' to view all names petitioned as well as your States Leaders. As you sign this petition your 'states leaders' will be included, and sent your petition letter. First...you may sign this petition and opt ‘not to display’ your signature publically by 'un-checking' the red box not to 'display your signature'. However you chose to sign this petition; display of signature and comments, or not - I say 'Thank You'. Second; Before reading the following letter, I would like for you all to hear this recent interview with Dr. Barrie Tower: 'Dr Barrie Towers Talks with Victims of Non-Consensual Microwave and EMF Experimentation and Testing'. What was most surprising was that the greater of those targeted were listed as politicians for blackmail, our police, our fire departments and our military personnel on the war fields in the use of harmful EMF technology without their knowledge, and of course this goes without saying the MILLIONS of citizens defined as 'unwitting U.S. Persons' by our DOD/DOJ and 'unwitting citizens' abroad; millions used non-consensually for the testing, evaluation and military training of weapons and biological/chemical weapons designed for war. The interview with Dr. Trower, provided extremely important and damaging information regarding the continued harmful placement of these 'EMF towers' in and around our communities that are affecting our health and causing injuries as; high levels of increased cancers, high blood pressure, (in children) learning disorders, nervous system disorders, and other injuries and deaths. Harmful Microwave and EMF transmissions that are affecting our weather, our birds and our plant life (food), as well. Dr. Trower, as a former creator of these technologies discusses how these technologies can be reduced and/or stopped as government funded contractors continue to recklessly develop and test these technologies 'non-consensually' on humans; chemical-trails, satellites, drones, cell/EMF towers, Emergency Management Systems and more...the non-consensual human experimentation of needless harmful microwave energies and weapons, electromagnetic frequencies and needless dangerous technologies damaging our health everyday. 'Barrie Trower Talks with Victims of Non-Consensual Microwave and EMF Experimentation and Testing' www.youtube.com... These are the ill-effects to our health and 'triggers' within our homes that Dr. Trower refers to that have now been created, or hidden from the public due to the levels of (EMF) Electromagnetic Frequencies and Microwave Energies now being used all around us. Used in such systems as the Emergency Management Systems, (affecting the health of police, fire and emergency workers), surveillance aircrafts, drones, military hovercrafts (in their use of through-the-wall technologies removing all consumer privacy in your own home) and community cell towers that surround our schools and homes. Now in our own homes, the replacement of water meters with smart-meters that are producing dangerous levels of EMF in our homes as well. And all due to the positioning of those (EMF) cell towers around our communities, all connecting and producing dangerous levels of radiation and microwave energies, and more. The results of the use of EMF increasingly all around us and in our Schools is causing cancers, attention deficit disorders and behavioral problems, and damage our children’s reproductive organs (female and male). Here are some of the 'triggers' now in our own homes. · Chemicals 26%, including foods, moulds (industry fungi), perfumes, etc. - One study in California found 16% of respondents were chemically sensitive. 15% of these also were electrically sensitive. · Computers 42% · Electrical appliances 42% · Fluorescent lighting 42%, including the energy efficient CFL bulbs · Microwave ovens 32% · Power lines 40% · Radio/TV transmitters 48% · Telecommunications masts 60% · Wi-Fi (now being placed in every school, with cell towers being placed on school grounds) · Televisions 46% or higher if you add WiFi to your television set · Electronic signature pads (such as those used by parcel delivery services, and by staff in supermarkets) 20% · Smart Meters (now being placed in our homes to replace existing meters) 46% Electrical Hypersensitivity Illness in humans is increasing due to the abuses of these agencies, researchers, and contractors, and the exposure of our citizens to these technologies as human lab-rats as they fly over our communities and spray our air with chemicals, or contractually engage our communities into the importance of the use of such items as dangerous 'high efficient CFL bulbs' and 'smart-meters' to replace electrical meters in our own homes, or run underground dangerous EMF lines to replace the traditional power lines. Our government had better awaken because the RICH, have a greater use of wireless devices than the middle-class and the poor and we ALL, ‘BILLIONS’ of citizens around the world are experiencing the same injuries, torture and non-consensual experimentation by these corporations and agencies. For decades our government contractor base and government agencies have developed war weapons of mass destruction along with other war chemical and microwave technologies; what our United States citizens are not aware of is that our own Senate, Secret Committees and Congress have authorized the testing and evaluation of these weapons on who they define as 'unwitting' civilians and military personnel, and testing is increasing. Testing and evaluation on civilians across this country and abroad; in our air as chemical trails or ‘chem-trails’, in our water and on our bodies with the use of satellites and drones, and is dangerously and carelessly increasing. Technology that alters a humans behavior, mind, body and blood; needless development, testing and evaluation for nothing other than greed… the continued funding by our Senate in the trillions. Now 75 Senators have voted to allow the development and testing of 30,000 war Drones over our U.S. skies. What our Senate has not read is the required testing, and recertification as a required number of designated ‘target civilian hits’ for those who will operate these drones. This also included the ongoing recertification of each operator of the 30,000 additional Drones over our skies. www.washingtontimes.com... If any citizen would read any Senate Appropriations Budget to the military, or any government agency, including the thousands of primary government (over 3100) contractors, and thousands of government sub-contractors (over 5000 with no oversight) you will find that our cities, our United States regions and countries abroad are identified as targets for testing of these weapons. New Public Hearings on Legislation to Ban Chemtrails in Long IslandNew York and across our country: www.youtube.com... Former FBI Chief, Ted L. Gunderson, makes a statement regarding the chemtrail "death dumps"; otherwise know as air crap, on January 12, 2011. Ted says the following: "The death dumps, otherwise known as chemical trails, are being dropped and sprayed throughout the United States and England, Scotland. www.youtube.com... News Reports on the content of Chem-trails and the danger to our health. Only Public Outcry will stop this. www.youtube.com... Most civilians and military personnel have no idea that most illnesses that are occurring is the result of the testing of these biological, chemical, lethal, direct energies and electromagnetic pulse weapons via satellites, drones and contractor aircrafts, and it includes chemicals in our water and on our military bases. Please also consider signing this linked petition for those in our military injured by illegal non-consensual testing of chemicals in their drinking water. Health Care Now for Military Families Poisoned at Camp Lejeune www.change.org...# As described in The Washington Post article entitled ‘A Top Secret America’ July 2010, over 3100 primary government contractors are earning as little as ONE MILLION per year, to as much as 750 BILLION per year annually since 9/11; and all developing weapons of mass destruction that will never be used while our country suffers with unemployment, homelessness, foreclosures, poor schools, and budget cuts that affect the lives of our seniors. What most civilians are not aware of is that BILLIONS are being poured into DOD Homeland Fusion Centers who are organizing local police, and neighborhood watch groups in the targeting of innocent civilians as ‘See Something – Say Something’; which is placing millions of our neighbors on what are now defined as ‘unwitting target’ lists which also places those innocent families and/or individuals, on the DOD (Department of Defense) listed as ‘unwitting civilians or military personnel’ subjects for non-consensual human testing of war weapons per their DOD Directive 5240.1-R. America must awaken to what is happening to EVERYONE, not just those who are targeted by ‘See Something – Say Something’, all citizens are being non-consensually experimented on, as more and more chemical trails are being sprayed into our air and negatively affecting our health, weather, water, birds and the fish that we eat. This goes without saying the number of Satellites and Drones being tested and evaluated on human targets; or the number of criminals cells that are now created within neighborhood watch groups (with no over-sight) and are heading crime rings. ACLU Article: 'Who's Spying (or targeting) in Your Neighborhood?' www.aclu.org... Our ,President, Senate and House of Representatives must stop this genocide now and decades old practice of injuring innocent American citizens for the sake of the next developed (WMD) ‘Weapon of Mass Destruction’ that will never be used, other than as tested on its own 'unwitting' citizens. Our Senate must start reading the many Appropriations Bills and war weapons technology ‘Justifications’ that they continue to sign. 2012: DOD Directive 5240.1-R Human Testing on U.S. Persons atsdio.defense.gov... PROCEDURE 13. EXPERIMENTATION ON HUMAN SUBJECTS FOR INTELLIGENCE PURPOSES C13.1. APPLICABILITY This procedure applies to experimentation on human subjects if such experimentation is conducted by or on behalf of a DoD intelligence component. This procedure does not apply to experimentation on animal subjects. C13.2. EXPLANATION OF UNDEFINED TERMS C13.2.1. Experimentation in this context means any research or testing activity involving human subjects (U.S. Persons) that may expose such subjects to the possibility of permanent or temporary injury (including physical or psychological damage and damage to the reputation of such persons) beyond the risks of injury to which such subjects are ordinarily exposed in their daily lives, ‘unwitting’ U.S. person, and those targeted for surveillance, and those granting consent. (Who are they kidding here, when is psychological and physical damage a part of anyone's normal day; only if your brain is hit by a direct energy or electromagnetic pulse weapon during satellite or drone testing would it be, as documented for 'human targeting' as 'U.S. Persons' of these United States of America. These are illegal criminal acts against ’unwitting’ humans who die mysteriously of 'silent' injuries everyday.) C13.2.2. Experimentation is conducted on behalf of a DoD intelligence component if it is conducted under contract to that component or to another DoD Component for the benefit of the intelligence component or at the request of such a component regardless of the existence of a contractual relationship. (Regardless of the existence of a contractual relationship...so I can become a contractor and use this Directive to assault whomever I wan; invade your privacy by partnering with a local Fusion Center (who job is to process personal and financial data about every U.S. person and make available to those who partner with their facility) to take your business, or to access the activities that occur within the privacy of your home...just because I can???) C13.2.3. Human subjects in this context includes any person whether or not such person is a United States person. www.fas.org... cryptome.org... (scroll down the page, they continue to edit this directive since release in April) projects.washingtonpost.com... - 'The Washington Post - A Top Secret America' - Detailing the over 3100 government contractors formed Post 9/11 'A War on Terror'. What terror? We are not at war. Search on the top earnings and developed technologies. projects.washingtonpost.com... - The Washington Post; Monitoring America' - Where Fusion centers admit to monitoring and surveillance of millions of innocent citizens who have NEVER committed any crimes. www.usatoday.com... - 30,000 new Drones to be developed and tested. FOIA -ACLU document details that target selection includes humans, children, ball-fields, schools and more. Where are we living? This is a Planet of Humans, not animals. Latest interview with Julianne McKinney: www.liveleak.com... This letters documents a great concern of DOD Directive 5240.1-R and abuse by government contractors and government agencies. A concern expressed by a former Army Intelligence Officer, Julianne McKinney as this letter was written to former President Clinton 1994. President Clinton later outlawed non-consensual human experimentation yet, decades later non-consensual human testing continues. Julianne McKinney: Letter to President Clinton and His Reply Association of National Security Alumni Electronic Surveillance Project P.O. Box 13625 Silver Spring, MD 20911-3625 (301) 608-0143 [no longer in service] December 31, 1994 The Honorable William J. Clinton The White House Washington, D.C. 20500 Dear President Clinton: I appreciated your prompt and courteous response to my letter dated November 15, 1994. Copies of these letters are attached for your immediate reference. While I did indeed appreciate your letter, I am concerned that your National Security Council staff appears to have overlooked two major points raised in my letter to Dr. Lamb; viz., concerning the role of (clearly-unmonitored) major defense contractors in the testing and development of these directed-energy systems; and the unresolved plight of U.S. citizens who are still on the receiving end of this experimentation. Dr. Lamb has chosen not to reply to my letter. Your assistance in resolving these issues would be most gratefully appreciated. As to DoD's claims regarding their lack of involvement in involuntary human experimentation, you might want to read DoD Directive 5240. l-R ("Procedures Governing the Activities of DoD Intelligence Components that Affect United States Persons"). According to this regulation, persons who qualify as "targets of surveillance" become fair game for the testing of all forms of communications and "non-communications" frequencies. Radar is identified in this regulation as a "non-communications" frequency. (Radar is also now being touted as a "non-lethal" asset.) Also according to this regulation, signals testing and experimentation in "targets of surveillance" may involve the joint participation of the Central Intelligence Agency. Your Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) has obligingly furnished DoD and other U.S. Intelligence agencies a rubber-stamp authorization to test these technologies on more than 6,500 alleged "spies" in this country between 1979 and 1991, alone. God only knows how many additional "spies" have been added to the list since 1991. The FISC is accountable to no one. FISC surveillance authorizations serve merely to legitimize involuntary human experimentation now ongoing in this country. Rogue DoD contractors, I might add, are exercising the luxury of not having to concern themselves with these FISC formalities. DoD has informed your National Security Council staff that it "does not conduct any human testing on unwitting or involuntary subjects" (emphasis mine). The involuntary human experimentees referenced in my letter to Dr. Lamb are fully "witting" - a situation compelled by the nature of the experimentation, itself. By having become "witting" (if helpless to do anything about it), these experimentees apparently meet one of DoD"s two criteria for continued experimentation; namely, that either they be "witting" or that they be "voluntary." DoD's response to your National Security Council staff embodies duplicitousness. As a matter of interest, I arrived home after spending Christmas with my family, not only to find that your letter had arrived, but, also, to find that the rubber insulation on one of my lamp cords had been deliberately shaved down during my absence for purposes of "inadvertent" ignition. The spark which "inadvertently" leaped out of the exposed copper wires last night was only inches from the fringe on my bedspread. This is only about the tenth such (plausibly-deniable) attempt on my life since this Project commenced in mid-1992. It would appear, so far, that I have a choice of being run off of the road at a high speed, of being blown up by a gas stove, of being electrocuted or, now, of being fried in an "inadvertently"-ignited inferno. I am bringing this to your attention because these recurrent attempts would appear to belie the officially-benign position taken by the Department of Defense regarding involuntary human experimentation. Indeed, I am being given the distinct impression that U.S. citizens who push for investigations into these experiments face a future on a morgue slab. This is not my idea of how a democracy should operate. Perhaps I am mistaken. I frankly do not relish the thought of being assassinated for pursuing a subject which this government would obviously prefer not be discussed. I do not intend to stop, regardless. As stated in my previous letter to you, you have made a fine beginning where potential revamping of our National Security Agenda might be concerned. Please do not draw the line, so to speak, where non-ionizing radiation is concerned. Lives of U.S. citizens are being destroyed because of these experiments. Sincerely, /Original Signed/ JULIANNE MCKINNEY Director, Electronic Surveillance Project Encls THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON December 20, 1994 Ms. Julianne McKinney Director, Electronic Surveillance Project Association of National Security Alumni Post Office Box 13625 Silver Spring, Maryland 20911-3625 Dear Julianne: I appreciate your taking the time to write and I want to thank you for the material you enclosed. I have had the National Security Council staff look into your account of involuntary human experimentation by the Department of Defense with regard to "non-lethal" weapons and surveillance systems. They have reported back to me that there is no involvement of the Defense Department in involuntary human experimentation with regard to those systems. In fact, the Defense Department does not conduct any human testing on unwitting or involuntary subjects. I appreciate your interest and your concern about our national security. I assure you that these issues will continue to be addressed. Sincerely, [signature:] Bill Clinton President Clinton's video apology for the Non-Consenual Human Radiation Experiments on October 3, 1995 www.youtube.com... In 1997,then U.S. Senator John Glenn attempted to outlaw all Non-Consensual Human Experimentation (including classified research). In introducing S.193 (105th Congress), the proposed "Human Research Subject Protections Act of 1997", Senator Glenn: spoke of "some serious gaps in our legal system" [Congressional Record, Jan. 22, 1997, p. S645]; and stated that "Under current rule, and executive order, it is possible to waive informed consent and IRB [institutional review board] review for [U.S.] classified [human] research." [p. S648]. Although S.193 was not passed and expired, 4 of its 5 co-Sponsors, Senators Kennedy, Lieberman, Inouye, and Akaka, are still in the U.S. Senate. Legislation to solve this problem must be Re-Introduced! With President Clinton's Policy Change delayed, and no protective laws yet made, innocent citizens are being harmed, their most basic rights violated! Links to the directive and supporting documents: atsdio.defense.gov... www.dtic.mil... December 1982 original 'directive' version: www.fas.org... cryptome.org... (scroll down the page) DOD 4240 1-R: 1. Electronic surveillance is "directed against a United States person" when the surveillance is intentionally targeted against or designed to intercept the communications of that person. C. PROCEDURES A DoD intelligence component may use technical surveillance countermeasures that involve the incidental acquisition of the nonpublic communications of United States persons without their consent, provided: 1. The use of such countermeasures has been authorized or consented to by the official in charge of the facility, organization, or installation where the countermeasures are to be undertaken; 2. The use of such countermeasures is limited in extent and duration to that necessary to determine the existence and capability of such equipment; and PART 5: DEVELOPING, TESTING, AND CALIBRATION OF ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT (on humans) A. APPLICABILITY This part of Procedure 5 applies to developing, testing, or calibrating electronic equipment that can intercept or process communications and non-communications signals. It also includes research and development that needs electronic communications as a signal source. B. PROCEDURES 1. Signals authorized for use. a. The following may be used without restriction: (1) Laboratory-generated signals. (2) Communications signals with the consent of the communicator. (3) Communications in the commercial or public service broadcast bands. (4) Communications transmitted between terminals located outside of the United States not used by any known United States person. (5) Non-communications signals (including telemetry, and radar). b. Communications subject to lawful electronic surveillance under the provisions of Parts 1, 2, or 3 of this procedure may be used subject to the minimization procedures applicable to such surveillance. c. Any of the following may be used subject to the restrictions of subsection B.2., below. (1) Communications over official government communications circuits with consent from an appropriate official of the controlling agency. (2) Communications in the citizens and amateur-radio bands. d. Other signals may be used only when it is determined that it is not practical to use the signals described above and it is not reasonable to obtain the consent of persons incidentally subjected to the surveillance. The restrictions of subsection B.2., below, will apply in such cases. Our President, Senate and House of Representatives (Congress) is responsible for the legislation and funding that is injuring the health of millions of citizens of this country and it must stop. Such Directives as the Department of Defense directive 5240.1-R must be abolished and those testing these chemicals and war weapons on civilians must be charged with criminal offenses. You must provide valid oversight as well of these agencies and contractors to stop these criminals against humanity. We can no longer be a nation of sickness, homelessness and high levels of unemployment with one of 3100 government contractors (per The Washington Post) can earn annually over 750 Billion per year while others go without food or healthcare. Please sign this petition and send a message to our government that WE ARE NOT AT WAR and UNTOLD TRILLIONS spent on (WMD) Weapons of Mass Destruction have no need when they are being tested and evaluated on all citizens of these United States and abroad. To: The President of the United States The U.S. Senate The U.S. House of Representatives Rep. Michael Turner, OH-10 Rep. Randy Weber, TX-14 Sen. Sherrod Brown, OH Sen. Pat Roberts, KS Sen. Robert Portman, OH Sen. Al Franken, MN Sen. Maria Cantwell, WA Sen. Susan Collins, ME Sen. Rand Paul, KY Rep. William Keating, MA-09 Sen. Carl Levin, MI Sen. Tom Coburn, OK Sen. Richard Durbin, IL Rep. Gloria Negrete McLeod, CA-35 Rep. John Lewis, GA-05 Rep. Elijah Cummings, MD-07 Sen. Marco Rubio, FL Sen. Mark Udall, CO Sen. Richard Burr, NC President of the United States, Barack Obama, U.S. Senate and House of Representatives, The President of the United States, the U.S. Senate, and House of Representatives Anthony Romaro, Executive Director of The ACLU Susan N. Herman, President of the ACLU World Organisation Against Torture, OMCT International Secretariat World Organisation Against Torture, OMCT Europe I just signed and supported the following petition addressed to: The President of the United States, the U.S. Senate, the House of Representatives, and the ACLU 'Stop the non-consensual testing, evaluation and training of war weapons and technology on civilians and military personnel.' ---------------- Before reading the following letter, I would like for you all to hear this recent interview... Read More Recent signatures Amy Weiss CHAPEL HILL, NC 16h

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by tetra50

 

Actually I mearly pointed out that the documents you posted were not the proof that you claimed they were. You then steered the conversation to my "unacceptance" and what my purpose here was so, I felt the need to bring up, once again, what we had already agreed upon.

You talk about seperating the wheat from the chaff but get defensive when I say "that looks like chaff".

Because of repeated non sequitoirs in your logic, where what you present as 'fact' does not then follow as a locial conclusion. You have repeated assertions off the top of your head, blanket generalizations with nothing but your own biased arguments, unsourced, for the most part, I might add, and continue on in the same vein, using the same techniques and employing the same dynamics to a decidedly fluid situation, just alone evidenced by the fact of the extremely fast evolution of technology, itself.

to those finding anything informative about what I have posted, thus far, some I admit, not of the best sources, there is much much information to provide; However, I am tired and will return tomorrow with more.

Thanks for reading.
Tetra50

reply to post by tetra50


What does any of that have to do with the fact that the document you posted was nothing more than a form filled out by a complainant, writing in whatever they wanted and a "letter" from a politician, accepted by the court as SOP?

You then go on to tell me that the courts are manipulated. So which is it, are the courts controlled or are court documents proof? You can't have things both ways.

Seems to me that the non sequitoir here is:

All targeted individuals are paranoid
Joe is paranoid
Joe is a TI

I have already said that if Joe isn't a TI than you really are not helping him by feeding his delusion but thinking back on this whole thread, I don't really see any help for him even if he is. That was the point of the thread and, other than you posting links to the tech, others claiming similar experiences and me giving you a hard time, there really hasn't been anything in regards to countering any of these actions and we're up to page 17.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by tetra50

 

What does any of that have to do with the fact that the document you posted was nothing more than a form filled out by a complainant, writing in whatever they wanted and a "letter" from a politician, accepted by the court as SOP.

You then go on to tell me that the courts are manipulated. So which is it, are the courts controlled or are court documents proof? You can't have things both ways.

Seems to me that the non sequitoir here is you saying:

All targeted individuals hear voices (you can substitute any other manifestation of the phenomenon)
Joe hears voices (or whatever)
Joe is a TI

I have already said that if Joe isn't a TI than you really are not helping him by feeding his delusion but thinking back on this whole thread, I don't really see any help for him even if he is. That was the point of the thread and, other than you posting links to the tech and others claiming the same, there really hasn't been anything in regards to countering any of these actions and we're up to page 17.

edit on 10-5-2013 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

What does any of that have to do with the fact that the document you posted was nothing more than a form filled out by a complainant, writing in whatever they wanted and a "letter" from a politician, accepted by the court as SOP.

To some degree, it validated and got something recognized for one person. But you see, I've posted source after source after source....you are picking one. Not to mention, I have said from the outset, the the TI phenomenon do not always accompany the electronic/thought propogation, marionette/puppet phenomenon. In my mind, they are separate things, not always found in the presence of the other. From the ouset of the OP you have steadfastly ignored that, and ran with it, no matter what I tried logically to appeal to you. You have deliberately steered this OP in that drection to control not only the perception of the thread, its sources, but it;s communicative purpose. You even carried that over into another thread linking the two for the puruposes of steering it in that direction, because of the inherent, built in feature of parranoia to gang stalking......


I feel quite certain that if someone to read, word for word, the etiology of how this developed and displayed a definitive bias and repeated attack by linking things that were epressely addressed in the OP to not let one situation color another, displaying an agenda all along the way.

I am through with this, although I have said this many times. Really, I have nothing further to add to communicate with you. You, also by refusing to be anything but negative, and thereby further suppresion of their expiences will do abolutely nothing to help Joe who is just hearing voices. At least with something of an honest discussion about it, perhpas we can help "Joe" determine just which kind of help he needs, after all. Your way just shuts people up and down, so no help is available to them whatsoever, no matter which help is needed. So they sit and suffer.

You then go on to tell me that the courts are manipulated. So which is it, are the courts controlled or are court documents proof? You can't have things both ways.

reply to post by tetra50


And this last thing is so nonsensical it borders, no, is, ridiculous. No it absolutely does not have to be one way or another. This is the kind of lack of critical thinking we are suffering from today: The removal of any layers of complexity, finer distinctions, so that there is nothing left other than the duality: the two choices. This is the biggest fallacy of all in modern thinking, or lack thereof. Yes, many things are both ways, and even more layered than that on a "case by case basis," dependant upon myriad factors. :case by case basis is your terminology, I believe. This a complete and of utter fallacy that totally disregards thecomplexity of the world you inhabit today where Occam's Razor has become just a justification of the path of least resistance.

Originally posted by tetra50
To some degree, it validated and got something recognized for one person. But you see, I've posted source after source after source....you are picking one.

I'm pointing out the error in your description of it.

You, also by refusing to be anything but negative, and thereby further suppresion of their expiences will do abolutely nothing to help Joe who is just hearing voices.

Not true if he realizes that he needs to seek help other than internet CTs.

At least with something of an honest discussion about it, perhpas we can help "Joe" determine just which kind of help he needs, after all.

If you want to have an honest discussion and help "Joe" determine what kind of help he needs, you can't suspend disbelief. That has been the problem I have had with the OP. You set up the non sequitoir from the start.

As for the court thing, what is ridiculous is you ranting about the courts being controlled after posting "court documents" as proof.

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
I apologize if this was already mentioned, but tetra you have a lot more patience than I do, but I wanted to add something if you dont mind.

Army Yanks ‘Voice-To-Skull Devices’ Site

The Army’s very strange webpage on "Voice-to-Skull" weapons has been removed. It was strange it was there, and it’s even stranger it’s gone. If you Google it, you’ll see the entry for "Voice-to-Skull device," but, if you click on the website, the link is dead.

The entry, still available on the Federation of American Scientists‘ website reads:

Nonlethal weapon which includes (1) a neuro-electromagnetic device which uses microwave transmission of sound into the skull of persons or animals by way of pulse-modulated microwave radiation; and (2) a silent sound device which can transmit sound into the skull of person or animals. NOTE: The sound modulation may be voice or audio subliminal messages. One application of V2K is use as an electronic scarecrow to frighten birds in the vicinity of airports.

The U.K.-based group Christians Against Mental Slavery first noted the change (they also have a permanent screenshot of the page). A representative of the group tells me they contacted the Webmaster, who would only tell them the entry was "permanently removed."

www.wired.com...


voicetoskull.com...


Patent For Microwave
Voice-To-Skull Technology

United States Patent 4,877,027 Brunkan October 31, 1989

Hearing System

Abstract

Sound is induced in the head of a person by radiating the head with microwaves in the range of 100 megahertz to 10,000 megahertz that are modulated with a particular waveform. The waveform consists of frequency modulated bursts. Each burst is made up of ten to twenty uniformly spaced pulses grouped tightly together. The burst width is between 500 nanoseconds and 100 microseconds. The pulse width is in the range of 10 nanoseconds to 1 microsecond. The bursts are frequency modulated by the audio input to create the sensation of hearing in the person whose head is irradiated.

rense.com...


voice to skull devices

Definition/Scope:
Nonlethal weapon which includes (1) a neuro-electromagnetic device which uses microwave transmission of sound into the skull of persons or animals by way of pulse-modulated microwave radiation; and (2) a silent sound device which can transmit sound into the skull of person or animals. NOTE: The sound modulation may be voice or audio subliminal messages. One application of V2K is use as an electronic scarecrow to frighten birds in the vicinity of airports.

www.fas.org...


Peace, NRE.

Hey,NRE....so glad you could make it to the party! Feeling a little under seige hereabouts. Requoted what you offered.....noticed that link had disappeared off the US Military site. I'll have to check in the AM, but I am pretty sure I saved a screen capture of that link, suspecting something along those lines might be purged, at some point. V2S, though I think, is the tip of the iceberg. I believe in that same document there was admission this was used in some capacity of Iraqi forces, with great success, laying down their weapons and surrendering wholesale. The thing is, it;s not just the voices. A direct weapon as described above can also produce a frequency that inflicts great pain, as well.

Any way, I will look for that screen capture or saved link tomorrow morn. Hope all is well with you. I suspect I may be feeding a troll. Always a sucker, I am.
Tetra50

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by tetra50
To some degree, it validated and got something recognized for one person. But you see, I've posted source after source after source....you are picking one.

I'm not picking on it, I'm pointing out the error in your description of it.

You, also by refusing to be anything but negative, and thereby further suppresion of their expiences will do abolutely nothing to help Joe who is just hearing voices.

Not true if he realizes that he needs to seek help other than internet CTs.

At least with something of an honest discussion about it, perhpas we can help "Joe" determine just which kind of help he needs, after all.

If you want to have an honest discussion and help "Joe" determine what kind of help he needs, you can't suspend disbelief. That has been the problem I have had with the OP. You set up the non sequitoir from the start.

As for the court thing, what is ridiculous is you ranting about the courts being controlled after posting "court documents" as proof.

edit on 10-5-2013 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

Research non sequitoir. There was none in the OP. What was proposed was a suspension of disbelief, such as you have displayed, textbook, and a hypothetical, so as to encourage the Joes, and Billies, and Sarahs and whomevers that it was safe to speak about what they are enduring, so as to be safe from exactly what you have turned this thread into. You, I am afraid, will never, ever understand that, as it has been explained to you, and you have exemplified the very behavior which causes that supression to happen. I can only think from that, that this is your very agenda, and in this way, have displayed just what side of this issue you are on, despite protestations to the contrary, which when put to the test, significantly, statistically, belie your assertions that there are those who suffer, but this is not the place to discuss it. The allowance for the hypothetical and suspension of disbelief of the kind you have exemplified, also provide people with an ability to be quite honest without fear of accusations of mental instability, which could lead to losing their jobs, careers, families, children...

I'm afraid, daskakik, you have and are totally unreachable as to the effects and magnitude of those who may suffer from this try to make it through every single day and still function. It is all they can do. To reveal their issues to the wrong people is to make themselves vulnerable in ways I doubt you will ever, or perhaps do not have the capacity, to understand. If you do, however, then you display the worst of human characteristics for it points to you being somewhat supportive, if not duplicitous, of what is happening.

In the OP, you were asked some very basic, simple, protective rules to go by. The thread is in the forum it is in for this purpose. You, however, have done nothing to respect, nor abide by what was asked. And it was hardly a non sequitor..It was asking you to walk in someone else's shoes by suspending your bias long enough to grasp another;s conundrun, There is absolutely no fallacy of logic here, as long as it is spelled out from the get go,, which it was, for the purpose of sharing, determining what help was needed, where to find it, and what is really going on, which institutionalizes people and ruins their lives when maybe they were never schizophrenic of unstable to begin with.

The court document thing was clearly a piece of biat offered by you,; it's late and I am ehausted. And I didn't rant about anthing,

reply to post by tetra50

Say whatever you want but, I think that I have done my part to try to keep things honest. The rules you wanted this thread to follow were slanted and I doubt that they would have helped those people which "this thread isn't about".

I would also like to point out, again, that this thread has done nothing in the way of bringing any real countermeasures to the activities to which TI's are supposedly being subjected. All you seem to be doing is feeding the fear.

The court thing is not bait. You posted a court document as proof and then you went on to tell me:

that you truly believe the courts are operating freely at all seems extremely naive and at the least, disingenuous to me. I could provide you with plenty of statistics about the quality of defense provided to indigent clients, about guilty convictions dependent upon race, class and indigence.

Surely you are not that naive about our judicial system. This is such a ridiculous observation on your part

Setting aside the fact that I never said that the court system is operating freely, it is ridiculous to post "court documents" and then argue that, to believe that the "courts are operating freely" is naive.

reply to post by daskakik


you say, as it seems you are a last word kind of guy:

Say whatever you want but, I think that I have done my part to try to keep things honest. The rules you wanted this thread to follow were slanted and I doubt that they would have helped those people which "this thread isn't about". I would also like to point out, again, that this thread has done nothing in the way of bringing any real countermeasures to the activities to which TI's are supposedly being subjected. All you seem to be doing is feeding the fear.

Slanted: Is this what you call a hypothetical for the purposes of discussion in which people might feel freer to divulge in the interest of their own and loved ones, and way of living's safety? We all write threads in which we "tailor" certain aspects of the thread to hone in on specificities. You are becoming downright insulting.
And I suppose the reference to those people "this thread isn't about," is my repeated attempts to separate the electronic harrassment issue from the gangstalking issue, one not always accompanying the other: oh yeah, those are real feal tactics, alright. Such as, if you think you are experiencing electronic harrassment, it need not also involve gangstalking.....yup, you're right. That's what I am aiming for there,,,,,scaring the bejesus out of everyone, rather than reassuring them NOT to ramp up their paranoia when experiencing the electronic harrassment bc it doesn't necessarily mean they are surrounded by a gangstalking agenda, team of people aware of and copying their activities.

As for this:

The court thing is not bait. You posted a court document as proof and then you went on to tell me: that you truly believe the courts are operating freely at all seems extremely naive and at the least, disingenuous to me. I could provide you with plenty of statistics about the quality of defense provided to indigent clients, about guilty convictions dependent upon race, class and indigence. Surely you are not that naive about our judicial system. This is such a ridiculous observation on your part Setting aside the fact that I never said that the court system is operating freely, it is ridiculous to post "court documents" and then argue that, to believe that the "courts are operating freely" is naive.

"Case by case," your words, daskakik. The point of the court documents was to show people that there are those who have conquered their fear, and gone forward seeking whatever justice is left to be had. But in some cases it is successful, if only that one can get support from "officialdom," occasionally, or perhaps even take this avenue to get the harrassment to stop [electronic, not gangstalking]. But no, the courts very likely do not operate freely, and one can find many, many examples of that here on this cite, in the MSM, and actually going to sit in a courtroom and watching the proceedings and how many cases play out.

You're a narrow, one sided kind of thinker, at least in this thread, and you have repeatedly insulted. This is what people do when logic is failing them, but they just can' t seem to let go of their attempts to destroy and derail.

You know what is truly ridiculous, that by your consistent diatribe, you somehow see yourself as some hero here who has kept this thread honest.......when in actual fact, you've done your level best to insult, deflect, etc. Provide one source, go write your own thread, whatever. But please find a new nemesis, for I have done absolutely nothing that you would accuse me of writing a dishonest thread, and that is downright insulting, especially when you gave grounds for objections and were agreed with, time and again.

reply to post by tetra50

I think the posts speak for themselves.

Whoever reads them will make up their own mind as to who was doing what.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by tetra50

 

I think the posts speak for themselves.

Whoever reads them will make up their own mind as to who was doing what.

I agree completely. And plan to alert the mods that you have been insulting, accusing me of being dishonest in the very writing of the thread,and kept on with your insulting even when you were agreed with. And you clearly have had a problem staying on topic as the topic was outlined.

reply to post by tetra50

Just because someone doesn't agree with you or points out errors doesn't mean they are insulting you.

It's kind of hard to keep to the outline of the thread when the outline is what I had a problem with but, it is part of the OP so, I happen to think that discussing flaws in an OP is keeping to the topic. Some mods might disagree. I guess they look at it on a case by case basis.

reply to post by daskakik


I think if you were to review my post history in toto, on this site, you would find I don't display issues with people who disagree with me. Sorry, but that's a fact. I am willing to leave plenty of room for people of differing opnions, as long as they are based in some kind of logic, rather than a simple and distinguishable bias.

I posted this thread in this forum for a reason(The Gray Area: The Gray Area is a discussion forum that provides a dedicated area for members to post their confessions, disclosures, and related extraordinary personal experiences. Like the highly speculative Skunk Works forum, The Gray Area will tolerate topics that may be unusually hypothetical or unproven for the purpose of vetting the stories of thread-starters by the ATS membership at large) and asked the reader to "go with me." If you were unwilling to "go with me," one post would have sufficed as far as your objections It has been almost 10 pages arguing with you about my request for you to "go with me," with certain "givens" in the OP. As a result, nothing was achieved that was intended, for you stood in the way, a virtual road block, to that ever happening. In fact, looking at time stamps of posts, it seems you may have stayed up all night just to continue the diatribe.

Many times I agreed with you, but you certainly couldn't be bothered, even in the spirit of an exploration of an intellectual nature, to do the same. And yes, sir, it is very much an insult to accuse one that the very spirit of their OP was to be misleading, and "dishonest," This was your word, and I think you would find many, many people would find that to be quite insulting.

I am not competing with you. In fact, on a site with so many threads about destroying or letting go of ego, I have experienced more ego driven, nonsensical tripe from you that exemplifies exactly what egoism is about.

This is (and yes, I've proven to be quite the pushover in this way) response to you. Why dont you spend your time assembling, researching and writing your own threads.....and represent your own opinions about this matter, or any other dear to you, in this way. After all, this is what this site is supposed to be about. If you disagree so strongly, rather than calling me and my thread dishonest, why don't you produce something through your own efforts that represents what you believe about this, rather than spending your time attacking my thread, and doing so in an ever increasingly, personally and insulting manner.
Tetra50