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Department Of Homeland Security is NOT Stockpiling Ammo

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posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:10 AM
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I would like to preface this post by saying that I realize this is a conspiracy website. I also believe that some of the threads posted on this site are very interesting and entertaining.

The problem I have, is that posters here just blindly believe what people post, without actually doing any type of research to see if the information is indeed factual, or just plain false. What's even worse is when another poster links facts that show the information is completely false and other posters just ignore it. That is why I have started this thread, maybe we can put this whole BS about DHS stockpiling ammo once and for all. Remember, the motto here on ATS is "Deny Ignorance".


We all have seen the posts all over ATS about DHS stockpiling 1.6 billion bullets. The latest thread here on ATS claims the DHS is about to take over the nations populace. The poster likes to use "inside sources" and links to bogus information from sites like info wars. I believe I can debunk this junk reporting and hopefully can help some here truly "Deny Ignorance". I am going to post links to the articles most frequently used and then post links that show the information in those articles are completely false or misleading. Lets get started.

1. From info wars on Feb 7th. www.infowars.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">DHS PURCHASES 21.6 MILLION ROUNDS OF AMMO


The Department of Homeland Security is set to purchase a further 21.6 million rounds of ammunition to add to the 1.6 billion bullets it has already obtained over the course of the last 10 months alone, figures which have stoked concerns that the federal agency is preparing for civil unrest.


Pretty scary stuff if you ask me. Sure seems like they are stockpiling bullets to me. 21.6 million rounds? That seems like an awful lot, and the 1.6 billion bullets they have purchased and are stockpiling seems like they expecting something big to happen soon.

I guess I would be a bit worried, but upon digging I found out that the number is completely bogus. 21.6 million rounds? I found the final number purchased was much much less. Here is the link that info wars uses to back up their claims that DHS is set to purchase 21.6 million bullets. HERE is the link to the auction site FEDBID. When you look at the order and add up the rounds in the solicitation, they do indeed add up to 21.6 million bullets.

The problem is, that is the original solicitation and not the final order or purchase. If one would actually dig deeper that would find out the final purchase was actually only 140,000 rounds, not 21.6 million. In fact, the order was changed on Feb 8th, with the final contract being awarded on Feb 21st, 2013. Here are some links that show the changed orders and final contract awarded.

DHS order changed from 21.6 million rounds to 140,000 rounds

FEDBID change order link 140,000 rounds total

Final contract award notice

The final contract was awarded to Grace Ammo, LLC. The final price was $38,559.60.

So now we can see that the final purchase was for far less than the 21.6 million info wars claimed in its article, which got me thinking if Info Wars 21.6 million bullet purchase is that far off, how far off is their claim of 1.6 billion bullets?

I will add more as I go, as I am sure I will get plenty of people disagreeing with me.


Adding more to the original post.

The 1.6 billion number includes an order for 450 million rounds of HP from contractor ATK. However, that order for 450 million HP's was over a five year period and that number also is the maximum, will not exceed, not the total ordered.




ATK announced that it is being awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement from the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE) for .40 caliber ammunition. This contract features a base of 12 months, includes four option years, and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds.


450 million HP's ATK order

So now we have a 1/3 of the number of bullets allegedly bought in question.

There was also an order in March for 175 million bullets. It looks like that order was never filled, but I did find it interesting that order was over a 4 year period and in one of the amendment it clarified the conditions of that order:




The language on page 1 of 8 under “Minimum and Maximum Thresholds” has been clarified as follows: “….The The language on page 1 of 8 under “Minimum and Maximum Thresholds” has been clarified as follows: “….The guaranteed minimum of any contract awarded is 10,000 rounds for each type of ammunition and is applicable to the base year only. The maximum threshold throughout the 5-year duration of the contract will be 165,000,000 rounds for SD and 10,000,000 rounds for EP.
Additionally, the language under Attachment 1 (Ordering Guide), page 2 of 18 has been clarified as follows: “In the event that the Government makes multiple awards, the Contracting Officer provide a fair opportunity to be considered issuing individual delivery orders exceeding $3,000 in accordance with FAR 16.505(b)
. The maximum threshold throughout the 5-year duration of the contract will be 165,000,000 rounds for SD and 10,000,000 rounds for EP.
Additionally, the language under Attachment 1 (Ordering Guide), page 2 of 18 has been clarified as follows: “In the event that the Government makes multiple awards, the Contracting Officer provide a fair opportunity to be considered issuing individual delivery orders exceeding $3,000 in accordance with FAR 16.505(b)



Click amendment 2-223 for link to above

Notice in the above quote the MINIMUM guaranteed amount is only 10,000 rounds of each type and is only guaranteed for the first year of the contract. This means after the first year they do not have to buy any more ammo.


Getting a lot of statement on how it must be true if congress is asking why they need also those bullets and are getting the run around. Although I do not have proof, I believe it is a budgeting trick used by the DHS so their funding does not get cut. The orders are placed with the maximum amount so their budget doesn't get cut. They order the bullets and claim the money is needed to fulfill those orders, although the orders are not actually ever filled. That is more than likely the reason congress is getting the run around here.

Also as far a stockpiling, you can head to the auction site www.govliquidation.com... and see that our governmental agencies sure seem to be using these bullets, not hording them. They are auctioning roughly 50+ million empty casing monthly.
edit on 25-3-2013 by tide88 because: (no reason given)
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edit on 25-3-2013 by tide88 because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:19 AM
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Unfortunately people do not understand the RFP process.
Unless you actually deal with the government.

First of all an RFP is not an order. It is a solicitation for bids.
Request For Proposal.
en.wikipedia.org...

Second it wasn't an rfp for X. It was a rfp for up to X.
It makes a difference.


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posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:21 AM
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Again, gray, why is there such an acute shortage in the bullet market that corresponds to the DHS "open p.o."? They are buying them as fast as mfg. can make em.


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posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:21 AM
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The 1.6 billion rounds is not a bulk purchase. its Its accumulated throughout the last year to year and a half. your link acounts for one bid that closed on feb.
edit on 25-3-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:22 AM
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I haven't looked deeply into this until now, but of course have seen the blurbs about it here and everywhere else.

Great job, I totally agree with you about people just agreeing because it fits their idea of what the world is. The same happens when people make wild claims about being abducted by trans-dimensional-shapshifting-reptilian-aliens. And if you DO imply that the claim may not be true at all, 100 people jump down your throat with accusations that you have a "closed mind" or your eyes are "not open."

Anyway, again, great job getting to the facts of the matter. Sadly I doubt it will make any difference.


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posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by TinkerHaus
I haven't looked deeply into this until now, but of course have seen the blurbs about it here and everywhere else.

Great job, I totally agree with you about people just agreeing because it fits their idea of what the world is. The same happens when people make wild claims about being abducted by trans-dimensional-shapshifting-reptilian-aliens. And if you DO imply that the claim may not be true at all, 100 people jump down your throat with accusations that you have a "closed mind" or your eyes are "not open."

Anyway, again, great job getting to the facts of the matter. Sadly I doubt it will make any difference.



he links one countract in Feb and you call it good research? There were hundreds if not thousands of contracts for ammo.

If this was not true, why did it make it all the way up to a Senate hearing? Did the senate "misunderstand" the orders too?

do you guys think the government doesn’t lie to you? that there looking out for your best interests?
edit on 25-3-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:34 AM
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Conspiracy theorists are ridiculed because of the preposterous claims they make. I am glad to see someone setting the record straight. Thank you my friend



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by camaro68ss

If this was not true, why did it make it all the way up to a Senate hearing? Did the senate "misunderstand" the orders too?


Uh, maybe it got there the same way that certain U.S. senators felt compelled to accuse Chuck Hagel of making speeches for "Friends of Hamas," (a rumor they heard on the internets) just to find out later that no such organization exists.

When you have Tea Party nut jobs like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz in the Senate, there are no limits to the crazy stuff that's liable to be brought up in a senate hearing.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by grey580
 





Unfortunately people do not understand the RFP process. Unless you actually deal with the government.


Trying to explain that to the Jonesheads got my account banned from PP forum. I work for the government, albeit a provincial one in Canadaland, but we have a similar process.

We call it "tender". We set a listing of what we need, and by when, and then post that to tender, companies provide bids, best bang for the buck (lol hardly) wins.

This system we're talking about here has an added step of putting out a request for a proposal, like a pre-bid or what not.

It doesn't even mean the government is seeking out the amounts put forth in that proposal.

That said, back to the OP....


Are you suggesting that Alex Jones, and his infowars network, would fear monger to help sell their advertisers survival gear to help you fight against the tyrannical NWO?

I'm shocked and appalled.

==end of sarcasm string==
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posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:37 AM
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Not saying I believe either way here is the Military times spin on it. They are not a military org but they do have a little insight.

militarytimes.com...

However if anyone here does not believe there isn't a way around the purchasing process and the GAO you really need to wake up.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by camaro68ss
The 1.6 billion rounds is not a bulk purchase. its Its accumulated throughout the last year to year and a half. your link acounts for one bid that closed on feb.
edit on 25-3-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)


There are many other links that I did not post. Yes it is one bid and that final order was for less than 10% of the original bid. All their bids (solicitations) start this way, almost all large orders are modified and the final contract is much lower.

As for the stockpiling comment. Here is a link to the Government Liquidation website. One of the items they auction are bullet casings. Gov Liquidators actions spent bullets. Spent casing are added to this site all the time to be auctioned off. On the first page alone there is roughly 40,000 lbs of spent brass casings. Just to make the math simple, if they were 9mm bullets at roughly 8 grams a bullet it would be about 2 million bullets. That is just on the first page. It seems quite clear to me from this link that the bullets are being used, not horded.


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posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by GetLogic
Conspiracy theorists are ridiculed because of the preposterous claims they make. I am glad to see someone setting the record straight. Thank you my friend


Then why are you on this website? seeing your a brand new member as of yesterday. Makes me go hummmmm???


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posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by Flatfish

Originally posted by camaro68ss

If this was not true, why did it make it all the way up to a Senate hearing? Did the senate "misunderstand" the orders too?


Uh, maybe it got there the same way that certain U.S. senators felt compelled to accuse Chuck Hagel of making speeches for "Friends of Hamas," (a rumor they heard on the internets) just to find out later that no such organization exists.

When you have Tea Party nut jobs like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz in the Senate, there are no limits to the crazy stuff that's liable to be brought up in a senate hearing.


how is Rand paul a nut job? enlighten me please?


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posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:45 AM
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I am waiting for the op to offer some proof, he claimed he was gonna debunk it, but all I saw was one ourchase order, out of many, and it wasnt even a very large one to begin with.

Op, you fail unless I see some evidence, as k have seen what I feel is enough credible evidence to prove somthing is going on, and it isnt in the peoples best interest.

It is going to take a lot more than you one link to a tiny ammo purchase order.

Either out up or shut uo op, I just googled and binged this subject, looks like there are plenty of sources to choose from.

WhTs taking you so long? Having a hard time finding any evidence to back up your claims?


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posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:45 AM
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Don't worry, guys. The government is your friend and they are here to take care of you. They have your best interests in mind and would never, ever lie to you.

Just play with your iPhone and turn on your favorite TV show, because, there is absolutely nothing to see here.


And take that tinfoil hat off. You look ridiculous.

/end sarcasm



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by Flatfish

Originally posted by camaro68ss

If this was not true, why did it make it all the way up to a Senate hearing? Did the senate "misunderstand" the orders too?


Uh, maybe it got there the same way that certain U.S. senators felt compelled to accuse Chuck Hagel of making speeches for "Friends of Hamas," (a rumor they heard on the internets) just to find out later that no such organization exists.

When you have Tea Party nut jobs like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz in the Senate, there are no limits to the crazy stuff that's liable to be brought up in a senate hearing.


I think he meant nutjobs like nancy pelosi, you guys remeber her, " we have to pass it before we can see whats in it"

how is Rand paul a nut job? enlighten me please?



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by camaro68ss
how is Rand paul a nut job? enlighten me please?


When the devoted follower of crackpot cult leader Ayn Rand gets elected to the Senate, you wind up having Congressional hearings filled up with feverish rhetoric.



posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by CSBowie
 


While I agree with you on your point that there are (and always have been) ways to "get around" regulatory offices like the GAO, and also the nation wide ammunition shortage (which really is happening) I never truly beleived that an agency like DHS could really get away with that large of a purchase without alarm bells ringing in every level of government.
On another note, I happened to be present when the semi carrying my local Wal-Mart's ammunition order came in and was stocked. It was madness. They were pretty much sold out in minutes.
Now how about applying our collective logic to delve into the alleged MRAP purchase?
edit on 3/25/2013 by unsteadystate because: Add Content
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posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:52 AM
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I would also like to hear more about how nutty Rand is.

This is the guy that wants legislation passed to require bills to actually be read before they are passed.

This is the guy that had a large enough set to ask about the drones.

This is the one of the few guys that actually seems to give a hoot about our constitution.

Sounds like a real nut job to me. Someone better hurry and lock him up before he asks anymore legitimate questions.


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posted on Mar, 25 2013 @ 10:54 AM
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Well here's another 360,000 more rounds to add to your debunking. Seems like it's just going on and on and on doesn't it. Go ahead, bury your head in the sand, they'll just shoot you in the ass instead.





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