Depravity Of The Vatican

Originally posted by DrunkYogi
Was this a Scientific study?

Yes, published in the Annual Review of Clinical Psychology in 2009.

And 4% wouldn't make the World a den of Pedo's. You know, two wrong's don't make a right!!!

So four percent of the priests being pedophiles makes the church a "den of pedophilia", but four percent of the general population doesn't make the same true of the world? You have a funny way of looking at statistics.

Do you think the Pope is infallible?

Papal infallibility is radically misunderstood by most non-Catholics (and a lot of Catholics, lol.) By terms of what it actually is, not in terms of what people think it means, yes. In terms of what most people think it means, no, the Pope is not infallible, and even the Church says so.

reply to post by ParovStelar


I should also point out that the OP has made some rather misleading statements in his original post, as well.

Crimen sollicitationis, written in 1962 by ex Pope Benedict XVI , at the time Cardinal Ratzinger, is a document detailing how the case of pedophilia found within the Catholic Church should be dealt with. It indicates to bishops around the world how to proceed in case of sex crimes in the confessional or outside.

Ratzinger was not a Cardinal in 1962, and he did not write this document, which was an "update" of an earlier document, which covered the same thing. The subject of the document is the procedures to follow in the specific case of a priest who solicited sexual acts in the process of the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession). It covers the investigation and trial of someone so accused.

The document states that the solicitation for lewd acts against minors, either by word or gesture is to be kept secret.

That is not what it says, though it could be inferred.

It demanded absolute secrecy, both the priest and the victim, or potential witnesses or persons notified. Failure of this oath meant excommunication.

This is misrepresenting what the document says, which is that the trial itself and evidence presented is to be kept secret. I'm not going to slog through the whole thing to sort it out, but I suspect that this stems from Canon Law, which states that a priest who reveals any details of a person's confession is subject to excommunication.

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by ParovStelar

 

Actually, I'm not shocked by the things you mention. I don't mean to sound flip, but we all know that over 2,000 years, and many different cultures and political and military situations, we're going to get a wide variety of Popes.

Even Dante put some Popes in his Inferno. And we've had some Popes who were Saints and holy men. Why should I be shocked that you chose some of the bad ones and put them on display (leaving out any of the good ones)? Every informed Catholic should know that we've had those types of Popes among the 266 we've had.

The issue of secrecy in the 1965 instructions on how to handle a case? That sounds good to me. That's a particularly sensitive and personal area for both the claimed victim and offender. Why shout it to the world? I'm sure you noticed that the same document recommended removal from the priesthood and transfer to an area where the was much less chance of reoffending? That's what the mental health professionals were suggesting at the time, and even our public schools followed the same procedure.

ParovStelar, the Church has been the home of the greatest thinkers, artists, scientists, and teachers throughout most of it's history. It has been kindly and loving. It has also been run at times by some men who were very bad. But the Church itself is not bad, why not take a look into it?

You have to look at the root of the tree is it good.

a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit

Mathew

reply to post by ParovStelar


um , wow , shocking,

guess what ,,

ALL RELIGIONS ARE $%^&ED

anyone that follows them is a fool........ really, a god is going to talk to us and tell us how to live, please we are cockroaches to any god and just a gander at any major headline around the world will tell you that if there is a god,, he she gave up on us a LOOOOOOONG time ago

besides that if you still believe in christianity after the HOLY WARS your an idiot, thats exactly the opposite of what that religion is supposed to be about lol and should have been destroyed then.

Originally posted by ~widowmaker~
reply to post by ParovStelar

 

um , wow , shocking,

guess what ,,

ALL RELIGIONS ARE $%^&ED

anyone that follows them is a fool........ really, a god is going to talk to us and tell us how to live, please we are cockroaches to any god and just a gander at any major headline around the world will tell you that if there is a god,, he she gave up on us a LOOOOOOONG time ago

besides that if you still believe in christianity after the HOLY WARS your an idiot, thats exactly the opposite of what that religion is supposed to be about lol and should have been destroyed then.

"All religions" would include this religion...

James 1:27 (KJV)
27Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Originally posted by DrunkYogi
Let's make no mistake here, The Vatican is a den of Pedophiles. This is known. You either deny or accept this, denying this is covering up the fact's. If you turn a blind eye you are a massive part of the problem. Turning a blind eye, to me, is giving these monster's your consensus. Most people know what they are!!! There will be no hiding the fact's. Shame on those who turn a blind eye, absolute shame. It's not a matter of people waking up, it's a time of admission, nothing more nothing less. Pretending something isn't there does not make it go away. It will only make it worse. God........I believe in Jesus but not the Vatican. You must see the difference, they are anti-Jesus.......Anti-Christ. Take your Ego and give it a shake, a slap, a mirror.

Your prejudicial rant is just an atheistic anti-Catholic diatribe with no foundation whatsoever. You are making it up and your language is that of an emotionally distraught housewife. There isn't a word of truth to your absurd charges. We Catholics won't even feel sorry for your kind - we feel nothing at all. DEFENDER OF THE FAITH

reply to post by POXUSA

We Catholics won't even feel sorry for your kind - we feel nothing at all. DEFENDER OF THE FAITH

I hope i'm not understanding what you are saying.

Thanks OP for the effort and bringing the info.

I've enjoyed the back and forth on this thread. Apart from the obnoxious poster. I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I don't think the case for The Vatican on balance being a positive force in the world has been made.

The Priests thing is 4% having received accusations, many many more will have been clever enough, brutal enough and evil enough to ensure no accusations were ever made against them.

Not only that but the damage one single pedo priest can do is immense. Over four thousand of them could destroy tens of thousands of lives, and many more than deaths in a battle. With the true figure being higher than 4% we could be looking at hundreds of thousands of lives destroyed.

In my opinion ALL sizeable organisations have been thoroughly corrupted. Whether it's psychos, sociopaths, pedos, perverts, serial killers or those willing to blackmail and coerce the aforementioned. It is the way of the world. We live in a civilisation that delivers an evolutionary advantage to the criminally minded. Therefore they will tend to increase over time as a perentage of the population, as well as increase their area of influence. Unfortunately this will mean things are only going to get worse.

The world is a den of criminals and depravity.

Originally posted by POXUSA

Originally posted by DrunkYogi
Let's make no mistake here, The Vatican is a den of Pedophiles. This is known. You either deny or accept this, denying this is covering up the fact's. If you turn a blind eye you are a massive part of the problem. Turning a blind eye, to me, is giving these monster's your consensus. Most people know what they are!!! There will be no hiding the fact's. Shame on those who turn a blind eye, absolute shame. It's not a matter of people waking up, it's a time of admission, nothing more nothing less. Pretending something isn't there does not make it go away. It will only make it worse. God........I believe in Jesus but not the Vatican. You must see the difference, they are anti-Jesus.......Anti-Christ. Take your Ego and give it a shake, a slap, a mirror.

Your prejudicial rant is just an atheistic anti-Catholic diatribe with no foundation whatsoever. You are making it up and your language is that of an emotionally distraught housewife. There isn't a word of truth to your absurd charges. We Catholics won't even feel sorry for your kind - we feel nothing at all. DEFENDER OF THE FAITH

edit on 23-3-2013 by POXUSA because: DEFENDER OF THE FAITH

You should change your mood from apostolic to catholic.

Originally posted by truejew
Galatians 5:9 (KJV)
A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

A small number of bad popes leaveneth the whole lump.

This verse is talking about legalism, not sin. In context, it is discussing the false practice of mixing Jewish law with Christianity-rather ironic, given your screen name.

If the mere presence of sinners contaminates the entire church, then all believers are doomed.

I think the parable of the wheat and the tares is a better Scriptural explanation of what is going on here. Satan has sown tares among the wheat while we slept. But the harvest is coming!

Originally posted by POXUSA
Your prejudicial rant is just an atheistic anti-Catholic diatribe with no foundation whatsoever. You are making it up and your language is that of an emotionally distraught housewife.

I am a Catholic apparently and disagree with the practices of the Vatican.. They are liars, pedophiles, thieves, assassins who hold Swiss banks accounts in Switzerland.. Now back to the Bible

There isn't a word of truth to your absurd charges. We Catholics won't even feel sorry for your kind - we feel nothing at all. DEFENDER OF THE FAITH

Defender of faith you say? Refer to the above and tell me how many of the points are against the teachings of Jesus or are warnings for the future? Don't defend corruption.

Originally posted by merkins

In my opinion ALL sizeable organisations have been thoroughly corrupted. Whether it's psychos, sociopaths, pedos, perverts, serial killers or those willing to blackmail and coerce the aforementioned.

That is exactly why neither Jesus, nor the apostles started an organization with a single person for its leader. The Church was set up with a five fold ministry leadership to avoid a single, fallible person having full control and becoming corrupt.

Originally posted by Snsoc

This verse is talking about legalism, not sin.

It is true for all leaven.

Originally posted by Snsoc

In context, it is discussing the false practice of mixing Jewish law with Christianity-rather ironic, given your screen name.

True Jews are not under the law as you assume.

I feel compelled to point out that the Catholic Church is a 1,000 year old organization. In that time, it has seen its share of both good and bad management. It has also been responsible for good and bad things. On the one hand, there are the Crusades and Inquisition. On the other hand, there are charitable hospitals, patronage of the arts and the all-too-rare attempts to broker international peace. It is not evil, it is human.

Originally posted by DJW001
It is not evil, it is human.

Although the true Church is led by the Spirit, not the flesh.

reply to post by DJW001


Religion per say is a Giant ponzi scheme, designed to trap those with weak minds, praying on the desires and wants of those seeking salvation.The thought that damnation lies at the end of the road if you don't capitulate to its archaic doctrines and beliefs has been going on for centuries.

I am not knocking God, or Jesus, or any other form of deity. I am knocking the very basis of Religion, and its desire to enslave humans. There is really no difference between any of the major Religions out there.

I always feel inspired by this scripture, and it really does give me faith that there were those willing to see it for what it was, and act on it.

Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. ~ Matthew 21:12

Star for your post DJ.

Interesting... well done for a first thread quite refreshing to see ... dont let the naysayers get to you... s&f

Whoa, if you thought that was bad, learn about Islam and look around today...

Originally posted by Shaxuul
Whoa, if you thought that was bad, learn about Islam and look around today...

What? Don't you think the Vatican have terrorist cells?

reply to post by adjensen


Somehow I do not think you are Catholic, but some other denomination of Christian...if I read correctly.

This classic defense of the Church(es) is funny too think about, here we have religions that insists to know all and practices Godliness etcetera.

A question I ask of Christians, (by the way I was forced to go to church for 17 years of my child-life and have seen and argued with them from the start)....if Jesus was in your heart, you were born-again none of this would be possible, but yet it IS, and actually happens in many churches at far higher than 4%.

The churches are full of fallen people and religious views that change with whatever whim comes by from a new "amazing book" that tells us how to be free and rich.

I guess what I am trying to say and so is the OP is that your religion, is utter GARBAGE, or at least the understanding of it is, you COULD NOT do these things if you were Godly as you claim, being saved is not doing anything.

The churches ARE the false prophets come in Jesus name...NOT SOMEONE ELSE, but ALL OF YOU.