The Illusion of Humility

I believe pride and humility are often misunderstood concepts, twisted by the influence of religions that seek to smother pride.

What is pride?
Pride is the satisfaction and pleasure that comes from your accomplishments. Pride gives you a higher opinion of yourself than you previously had. Pride gives you a dignified sense of self, and is the path to self-respect and good self-esteem.

Pride is a deep seated love of what you are doing with your life. If you have pride, you grant more worth to this life. If you are proud, you have a realistic idea of your accomplishments and abilities, and are not afraid to let others know.

What is humility?
Humility is a set of self-depreciating behaviors exhibited by someone who has accomplished enough to have the right to be proud. Humility has no deeper meaning, all it is is a foil to pride; without pride, humility does not exist. Humility makes one seem less important and less dignified than he really is, and gives the perception that someone wants less credit than he is due.

Power of Pride
Pride drives people, organizations, and countries to success. Kobe Bryant, one of the best players in the NBA to ever play, is also notoriously proud. When a teammate is not performing up to his standard, he will let everyone know. If he leads the team to a victory, he will take credit. If his team loses because of him, he will take responsibility. If his team loses because of his team, he will single people out. People expect this of him because this is who he is, and who he is is a 5-time NBA Champion.

Pride can also make or break an organization. If the U.S. military during WW1, WW2, and the Korean War, when it was collectively proud of what it did, was an inspiring force. Soldiers from the enlisted ranks to the officer corps bought into the war, and this pride helped them to defeat some of the most powerful militaries in the world in Germany, Japan, North Korea, and China (they fought China to a draw). On the other hand, when the military is not collectively proud of what it does, think Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan, we have unwinnable wars, despite the fact that the enemy militaries in these countries are far less powerful than the militaries we have defeated. The difference is, our enemies in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan have far more pride in the war they fight, and as long as their level of pride in their cause outmatches ours, we cannot win.

Illusion of Humility
While pride has the power to win wars, what power does humility have? The short answer, it has no power, only the illusion of power in the afterlife, perpetuated mostly by the Christian religion. This is the Christian message: "If you truly feel pride in what you have done, you will be rewarded in heaven if you don't outwardly express that pride."

I would argue it is impossible to be humble unless you feel pride. It is impossible to do great things unless you have pride in what you do. If you achieve something that you aren't proud of, do you really view that as an accomplishment? For me, it would be a very empty accomplishment, and I would hate to go on with my life doing things I'm not proud of.

If you are proud and you refuse to express it, all you are doing is holding the Truth in. The true state of affairs in the world is that you have accomplished something great; how does the world benefit by not knowing about this Truth?

So tell me, if the only benefit you get from being humble is reward in the Afterlife, and you don't believe in the Afterlife, what is the point of being humble?

Im not saying that you are, but what you have written is almost exact to what Ive heard "luciferians" understand concerning pride and humility. Im speaking of true Luciferians.. not carnie satanists or wannabes. Not everyone understands pride or humility as narrowly as you have defined them.

reply to post by Wang Tang


Really ?

I think humility is love in action and pride is ego and separation and ' I am better then you' in action...

I think that pride can be blinding. A fair amount of pride one ones ability is as you say, a good thing. It pumps adrenaline and we feel good. But to much pride overstimulates our senses and we see ourselves in a light which is not only unhealthy, but dangerous. Pride can easily lead to clouded thinking. A dose of humility can help keep this from becoming to big a problem. Humility does not need an afterlife.

reply to post by Wang Tang


I've heard it said that humility is to know and be yourself as you truly are.

Therefore all we can do is to be freely and fully self expressed. No one can try to be humble that's absurd, and there's no greater turn off than false humility which is a form of spiritual pride.

reply to post by Wang Tang


I agree in part but do think that you are mixing some things that are not directly opposed. I can be proud and humble. Being humble means not seeking to boast or even recognition about the things you think you should be proud off.

The issue here is with one's definition of pride. Most theologians will agree that it is normal, natural, and healthy to have a degree of personal pride in one's accomplishments.

In the bible, where it is opposed to humility in various passages, pride is equated with undue self-interest and stinginess, whereas humility is equated with selflessness and generosity. Humility is not a feeling and is not necessarily always opposed to pride as you have described pride. What you have described is "false humility", a fake rejection of compliments in order to defer reward until later.:

Humility is considering the needs of others before one's own because you recognize their basic human dignity as equal to your own. Pride is considering one's needs above everyone else's.

Humility is being willing to serve others whether you are a person of high social standing or not. Pride is demanding others serve you. Again, it is an issue of your regard for human dignity as a separate entity from wealth or professional accomplishment.

Humility is giving the best seat to someone else. Pride is demanding the best seat in the house. If it's all about YOU, then you are being proud.

The issue is not whether you feel you deserve kudos for your accomplishments. The issue is how much of an *ss you are to others in order to get those kudos, how selfish you are in demanding your reward, how unwilling you are to recognize the intrinsic value of human beings, and refusing to honor the achievements and efforts of others even if their achievements are less than yours. That's what biblical pride is when it is presented as opposed to humility.

I think you got it the other way around...it supposed to be the illusion of pride...

In a nutshell, humility makes way for balance in nature, while pride on the other hand attracts negative karma.

Peace

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Wang Tang

 

I've heard it said that humility is to know and be yourself as you truly are.

Therefore all we can do is to be freely and fully self expressed. No one can try to be humble that's absurd, and there's no greater turn off than false humility which is a form of spiritual pride.

However, to know one's self as you truly are is to know that you don't know who you truly are whereby our self expression is but a role we play, with the creative self a mystery.

Thus the humble person is forced, if he's to be himself in relation to others, to be authentically inauthentic, and so he is therefore charming and mirthful, happy, without pretense because he's honest in regards to his own pretentiousness.

This is true humor where humor is self-deprecating.

But to be loving and compassionate, which is in alignment with the true self the true heart, he must take himself and others seriously enough so as not to offend anyone with his carefree attitude, and so he gets even more charming - which to some might appear arrogant, but already knowing that the joke is on him and willing to share that joke with others, if they don't get it, then it's not his fault.

He might even have to hurt someone's feelings whereby a Civilized person is someone who never hurts another person's feelings unintentionally - that might very well be the cost of his humility where the ego and the pride of man takes great offense at the one who's not faking (being true to himself) and at worse honest about the roles he must play on the stage of life finding himself here and with a role to play.

Such a person might even be a terror to the insecurities of others, and they might call him all sorts of things, maybe even persecute him for his righteousness and honesty (humility), but he would hold firm and be true to himself recognizing that there is no other way no matter what the cost, because how can you sell out to yourself?

The humble man then binds, with laughter, the pride in us, whether we like it or not.

HA! That's funny, there's great potential for a lot of humor here in trying to define what is humble I love it what a wonderful philosophical inquiry - perfect! S&F!

A baseball player can hit a home-run. But not by himself. Did he find the tree? Did he cut it down safely? Did he pick the log up and run it through the sawmill? Did he build the sawmill? Did he harvest the metals and heat them and cool them and mold the metals to the proper shapes? Did he design the machine? Does he power the sawmill of himself? Is the baseball player the ground? Does he support the sawmill? Or give life to the tree which he killed so that weapon of sport could be made? Did the baseball player rain on the tree to bring it up? Did he give it sunshine? Does the baseball player carry the wood back and forth, to where it will be processed? Does he sand the bat down to its fine shape? Does he burn the engraving into each bat? Did he collect or create the animals from which the leather is made? Did he birth them? Feed them? Did he also water them and give them sunshine? Did he create the color red that the lace of the ball might be red? How about white that the ball may be seen? Or the light in the sky; did he fashion his own eyeballs that he might see the ball which he is about to hit, with the arms he fashioned for himself? Attached to a body which he knows nothing about except that to eat is good and to drink is good and to play is good-- and all other things are a burden.

These are not even a fraction of the things which the Home-run hitter is utterly incapable of doing for himself. And yet it is all done for him so that he can play his game and be given money, which he didn't create, neither earn; and in exchange, the baseball player is only supposed to continue to live healthily and play -- things which the human already wishes to do, with great joy.

And so, tell me --- should the baseball player, for any reason at all, believe that the home-run that he just hit belongs to him?

That home-run belongs to the One who made all things possible.

That home-run belongs to God.

reply to post by TarzanBeta

Indeed, and if we do something good, like hitting one out of the park for the sake of one and all, he can't pat himself on the back no the reward and the victory must go to God. In so doing he may then be blessed directly by God and get to experience the everlasting joy of hearing "well done my good and faithful servant" in one form or anther. He never loses his sense of humor mirth and charm at the expense of pride, even when what he does is the greatest act of humility, and he never loses his humility because he retains an indespensible relationship with the everything that allowed him to hit the home run in the first place, you are absolutely correct.

Great observation.

reply to post by Wang Tang

As much as I love this thread as a philosophical inquiry I must say, even out of humility, that I totally disagree with just about everything you said in the OP. You need to realize that humility always gets the last laugh at pride's expense, but no worries most of us were late getting the memo..

Edit: To clarify I'm operating on the basis that true humility is what is authentic and real and true, as opposed to false humility which is an ugly form of spiritual pride (I can see why Jesus didn't care too much for the Scribes and Pharisees). Therefore, a healthy pride in a job well done, provided one doesn't seek their own glory, is synonymous with true humility.

"If I seek only my only glory then that, is no glory at all."
~ Jesus (Yeshua or Yeheshua or by any other name - the guy they (we?) crucified for his humility because of our pride).

And none of this necessarily has anything at all to do with the "afterlife", but everything to do with the present, and yet in spirit, with that which is also eternal and everlasting.

It's a fascinating and evocative inquiry though I'll give you that even though we may disagree on a few small items, like the power of pride (in waging and winning a war) and the apparent weakness of humility as a formative historical causation in human affairs.

Maybe there's another type of authentic power many of us if not most or even all of us, have simply never considered before..

reply to post by Wang Tang


Dangerous philosophies. The best kind.

To think that humility could be used as payment for the afterlife is dreadful and insipid. I wouldn't want to meet one of these humble servants.

But I do think humility is a consequence of pride, for one must first have enough pride in himself and his actions to be humble.

You're right to say humility is self-deprecating because that is it's purpose. It's done in vanity to hide one's pride.

Maybe, because of our more deep-seeded animalistic nature, we avoid pride to avoid confrontation, knowing that acting overly proud is akin to the behaviour of rutting animals. Since we don't consider ourselves rutting animals, but beyond animals altogether, we show humility to keep our nature and the nature of others in check.

Humility, without pride, is an illusion.

I think combining humility and pride into one who would be best:

MAGNANIMITY, n. [L. magnanimitas; magnus, great, and animus, mind.] Greatness of mind; that elevation or dignity of soul, which encounters danger and trouble with tranquility and firmness, which raises the possessor above revenge, and makes him delight in acts of benevolence, which makes him disdain injustice and meanness, and prompts him to sacrifice personal ease, interest and safety for the accomplishment of useful and noble objects.[2]

There's many humble and many proud, but all too few magnanimous. Great topic.

reply to post by Wang Tang


Pride will give you the strength to be an individual.
Humility will lead to feelings of shame and unworthiness and therefore easier to control (social conformity).

Contemplating this have given me great insight into the mind and heart of Christ. Thanks.

reply to post by arpgme

Humility is not to be confused with humiliation. It's being true to one's self AND the other both. It's the only decent way to be. To lose one's humility in favor of pride would be like losing one's sense of humor.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Being true to oneself and others would be "sincerity/honesty", not humility.
(Although there are SOME people who are genuinely humble and not just play the role for "morale")


Humility is others above oneself. It is not "honesty/sincerity/being true to self " in and of itself. Some people are genuinely proud of themselves and some are genuinely selfish... some more so than others...

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Wang Tang

 

Pride will give you the strength to be an individual.
Humility will lead to feelings of shame and unworthiness and therefore easier to control (social conformity).

Not true, humility is indeed for a great good, and quite fulfilling in that sense. Pride from an individual based perspective can be fulfilling, but fails to uphold in practical terms in a much broader sense of application, for a greater and much more overwhelming fulfillment that one can experience with applying humility.

Peace

reply to post by InnerPeace2012


"fulfillment" is a subjective term. Different things may be "fulfillment" for each person. You would need to define what "fulfillment" is because you make the claim that " humility leads to greater satisfaction/fulfillment"...

reply to post by arpgme

Putting others before one's self? I'm not sure that's possible since even the most altruistic acts are also self benefiting. You mean something along the lines of "the last shall be first and the first last" or "the greatest among you will be the servant of all" that kind of thing?

It's worth considering on this point, however, that for the very last might be reserved the very best of the best..! (see my avatar for clues, while setting aside your "religious" bias).

Oh the humor and the irony never ceases.. (for me from my POV).