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I am begging you to vote for John F. Kerry

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posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
The old 'America went to war for oil' thing doesn't work.


- I beg to differ.


We went to
war in Kuwait and liberated it. We gave all the oil fields back to the
Kuwaities after we liberated them from Iraq. If we wanted oil fields,
we would have kept them.


- The point is not who holds a title to the ground the oil is coming from the point is who controls the (single) market.

Currently the USA controls a single $ oil market and fully intends to keep it that way.


If we wanted oil fields, we would invade
Mexico and Venezuela. Those countries are right next door to us.
We could invade them and take them overnight.


- People are starting to look very closely at the games your government have begun playing in Venezuela....you Gov are messing with their sovereign democracy because of their legitimate attempts to assert their own laws and financial policies and their threat to move to pricing in Euros = collapsed $ if the oil market moves out of $ pricing.

This is the position your government has brought you guys to.


We could do that
without any Muslims getting all worked up about it and it would cost
a lot less $$ to do that.


- Yeah maybe you could but I would magine it would also complete your transition to pariah state.

You might be under the illusion that can go it totally alone in the world, God knows you have had a gov recently assuring you that even if you do it would be ok.....and so many Americans are so totally insulated from the rest of the world anyway, talk about know little and care even less. But as every state that has ever tried has always found to it's cost, it is a lie. Whatever the short-term appeal or attraction.....

We all need each other ultimately.





[edit on 1-11-2004 by sminkeypinkey]




posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by bigdanprice
Well you are wrong for action to be taken in the name of the United Nations then a majority vote of the security council is needed.


I don't think G.W. took action 'in the name of the UN'. He always
referred to this as 'The 45 Nation Coalition of the Willing'. I
don't ever recall him saying this was a UN operation. However,
if he had said it was ... Resolution 1441 covered it and there
was no need of any further security council vote to decide
to do something. Resolution 1441 covered that.


Well you cant say that the resolution was justification, it was a UN resolution after all.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by bigdanprice
it destabilises the region. Why do the surrounding countries hate it? Why were you involved in the first place. But supporting a nation that has caused three wars and innumerable deaths, that then perpetuates a circle of hatred and violence.


Israel doesn't destabilize the region. The religion of Wahabbi destabalizes
the region because it calls for the death and destruction of Israel and
the Jews (and all us 'infidels' too). You claim Israel has caused three
wars. No it hasn't. The Wahabbi religion has caused the wars.
Israel has caused innumerable deaths? No it hasn't. Arafat has. He
could have ended this years ago during the Camp David Peace Talks
with Bill Clinton, but Arafat wouldn't sign because Israel wouldn't give
the Palestinians all of Jerusalem. Israel doesn't perpetuate a circle
of violence and hatred. They aren't the ones teaching their 3 and 4
year olds that the other group are 'apes and pigs' and teaching
homicide bombings through music videos, etc. etc.

Israel exhists. It has a right to exhist. It won't stop exhisting
just to make people happy. If Israel ceased to exhist today, the
hatred from the Wahabbis would still go on and it would be
directed at us simply because it is easier to hate everyone else
rather than look at your own mess and clean it up.

Perhaps we are involved with Israel simply because it is the right
thing to do. You claim it is NOT because of freedom. Perhaps it is.

I put forth your own words - 'supporting a nation that has caused three wars and innumerable deaths, that then perpetuates a circle of hatred and violence.' Well I say ... supporting the non-nation of Palestinians, who have
caused wars and innumerable deaths, perpetuates a circle of hatred and
violence.

BUT THIS IS ALL OFF TOPIC from what the topic of this thread is
supposed to be. John Kerry.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 12:33 PM
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Yes its off topic and I will fight out the rights and wrongs elswhere. However it does link into Americas position in the world, and how a new leader will be percieved. This is important. The majority of world nations despise Bush, I dont say this as hyperbole but as having travelled them and talked to the people. He scares people and endangers stability in the world with his gung ho tactics.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by bigdanprice
Well you cant say that the resolution was justification, it was a UN resolution after all.


I wouldn't dream of ever saying the UN is 'justification' for anything.
It's a corrupt cesspool.
It is worse than useless ... (but
this is a topic for a different thread)

However, to those who think the UN has to approve everything ...
I put forth Resolution 1441 that was agreed to by the entire
security council, and that authorized America (and the other 44
nations of the Coalition of the Willing) to do what it did. Also, to
those who say the UN has to approve everything ... I say it doesn't.

The UN resolution IS justification for our action (to those who
need justification), however G.W. didn't refer to the action as
a UN action - it was an action of The Coalition of the Willing.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 12:35 PM
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I am begging you to vote for John F. Kerry



I would but....


I value my life



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
-Currently the USA controls a single $ oil market and fully intends to keep it that way.
- Yeah maybe you could but I would magine it would also complete your transition to pariah state.
-You might be under the illusion that can go it totally alone in the world,
-We all need each other ultimately.


-If we fully controlled the oil market ... why are gas prices so friggn' high?
And home heating oil?
- Fully complete our transition to pariah state? I think the world already
calls us that. I don't care. That's their problem. JEALOUSY.
- Totally alone in the world. I'd LOVE for America to give it a try.
First thing ... pull all our donation $$$ out of foreign countries.
Stop all aid. Spend it here. Our infrastructure and poor need it here.
- Yes, we need each other ultimately. It would be good for the
world to remember that they need America. But I think it's having
too much fun bashing America and hating us instead of looking
inward at their own problems and fixing them.


[edit on 11/1/2004 by FlyersFan]



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by bigdanprice[/]However it does link into Americas position in the world, and how a new leader will be percieved. This is important. .


'how a new leader is perceived' .... hmmm .....

Candy a$$ socialist appeaser who will 'apologize' for
protecting America and it's interests.

or

A Texan who is tough on terrorists and looks out for
America's interests and security FIRST, no matter how
it 'looks' to foreigners.

hmmmmmm .... I think we have better 'perception' with
the tough on terrorists Texan. We also will have a stronger
military and THAT is the big issue.

Someone here said that the facts that Kerry would be soft
on terror and is anti-military was just 'spin'. No. His voting
record (what little there is of it because he didn't bother to
show up much) was ALWAYS against the US military and our
defense. ALWAYS.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 12:54 PM
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I cant believe I am hearing this: George Bush has never fought in a war in his life, what makes him so tough? talking! I cant believe you have let yourself be spun so much. Kerry fought for your country. He is a 'hero'. I know who seems more qualified in my eyes.

Quite frankly your nation spends too much on defense, george bush certainly does, he has turned a budget surplus to a defecit and he hasn't caught Bin Laden, so this is the tough texan thats going to make you sleep sound in your bed. Good luck!



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
-If we fully controlled the oil market ... why are gas prices so friggn' high?
And home heating oil?


- Who said that this wasn't part of it? The 'big oil' people love oil at $50 +! For a start it means massive profits and on even their small (and till now) low profit operations now.


- Fully complete our transition to pariah state? I think the world already
calls us that. I don't care. That's their problem. JEALOUSY.


- No, it's your problem too. It is no answer and will hurt you too.

....and what's with this idiotic jealousy crap? Are you like 10yrs old or something? That's how kids talk.....or how spoilt brats are comforted by their daft mothers....no dear, they're just jealous of you.


Certainly as far as western europe is concerned I can promise you that 'jealous' is certainly not an adjective I or anyone I know would use to describe how we feel about the USA and Americans at the moment. Don't be so silly.


- Totally alone in the world. I'd LOVE for America to give it a try.


- Given your status as a net importer of almost everything I doubt that very much. How about a no/low value dollar?



First thing ... pull all our donation $$$ out of foreign countries.
Stop all aid. Spend it here. Our infrastructure and poor need it here.


- except those 'repatriated dollars would have collapsed in value as you left or were ejected as every market going got out of dollars.


- Yes, we need each other ultimately. It would be good for the
world to remember that they need America. But I think it's having
too much fun bashing America and hating us instead of looking
inward at their own problems and fixing them.


- Well if you want to sit there and insist it's all the fault and/or responsibility of everybody else but you guys (despite you lot having had the lion's share of the ownership and responsibility for just about everything in the post-war period) feel free.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 01:09 PM
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I am trying to rack my brain to figure out why so many people disllike Bush. Seriously what has the guy done to deserve such a backlash???

I think Bush did a tremendous job after 9/11 and the Afghanistan campaign was a huge success. True Bin Laden has not been captured or killed but we have not had a single terrorist attack on US soil since.

On the economy he has neither helped nor hindered the recovery. It is not his job to either. Greenspan controls the interest rates and the economic cycle.

Now he has lost focus on the budget deficit and has not addressed the upcoming issue of just who is going to support the baby boomers when they retire. If Kerry had a clear laid out plan to balance the budget over the coming years he would get my vote. But he hasn't. Why not? Guess he is just as clueless as Bush on this issue.

And that brings us to Iraq. Now in my view Bush and his team have made some big errors in this campaign. I don't believe anyone can really fault the guy for removing the evil dictator Saddam Hussein. It was without doubt the right thing to do. This was the US's first go at trying to invade a nation and install a new government without the world's support so they were bound to fark up a few things which they certainly have. But I do believe they have learned alot and this will serve the US well when we invade the next country down the track.

Would a Kerry led invasion have been more successful? Probably not. He would have farked up a few things, maybe different things than Bush, but he would have made mistakes just the same. We are new at these pre-emptive strikes so the first few will be messy. So I can't really favor Bush over Kerry or vice-versa on Iraq. Like it or not the US is now on an irrevocable path to clearing out the evil regimes on this planet with no turning back. The cost is going to be enormous but the rewards are going to be even greater. It really has to be done and I don't think anyone can dispute this. As the saying goes evil flourishes when good men do nothing.

Then we have the small side issues of gay marriage etc which to be honest are not going to shape this countries future in any great way so I could really care less. So I still can't find any great reason to favor one candidate over the other. None have a great personality or leadership qualities. None have any great ideas or policies. I am baffled why the country is so divided over these two men who are in the end so similar.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by mrdependable
I am trying to rack my brain to figure out why so many people disllike Bush. Seriously what has the guy done to deserve such a backlash???

I refer you to the previous statements.


And that brings us to Iraq. Now in my view Bush and his team have made some big errors in this campaign. I don't believe anyone can really fault the guy for removing the evil dictator Saddam Hussein. It was without doubt the right thing to do. This was the US's first go at trying to invade a nation and install a new government without the world's support so they were bound to fark up a few things which they certainly have. But I do believe they have learned alot and this will serve the US well when we invade the next country down the track.



I cant believe I have read this, Saddam Hussein was a bad man but what right do you have to remove him? I certainly hope they have learned and wont start illegal wars they have no right to do so.

Would a Kerry led invasion have been more successful? Probably not. He would have farked up a few things, maybe different things than Bush, but he would have made mistakes just the same. We are new at these pre-emptive strikes so the first few will be messy. So I can't really favor Bush over Kerry or vice-versa on Iraq. Like it or not the US is now on an irrevocable path to clearing out the evil regimes on this planet with no turning back. The cost is going to be enormous but the rewards are going to be even greater. It really has to be done and I don't think anyone can dispute this. As the saying goes evil flourishes when good men do nothing.

Would Kerry have invaded iraq illegally I doubt it. You needed a UN mandate, one you weren't prepared to wait for. The only way to remove a leader is for a valid reason and to be supported by the international community. Instead money and corruption and lies won out.
DONT VOTE FOR GEORGE BUSH!



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 01:21 PM
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Sorry, but this country needs a leader that does what he says he'll do, and not one that says whatever the polls say he should say.
Kerry has no values or beliefs. His position changes whenever the polls change, and that is no way for a leader to react! Bush, on the otherhand, is a man of conviction, and is the only choice if you want a true leader!



Visit:---> redcrownview.blogspot.com... for more reasons NOT to vote for Kerry!



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 01:21 PM
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Yes, it seems the Bush supporters on the board have finally come out of the wood work in answer to this very sorry plea.

I too have already cast my ballot via absentee for George W Bush.

I also received a personal letter from the Governor of my home state of Pennsylvania after I wrote him a scathing letter about disenfranchising my military comrades over seas by not extending the date of receipt for their ballots that they did not receive in time by no fault of their own. Seems with all the mail he has been getting he has changed his tune. Lucky for him...it would have cost him the next election...

I will not beg, as I way too much pride for that. But I whole heartedly encourage all of you who care about your safety and that of your children to get out and vote for President Bush. The mass exodus from the military alone if the admitted war criminal and proven liar Kerry is elected will make this nation much less safe. You want to see a draft? If Kerry gets in youll see onehell have to draft people to fill the void left after everyone gets out



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 01:22 PM
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i wont beg anyone to vote for bush or kerry but i would ask all of you voting tomorrow just to think for a few moments on the words of bush 6 months after 9-11...

Six months after he said Osama bin Laden must be caught dead or alive, this president was asked, 'Where's Osama bin Laden?' He said, 'I don't know. I don't really think about him very much. I'm not that concerned.'

"We haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure.

And, again, I don't know where he is," Bush said during the 2002 news conference. "I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him."

i cant understand how anyone can have trust & faith in someone who can make such a callous & unconcerned comment about americas greatest tragedy & his lack of concern to bring the organiser to justice.

just my thoughts



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 01:22 PM
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You don't need to beg. Kerry will win.

All the poles are pointing to him. Even the norths in my neo mags.


Tomorrow we will have a fresh new president that listens to the people and George Bush will still be a loser.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 01:23 PM
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I also believe John Kerry is a great man who will be a better commander in chief when he wins tomorrow. You know whats going to be funny is when Fox News shows president bush leaving the white house on Jan 20th for the last time, lets see them spin that. GO KERRY!



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by mrdependable
I am trying to rack my brain to figure out why so many people disllike Bush. Seriously what has the guy done to deserve such a backlash???.....

.....I am baffled why the country is so divided over these two men who are in the end so similar.


- I'll agree there are similarities but I think there are a lot of differences when it comes down to it.

One could go on and on...and on and on and on but here's my take on it....

There is the continual compulsive Bush administration's reflex to always skew benefits heavily towards the already ultra-priviledged and superwealthy.

Payroll taxes and income tax. Says it all. Bush has massively shifted the burden off of the broadest most wealthy backs and towards the middle and working classes and then looked them in the eye pretending to be their friend. That generates a lot of bad feeling.

There is also the small matter of his offensive on freedoms, born out of his utter and stunning failure on 9/11 which was born out of his idiotic insular ME policies etc etc.

Then there is the outright fraud and corruption. Both personally and in terms of that which he has enabled or excused his corporate mates from.

.....and I can't wait to see the list of pardons he issues on his way out the door.


Get the idea?



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by bigdanprice
Come on, This man and his father got us into this mess and you want him to get you out. Please. Bin Laden was set up by the US; you are reaping what you have sown. Stop with the high minded patriotic bull #. You need someone to heal your stance with the world. There are a hundred people waiting to take BL place. We will not achieve peace by blowing people up. You need to ask why do they want to blow us up, what have we done?

I await my flaming but I speak the truth..

Spelling

[edit on 1-11-2004 by bigdanprice]



I agree with you 110%

I.



posted on Nov, 1 2004 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by LostSailor
What have we done?

Well, first off we are a free country, Bin Laden doesn't like that.

We are a capitalistic country, Bin Laden hates that.

We are a democracy, Bin laden hates that.

We are a world power, Bin Laden hates that too.

He hates everything that makes America great.

He hates everything we stand for.


Hello.

Question, so, you think Bin Laden actually wake up one day, and said "GUYS! I HAVE A GREATE IDEA! LET'S ATTACK AMERICA!"

And all that with no reason at all?

Please replay on this.

Thank you on your time.

I.



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