Russian scientists discover unidentified bacteria in sub-glacial Lake Vostok

reply to post by Senduko


DNA, is found in almost all things on Earth. Virus' inject their DNA in host cells, which causes the host cell to produce more virus cells.

Basically DNA is the blueprint for a living organism. This is sort of the concept behind cloning. We place the DNA we wish to clone, inside a living cell at the right stage and that cell will grow what the DNA tells it too. It's pretty weird/fascinating when you think about it.

As far as this being "alien", Alien simply means

1. Owing political allegiance to another country or government; foreign: alien residents.
2. Belonging to, characteristic of, or constituting another and very different place, society, or person; strange. See Synonyms at foreign.
3. Dissimilar, inconsistent, or opposed, as in nature: emotions alien to her temperament.
n.
1. An unnaturalized foreign resident of a country. Also called noncitizen.
2. A person from another and very different family, people, or place.
3. A person who is not included in a group; an outsider.
4. A creature from outer space: a story about an invasion of aliens.
5. Ecology An organism, especially a plant or animal, that occurs in or is naturalized in a region to which it is not native.

Now in this case, 1 is out of the question. Bacteria can not have an allegiance to another country or government.
2 could apply, but this sort of describes human characteristics
3 we could use this one I suppose, it's dissimilar to things we are used to, but at the same time there are plenty of other Extremophiles living on Earth that share characteristics with the new bacteria.

N1 It's not an unnaturalized resident. It lives at the bottom of the ice in a lake, it's home.
N2 It's not a person, but it's from a family of bacteria on Earth known as Extremophiles. Organisms that live in the most extreme conditions on earth ie:high acidity beyond the survivability of other creatures, Extreme heat, or Extreme cold, 0 oxygen environments etc.
N3 no, it is included in a group, as far as a name and subclass thus far it is unnamed.
N4 Who says it's from outer space? It was found under several miles of glacial ice. With this Jump the gun logic we can also assume, some where in history everything on earth is from outer space. We have no way of knowing whether or not this bacterium is from Earth or space, my money is on it developing here on Earth, perhaps even under the ice itself.
N5 Okay, this one applies to ecology. IF this bacteria is found to exist else where on the planet, and it was some how introduced to the sub glacial lake, then it could be considered alien to that specific lake. Say we find out this organism exists in Ocean water, or subterranean water ways, and some how made it's way under the ice, into lake vostok. ONLY then will it be an alien using this definition.


I've been very excited since this drilling project hit the news! I sadly thought we would have heard something much sooner than we had, how ever the wait was totally worth it. WOW, Miles under the ice, in sub zero water. No sunlight, no oxygen(that we know of yet) There is life. I've really curious as to what class this bacterium will fall. How does it produce it's energy? What does it feed on?

At this point my guess is it's some type of chemotroph likely getting it's energy from different chemicals released by the sub glacial sea bed, or trapped in the ice. It could also consume minerals released by the movements of the glacial sheet on the sea floor beneath Antarctica. How ever most chemotrophs need some form of oxidation to extract energy from the chemicals they consume. So if there is absolutely no oxygen down there, I'm even more curious. Does this bacteria run on a process unlike any other known on Earth? Even if the bacteria is found to consume organic matter, I doubt penguin turd can get through miles of glacial ice to the lake, so something else HAS to be there if that is the case. Awesome stuff. Very excited to learn more.

Nice article OP !!

reply to post by Senduko


unidentified bacteria found, uncurable new virus comes about? Close to the same time....hmmmmm

I smell a conspiracy in the making.....Who wants to tackle the thread?

Originally posted by Hijinx
reply to post by Senduko

 

I've been very excited since this drilling project hit the news! I sadly thought we would have heard something much sooner than we had, how ever the wait was totally worth it. WOW, Miles under the ice, in sub zero water. No sunlight, no oxygen(that we know of yet) There is life. I've really curious as to what class this bacterium will fall. How does it produce it's energy? What does it feed on?
.
Nice article OP !!

Well they said it could feed on Kerosine or something, i'm gonna look for more articles when i have some time. But Feeding on kerosine.. that's wack lol.

And everyone thanks for the explanations of DNA,

reply to post by mclinking


Except this project has been ongoing for some time. The British and Americans Also drilled into near by sub glacial lakes at Antarctica. The Americans reporting they too had found some sort of bacterium in their samples.

Lake Vostok, happens to be the largest and deepest of these lakes how ever.

I do not see the connection you've made with Lakes under miles of Ice in Antarctica, and a small meteorite event in Russia(other side of the planet) having any relation what so ever.

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by Senduko

 

unidentified bacteria found, uncurable new virus comes about? Close to the same time....hmmmmm

I smell a conspiracy in the making.....Who wants to tackle the thread?

Except bacteria, and viruses are absolutely in every way two entirely different things and the incurable virus' you speak of are for lack of better words man made, due to the abuse of Anti-biotics. Drug Resistant bugs, are caused by in-proper use of Anti-biotics friend.

The report is rather ambiguous. They seem to have found an unknown bacteria, then speculate that it may be contamination introduced into the lake from the ice surface they drilled from. At least this seems to be what is implied by the remark about the water being contaminated with their drilling fluids (freon and kerosene). From what is said, there seems to be some hope of sorting this out, over time. They will presumably have to take the samples back to Russia to do the work necessary to determine if they have bacteria from the previously isolated lake, or not.

Originally posted by Senduko

Originally posted by Hijinx
reply to post by Senduko

 

I've been very excited since this drilling project hit the news! I sadly thought we would have heard something much sooner than we had, how ever the wait was totally worth it. WOW, Miles under the ice, in sub zero water. No sunlight, no oxygen(that we know of yet) There is life. I've really curious as to what class this bacterium will fall. How does it produce it's energy? What does it feed on?
.
Nice article OP !!

Well they said it could feed on Kerosine or something, i'm gonna look for more articles when i have some time. But Feeding on kerosine.. that's wack lol.

And everyone thanks for the explanations of DNA,

Kerosene? Really!!! That's interesting, at the very least it could prove Antarctica at one time was host to various living organisms in the past. If it can metabolize kerosene(a product of fossil fuels), I wonder if they have found the presence of any fossil oil down there? Part of me hopes not, the last thing I'd want to hear now is BP or EXXON setting up a deep ice rig. lol

Originally posted by Ross 54
The report is rather ambiguous. They seem to have found an unknown bacteria, then speculate that it may be contamination introduced into the lake from the ice surface they drilled from. At least this seems to be what is implied by the remark about the water being contaminated with their drilling fluids (freon and kerosene). From what is said, there seems to be some hope of sorting this out, over time. They will presumably have to take the samples back to Russia to do the work necessary to determine if they have bacteria from the previously isolated lake, or not.

I thought they originally stopped drilling for fear of contaminating the sub glacial lake. This is why they halted progress earlier on in the expedition. I thought they had switched to a hot water technique in hopes of quelling this mistake. It should be easy enough to rule out this mistake, by looking for the bacteria in core ice samples as well as the surface of the glacier itself. If they can not find a match for the bacterium on the surface, or in the ice itself this should rule out the possibility the bacterium is not a contaminant. There isn't a whole lot of life on Antarctica, and it was stated the Bacterium is not a match to any other known bacteria, so either way they have found new life in one of the most extreme environments on earth.

reply to post by Hijinx


Hey.....Don't be spoiling my thoughts here....

(takes tin foil hat off and crumbles it up).....

reply to post by Hijinx


Oh you have got to be bloody well kidding me? All we heard about this project when it began, was how every possible measure was being taken to prevent contamination.

I am so bloody angry about that possibility that it makes me spit.

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by Hijinx

 

Hey.....Don't be spoiling my thoughts here....

(takes tin foil hat off and crumbles it up).....

I'm sorry... If it helps, the new incurable Drug resistant bugs were brought on by mans systematic over use of antibiotics.... That's sort of a conspiracy... Man made super bugs, by "over treating" everything with antibiotics...

*hands you new shiny tinfoil hat.*

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by Hijinx

 

Oh you have got to be bloody well kidding me? All we heard about this project when it began, was how every possible measure was being taken to prevent contamination.

I am so bloody angry about that possibility that it makes me spit.

I know! As I said, I thought they had halted progress(maybe even a year ago, my brain is off right now) to regroup with a new technique before purging the shell to try and prevent any and all contamination. This is the reason they had given us to the slow progress, and suspense that has been Lake Vostok.

It shouldn't be too hard to rule out contamination. I would use this process; Look at all the core samples(which they are) for any of the bacterium they have pulled up. If none is found it is not from the glacier itself(this would still be awesome. Bacteria living in glacial ice!!!) Take samples of the surface ice in multiple locations looking for the same bacterium, if none is found, you can rule out the surface environment. At which point they can further their research into looking for matches, or relatives of the bacteria against known samples of bacteria here on Earth. The Article does say the Bacterium they found is not a known match to any other bacteria we are aware of. That should still be Effing brilliant is it not? Brand new discovery, Brand new territory.

I would be extremely disappointed to find out it wasn't from the lake itself, but we need to keep in mind the environment they are working in. There isn't a whole heck of a lot that lives there to begin with.

reply to post by Hijinx


No, but unless the impliment that they were using to bore the ice, to send down whatever probe device they collected thier sample with, and the probe itself were totally sterile, then there could be a problem with contamination, and if they havent totally negated that possibility... they may have just wrecked an entire ancient ecology, thats assuming there was anything down there to see.

Grrrrrrr.

So they have taken fresh samples of CLEAN water as of march 1st

As recently as March 1, Russian researchers successfully obtained fresh ice samples from the lake as the work continues there. They said it would take months to clarify whether life exists in the fossil water below the 3.5-km deep glacier.

From the previously contaminated samples they have this to say.

“The last analysis was completed a week ago - there will be another, but the results are unlikely to change anything. After exclusion of all known contaminants - extraneous organisms - bacterial DNA was detected, which does not coincide with any of the known species in the world,” RIA Novosti quotes Sergey Bulat of the St. Petersburg Nuclear Physics Institute in Russia.

“There has been one strain of bacteria which we did not find in drilling liquid, but these bacteria could in principal use kerosene as an energy source,” the head of the laboratory of the same institution, Vladimir Korolev said. "That is why we can’t say that a previously-unknown bacteria was found,” he stressed.

So with the first sample there was contamination, and although they did single out an organism that contained dna that does not coincide with any known species, they can not say it for certain it is from under the ice at this time.

Fresh Contaminant free samples have been taken and it could be another long wait before any results are posted

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by Hijinx

 

No, but unless the impliment that they were using to bore the ice, to send down whatever probe device they collected thier sample with, and the probe itself were totally sterile, then there could be a problem with contamination, and if they havent totally negated that possibility... they may have just wrecked an entire ancient ecology, thats assuming there was anything down there to see.

Grrrrrrr.

Yes this is true, and was originally my concern, as well as theirs with the drilling process. I had thought the worry of contamination was of introducing chemicals that could ruin the perfectly preserved ancient waters, which still concerns me. They have stated original samples were contaminated with Kerosene, Freon, as well as organisms that seem to feed off the kerosene. That can not be good news for a closed environment like we see at the bottom of lake Vostok

They have taken new "clean"(whatever that means) samples as of march 1st, and now we have to wait again.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by DarKPenguiN

 

Can anyone explain to me what the obssession is lately with everyone blathering on about some zombie plauge? I mean, such a thing has NEVER happened before, certainly not as a dead certain result of a bacterial or virus based illness. Rabies is about the closest you get, and still not the same thing.

Zombie in the traditional movie sense, means that the sufferer is:

a) Already dead, having been killed by infection with the sickness that creates zombies.

b) Cannot be incapacitated unless beheaded, shot in the head, or having its central nervous system blown out in some way.

c) Creates further zombies by biting the uninfected.

d) Is ripe for having a piano dropped on its head by a middle aged woman.

If the issue creates any other circumstance, then you do not have a zombie issue. So anyway, whats the rub here? Why all the chatter on this subject?

Well that is not the definition, no the origin

a corpse said to be revived by witchcraft, especially in certain African and Caribbean religions. informal a person who is or appears lifeless, apathetic, or completely unresponsive to their surroundings.

Origin: early 19th century: of West African origin; compare with Kikongo zumbi 'fetish'

oxforddictionaries.com...

Most of the conditions however that you give from TV movies can be met by the actions of parasitic control.

There are already parasites which control the brain of their victor in nature and can tell the insect it is controlling to drown itself etc.

I would assume that since these creatures would make a wonderful weapon, that weaponized parasites may be what people fear or even such creatures which would chose human hosts coming from space.


I don't think any of these scenarios are impossible.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD

Originally posted by Senduko

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Before anyone start claiming that this is evidence of alien life realize that this is just an unknown 'class' of bacteria at this stage. It is not evidence of a second occurrence of abiogenesis, at least not so far. This just proves that the original set of DNA that started off life on this planet is very adaptable.

By definition its Alien. Alien doesn't mean it has to come from space.

No, by definition it is unclassified. That's not alien. If it is native to that area it is endemic. Dont try to muddy the waters on this subject.

I think they meant alien to our space after being removed from the lake and is that not a true statement?

As in:

a plant or animal species originally introduced from another country and later naturalized.

oxforddictionaries.com...

Great for science, but we all know that if it is a bacteria that the world has not ever been exposed to, then all life has no built in resistance to it as well. It may have a profound effect on something and that needs to be established before any more of this newly found bacteria is removed from the lake.

How much can we all trust that every precaution possible is being taken in it's analysis?

reply to post by Char-Lee


As its not being introduced to any area and naturalized then no. Also as both definitions had nothing to do with the original statement i made which was intended to head off any comments about extraterrestrial origins arguing over semantics is just being pedantic.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

As its not being introduced to any area and naturalized then no. Also as both definitions had nothing to do with the original statement i made which was intended to head off any comments about extraterrestrial origins arguing over semantics is just being pedantic.

Don't see why you would want to head off any comments about extraterrestrial origins, we certainly can't know at this point.