How Father teaches all so that all may learn

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen

 

If Jesus actually taught reincarnation, he would have done so openly and clearly, not hinting around at it.

What if Jesus taught reincarnation but they didn't understand what he meant... and interpreted what he said about it wrong?

Verily I say unto you my friend... Ye must be born again... but marvel not that I say this...

Just as the wind bloweth where it will, and ye hear the sound of it, but know not where it comes from... the same is he that is born again... what is born of flesh is flesh, and what is born of spirit is spirit...

Except a man be born of flesh and spirit he will not enter the kingdom of God... yet those that are headed to said place have been there before... and they will go in and out because they know the way

Like exlaining an airplane to a rose bush. The parables helped with the "do unto others" business aspect of morality but in describing something so sublime? Jesus went west to the Occident after traveling east to Orient; took this knoweledge with him and it did not translate for his followers, being steeped in their own Torah oral or pagan traditions. For whatever reason not in the DNA/RNA form blooded and generational (needed someone along to translate Mandarin Chinese).

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by RobertF

 

Interesting I didn't realize god is/was a socialist.

He's not. He's a capitalist.

He is a capitalist funeral director.

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by Akragon

 

Have you ever read "The Apocryphon or Secret Revelation of John" (~ 120 to 180 CE; II, 1; III, 1 and IV, 1 and BG 2)

www.gnosis.org...

There are sooooo many ancient texts that speak about before we were in the flesh and how we come back and forth in the flesh that one really has to be against the notion to discard all the writings that do in fact speak about reincarnation or as I like to call it, reformation.

I know certain posters would never change their mind, so I don't even bother to try and push my views. I guess it is all about perception and how the texts speak to the reader.

I see it in the Bible and many other ancient texts and wonder how others can deny it or perhaps have another perception when it speaks loud and clear to me. Is it only for certain few to know and understand? I just don't know.... I do know what Jesus has taught me and reincarnation is one of his teachings.

We have to learn through the many forms, trials and tribulations through matter. This is what I think this thread is all about. We live... and we learn.

By chance if you have not yet read the link, do so. Its another view to ponder.

Hey mama hows you doin?

Actually I've read every gnostic text in existence many times...( at least as far as I know ) And while I don't agree with everything that is said in gnostic scriptures, I don't agree with everything that's said in the bible either...

I have two threads on "The Apocryphon of john"...

One which I believe outlines the best description of God ever given... Understanding the Indescribable

And one which is a brutal, i'd even say "butchered" summery of the book simply designed to point out some similarities In the names given and the beliefs of Christian sects.

Things hidden in Silence

Thanks for your reply hun...

Good to hear from you

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by jhill76

 

Some are here for the others to learn. So, some have to go through certain things to teach the others to assist. Father creates not only good, but also the bad, as human perception sees it.

The starving child in Africa could be helped by man, but man would rather focus on his own needs.

So what were these lessons?

Did you know, for example, that God:
Forced friends and family to kill each other for dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf?
Burned Aaron's sons to death for offering him strange fire?
Burned complainers to death, forced the survivors to eat quail until it literally came out their noses, sent "fiery serpents" to bite people for complaining about the lack of food and water, and killed 14,700 for complaining about his killings?
Buried alive those that opposed Moses (along with their families)?
Burned 250 men to death for burning incense?
Rewarded Phinehas for throwing a spear though the bellies of an inter-tribal couple while they were having sex? Ordered, assisted in, or approved of dozens of complete genocides?
Accepted human sacrifice in the cases of Jephthah's daughter and Saul's seven sons?
Helped Samson murder thirty men for their clothes, slaughter 1000 with the jawbone of an ass, and kill 3000 civilians in a a suicide terrorist attack?
Smote the Philistines of several cities with hemorrhoids in their secret parts?
Killed a man for trying to keep the ark of the covenant from falling and 50,070 for looking into the ark?
Approved when David bought his first wife with 200 Philistine foreskins?
Killed King Saul for not killing every Amalekite as he told him to do? Slowly killed a baby to punish King David for committing adultery? Killed 70,000 because David had a census that he (or Satan) told him to do? Sent a lion to kill a prophet for believing another prophet's lie, another lion to kill a man for not smiting a prophet, and some more lions to kill people that didn't fear him enough? Killed 450 religious leaders who lost a prayer contest with Elijah and burned 102 men to death for asking Elijah to come down from his hill? Sent two bears to rip apart 42 boys for making fun of Elisha's bald head? Killed 27,000 Syrians by having a wall fall on them, sent an angel to kill 185,000 sleeping soldiers, interfered in human battles to kill a half million Israelite and a million Ethiopian soldiers? Killed King Ahab for not killing a captured king, and then sent King Jehu on a series of mass murders to kill all of Ahab's family and friends who had ever "pissed against a wall?"
Killed Jehoram by making his bowels fall out? Killed Job's ten children in a bet with Satan?
Killed Ezekiel's wife and told him not to mourn her?
Killed Ananias and Sapphira for not giving Peter all their money?
Killed King Herod by feeding him to worms?

www.drunkwithblood.com...

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen

 

If Jesus actually taught reincarnation, he would have done so openly and clearly, not hinting around at it.

What if Jesus taught reincarnation but they didn't understand what he meant... and interpreted what he said about it wrong?

Verily I say unto you my friend... Ye must be born again... but marvel not that I say this...

Just as the wind bloweth where it will, and ye hear the sound of it, but know not where it comes from... the same is he that is born again... what is born of flesh is flesh, and what is born of spirit is spirit...

Except a man be born of flesh and spirit he will not enter the kingdom of God... yet those that are headed to said place have been there before... and they will go in and out because they know the way

Like exlaining an airplane to a rose bush. The parables helped with the "do unto others" business aspect of morality but in describing something so sublime? Jesus went west to the Occident after traveling east to Orient; took this knoweledge with him and it did not translate for his followers, being steeped in their own Torah oral or pagan traditions. For whatever reason not in the DNA/RNA form blooded and generational (needed someone along to translate Mandarin Chinese).

Im not sure how much truth there is to Jesus traveling to india...

I think its very possible, but I don't really know...

The life of Issa describes someone who taught very similar things... and there is 17 years missing from his documented life within the bible as well

Some believe he traveled there during those years while others claim he went after surviving his execution...

I like to think either is possible... but again who really knows

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Did Father himself order all of these, or did man think it was Father telling them to do these things?

I am not sure what the difference is here; AfterInfinity in the above reposted stated some harmless knowns. Father either ordered these actions or he didnt. Whether Man thought God was telling him to commit the atrocity is moot. The occurances happened, and endless finger pointing is the result. You being another very compelling example of revealing the reason or point of the confusion, for the added turmoil, and on and on it goes.

reply to post by Akragon


Im doing good thanks for asking.... been real busy with Hockey. Playoffs just ended and now its camp time, until spring season starts. Whew! I'm worn out!

I figured you were probably familiar with the Gnostic texts and The Apocryphon of John. Its one of the few texts I've read where one actually says to call him God is really not accurate for there are many Gods, but he is the source for ALL or, the indescribable, one with no name. Fascinating read to me, really.

The Gnostic texts are like all the others, they need deciphering by the reader. It is another story to learn from. Take what you feel is true and go with it until you learn something else that fits your idea of reality.

I gotta eat and head to bed, but while I eat Im gonna read the threads you linked me to.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Did Father himself order all of these, or did man think it was Father telling them to do these things?

I am not sure what the difference is here; AfterInfinity in the above reposted stated some harmless knowns. Father either ordered these actions or he didnt. Whether Man thought God was telling him to commit the atrocity is moot. The occurances happened, and endless finger pointing is the result. You being another very compelling example of revealing the reason or point of the confusion, for the added turmoil, and on and on it goes.

edit on 4-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

I did it for others to know that sometimes when people say they hear Father, it is not always Father. There are many reasons behind what I write on here, not just for the OP of said question.

reply to post by adjensen

It speaks to three Jewish beliefs -- that physical deformities were (possible) punishments from God, that the sins of the father could be visited on the child, and that God is omniscient. So the disciples were asking about the man himself, because God's omniscience meant that he knew the man was a sinner before he was born and thus cursed him (read Psalm 139, it's spelled out quite clearly there.)

There he is again, that tyrannical, judgmental God! Of course there is no reincarnation! When God told Adam and Eve that they would die, he meant it! No second chance, no more go arounds! Dead is dead! Ashes to ashes! Every good Hebrew knew that!

And, every good Hebrew, of course, knew that God punishes innocent babies in the womb for the transgressions of their parents, grand parents and back 7 generations! God would never punish the soul, by making it come back to "reap what it had sewn." There is no such thing as "karma". God decides who will receive mercy and who will not. Good deeds are but rags........

Of course every good Hebrew knew that sometimes, while God was knitting a body in the womb, creating a soul and assessing the terms of it's relationship with it's creator, God created rebellious sinners, pre-birth, so that he could pre-judge them and force them to live as outcasts and beggers. Because, God is fair and just God.

Reincarnation was not a Jewish belief (apart from some minority mystics) -- they believed that you died and that was it (the Sadducees) or were punished for a bit and then resurrected at some point (everyone else.) If Jesus actually taught reincarnation, he would have done so openly and clearly, not hinting around at it.

Jesus basically called the guy who told Adam and Eve that they would die, a liar. He promised people that they would not die, that they would not taste death, they they would be free as the wind and have everlasting life and be reborn. He warned people, "what one binds on earth will be bound in heaven, what one does not bind on earth will not be bound in heaven (the next life), Karma!

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Notice, it doesn't say, "from this time forward". It says, "so is everyone born in the spirit." Jesus was of one of the "minor mystic" sects. He couldn't have been any clearer. He taught reincarnation.

Jesus seemed to continuously be appearing to be blasphemous to the pharisees, who were still promoting the lie, "Ye shall surly die." After all, there father was Satan.

reply to post by Akragon

We are born of the flesh and the spirit, but most don't realize this...

Not "flesh and spirit", but "flesh then spirit".

1 Corinthians 15:46, 47, 49

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

reply to post by Akragon

Take a look at how many were called "the son of man" it wasn't only Jesus.

People need to start taking note of when the word son is capitalized or not. If it's capitalized, it's referring to Jesus, it it's not, it's referring to other believers.

Jesus = Son of God, Son of man
Jews = sons of God, sons of man

reply to post by Akragon

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Jesus told them this because they lost their chance at seeing his second coming in their lifetime. For the believers, he was telling them that the Holy Spirit would reside in their heart with them until the actual physical second coming. That's what he meant when he told them that the kingdom of God was within them.

John 18:36

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Jesus is telling them that his kingdom would have been in this world had they not rejected him. If the Jews had fought for him, he would have stayed, but they rejected him instead. This is why he closes this sentence with "BUT now is my kingdom not from hence". After that time, the kingdom of God would only reside in them as the Holy Spirit until a future date when they'll be forced to recognize him for who he is.

reply to post by windword

Notice, it doesn't say, "from this time forward". It says, "so is everyone born in the spirit."

You left out an important word when you requoted this.

"so is everyone THAT IS born of the spirit."

Meaning, not everyone is born of the spirit.

reply to post by Thought Provoker

This heavily hints at reincarnation. Did Jesus say "You silly disciples, how could he sin before he was born??"

If you read the translator's notes for John 9:2, in NetBible, it says, ". . . in rabbinic Jewish thought, an unborn child was capable of sinning."

reply to post by Deetermined


I could be wrong.... will let Akragon determine the meaning for sure... I think he is speaking on behalf of all the ancient texts he is familiar with, not just the Bible.

If that is the case other texts including the Bible do mention "sons of man".

There are many mysteries to figure out with the Bible alone, much less all the other texts mixed with it. This is just one of them.

reply to post by Deetermined

Jews = sons of God, sons of man

Where do you get that from?
According to the New Testament, those who believe in Jesus become the sons of God.
Ezekiel was probably a Jew and was called "son of man" in his story.
I don't know who else was called that.
Jesus called himself "son of man" probably because he saw himself as the subject of that vision recorded in the Book of Daniel.

reply to post by MamaJ

The first known use of "The Son of Man" as a title in Jewish writings comes from the book of 1 Enoch and its use played a role in the early Christian understanding and use of the title.

In thirty two cases the phrase appears in intermediate plural form "sons of men", i.e. human beings. As generally interpreted by Jews, denotes mankind generally, with special reference to their weakness and frailty.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by jmdewey60

According to the New Testament, those who believe in Jesus become the sons of God.

You are correct. Jews that followed Jesus were considered "sons of God" as well as anyone else that followed Jesus afterwards.

reply to post by Deetermined

Jesus told them this because they lost their chance at seeing his second coming in their lifetime.

The Parusia was Jesus' 'coming into his kingdom' and that "chance" was not "lost". It did happen but was like Jesus said, "not by observation", at least not directly, meaning people did not literally see Jesus sitting on a cloud at the right hand of God. They witnessed the retribution against the system that murdered Jesus, with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem.

For the believers, he was telling them that the Holy Spirit would reside in their heart with them until the actual physical second coming. That's what he meant when he told them that the kingdom of God was within them.

I'm not familiar with there being a time limit on the indwelling of the spirit.
There is no "actual physical second coming" that I am aware of.

Jesus is telling them that his kingdom would have been in this world had they not rejected him.

It is "in" this world. It is not "of" this world, meaning it is not derived from earthly origin.
A contrasting example could be the modern so-called 'state' of Israel, illegally occupying Palestine. That 'kingdom' is of this world, meaning political and military influence established it and maintains its existence.
Jesus' kingdom needs no such assistance, being established by God.

If the Jews had fought for him, he would have stayed, but they rejected him instead.

If Jesus wanted that, he said he had legions of angels at his command. He obviously didn't want a military victory and rejected that idea from the very beginning.
In the Gospel of John, it says there were a large amount of people willing to support him the moment he went public, but he did not trust they, and hid himself from them.

This is why he closes this sentence with "BUT now is my kingdom not from hence". After that time, the kingdom of God would only reside in them as the Holy Spirit until a future date when they'll be forced to recognize him for who he is.

You have obviously been indoctrinated into a militaristic cult, which is that way, and so invented by its creators, to give its adherents the war-like spirit to cheer on the murders of modern so-called Israel against the hapless rightful inhabitants of Palestine.

reply to post by Deetermined

You are correct. Jews that followed Jesus were considered "sons of God" as well as anyone else that followed Jesus afterwards.

So if we choose our own destiny, then we are disowned? We reject his agenda, and in return, he rejects us?