How Father teaches all so that all may learn

reply to post by Deetermined


Son is one.... sons would be plural, of course. Either way.... they or we are sons of men/man.

If Jesus is the Son of man and we are also the sons and daughters of man... its the same. Capitalizing for Jesus in the singular because it is referencing his name. My name is generally capitalized as well when I am not mentioned in a "they" or "we" context.

Again, its all about interpretation.

There are also references to the children of man.

If we are not children of man.... who might we be? This answer will be different from poster to poster, I imagine.

I believe in my heart that we are taught by which we need on a soul level. My interpretation may then be different because my understanding and what I need to understand is different than another soul. I don't know.... just thinking while typing.

The Genesis Apocryphon, one of the texts uncovered among the Dead Sea Scrolls, also contains references to the angels interbreeding with human women. In this text, a conversation between Lamech, the father of Noah, and his wife Bathenosh is detailed. Lamech questions his wife because he thinks that the conception of Noah was due to either an angel or one of their offspring, a nephilim. The Book of Enoch, the Book of Jubilees, and the Genesis Apocryphon all clearly show that the common understanding at the time of Yeshua was that the fallen host had committed fornication with women in the period before the Flood. As stated previously, many early Christian writers accepted the story told in Enoch as fact. Let's examine the writings of two of them, beginning with Justin Martyr, who lived from 110 CE to 165 CE. Here is what he had to say in chapter 5 of his Second Apology, entitled ""How the Angels Transgressed": God, when He had made the whole world, and subjected things earthly to man, and arranged the heavenly elements for the increase of fruits and rotation of the seasons, and appointed this divine law – for these things also He evidently made for man – committed the care of men and of all things under heaven to angels whom He appointed over them. But the angels transgressed this appointment, and were captivated by love of women, and begat children who are those that are called demons; and besides, they afterwards subdued the human race to themselves, partly by magical writings, and partly by fears and punishments they occasioned, and partly by teaching them to offer sacrifices, and incense, and libations, of which things they stood in need after they enslaved by lustful passions; and among men they sowed murders, wars, adulteries, intemperate needs, and all wickedness. . . . (p. 363, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers)

And what of the Greek mythology? Does anyone see how some of the myths tie in to the Biblical texts/myth?

The idea that the nephilim or giants were the offspring of the fallen host and human females was not unique to Judaism. This understanding was likely behind the Greek, Roman, and Egyptian mythologies, as well as those of India and the near east. All these beliefs resulted not as mere inventions of fertile human imagination, but as a corruption of antediluvian truths which were distorted as their origin was forgotten over time. Take, for example, the legend of the Titans. In Greek mythology, the Titans were a family of giant gods who were the offspring of Uranus (heaven) and Gaea (earth). The most famous of the Titans was Cronus, who killed his father. Cronus later led the Titans in their losing war against Zeus and the Olympian gods. After their defeat, the Titans were imprisoned in a section of the underworld called Tartarus. In his second epistle, the apostle Peter uses part of this Greek myth to explain the fate of some of the fallen angels. He states that for their sins, these angels had been tartarosas, which The NKJV Greek English Interlinear New Testament translates literally as "confining them to Tartarus" (also known in the Bible as "the Abyss"): II PETER 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell [tartarosas] and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; (NKJV)

The link below has a lot of information, however I cannot quote it all, but one if curious, can read it at their leisure.

www.herealittletherealittle.net...

reply to post by jmdewey60

I'm not familiar with there being a time limit on the indwelling of the spirit. There is no "actual physical second coming" that I am aware of.

There will be a physical second coming that brings in the Millennial reign.

As for the indwelling of the Spirit, when we're all together living with God, we won't need the Spirit to help us because we'll already be living with God in his new kingdom and we'll be experiencing him directly.

The purpose of the Holy Spirit was to keep us close to God until we go to be with him.

reply to post by Deetermined


Of course, for a species entirely fixated on physical stimuli, it isn't surprising that you would assume the second coming to be a physical event, rather than an evolution of our perception. I don't believe in the second coming, but I do hope to see a revolution of perception. Obviously, the first-person shooter syndrome is resulting in a disturbing lack of comprehension on a variety of levels.

reply to post by jmdewey60

You have obviously been indoctrinated into a militaristic cult, which is that way, and so invented by its creators, to give its adherents the war-like spirit to cheer on the murders of modern so-called Israel against the hapless rightful inhabitants of Palestine.

What do think it means when it says that Jesus would return to rule with an iron fist, iron rod, iron scepter and judge the nations that came against Israel?

Unfortunately, your problem is that you don't read or understand the Old Testament or the book of Revelation to even know what the Bible says about Jesus or the future.

reply to post by MamaJ

And what of the Greek mythology? Does anyone see how some of the myths tie in to the Biblical texts/myth?

Absolutely. I think that's why we saw so much killing in the Old Testament.

I think back in that day, there was a war of the gods and their people/followers and survival was all about either kill or be killed.

Just like today, God allows people to choose their own fate based on who they choose to follow.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


If there was going to be a "evolution of perception", it would have happened already.

Originally posted by Night Star
I don't know about that. I have seen so many amazingly wonderful people go through so much crap in their life that it pratically breaks their spirit, their will to live. They didn't deserve such things to happen. What is anyone to learn from feeling so depressed and hopeless?

That they are not alone. We all go through rough patches and some have it worse than others, but they are never alone. Holding all that pain inside prevents healing.

reply to post by Deetermined

. . . you don't read or understand the Old Testament or the book of Revelation . . .

I do read the Bible.
What I don't do is let what I have been told to think it means override what I find that it says.
There is a part in Revelation that talks like what you quote but I think it is saying that the saying in Psalms that people were in the practice of applying to a future Messiah, has been fulfilled in a different way, by the lamb, and not some sort of horrific earthly tyrant, which the earth had seen plenty of at that time, by the Romans.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by MamaJ

 

And what of the Greek mythology? Does anyone see how some of the myths tie in to the Biblical texts/myth?

Absolutely. I think that's why we saw so much killing in the Old Testament.

I think back in that day, there was a war of the gods and their people/followers and survival was all about either kill or be killed.

Just like today, God allows people to choose their own fate based on who they choose to follow.

This one thing i have come to understand from reading various mythologies and literatures from around the world. There is some truth in every myth, seperating the truth from the fable is the hard part.

Take for instance the fact that giants once walked this earth. Some called them Nephilim, greeks called them Titans, the ancient egyptians called them their gods and they too were giants, sumerians called them anunnaki, norse called them frost giants and even my native amiercan ancestors had stories of battling giant men 15 feet and more tall who ate the flesh of men.

However these things were not gods, nor were they extraterrerials. They were just men, possibly hybrid children of fallen angels and humans. Did they exist? Well considering that many peoples all over the world have stories of them, it's a pretty good bet they did, people passed down stories of things they thought were important and usually things they saw that they didnt understand.

Now in the book of Jasher it speaks about how fallen ones taught the mixture of species, and how everything had corrupted it way on the earth and we're begininng to see that come around again with transhumanism, implanting human DNA in animals, with cloning, genetic manipulation and cyborg technologies hybriding man with machine and the desire of scientists to create artilects by impanting microcomputers in the brains of unborn children and changing their functionality into post humanity. The ancients said this type of thing happened before, and we're seeing it come again.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by windword

 

Notice, it doesn't say, "from this time forward". It says, "so is everyone born in the spirit."

You left out an important word when you requoted this.

"so is everyone THAT IS born of the spirit."

Meaning, not everyone is born of the spirit.

edit on 5-3-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

Fair enough.

So who is born in the spirit? Was Moses? If he was, then he was able to reincarnate. Even if there is a finite number of individuals that are "free as the wind" and capable of reincarnating, then reincarnation is happening.

What of the apostles, disciples, saints, martyrs and true believers and followers, who were born again, in the spirit? If Jesus was telling the truth, there are a lot of souls capable of reincarnating.

If Jesus choose to incarnate to help mankind, why wouldn't the born again, saved individuals of our past want to participate in the "great work" until it was done, and every possible soul was saved? Wouldn't it be irresponsible for a born again, saved soul to sit back, sipping ambrosia in paradise, waiting for the world to end, if they had the choice to reenter and continue spreading the good word and helping other souls gain salvation?

reply to post by Deetermined

There will be a physical second coming that brings in the Millennial reign.

Revelation 20:5 says that the rest of the dead had not been raised yet.
The ones with Jesus in heaven for a thousand years were the martyrs, as a sort of special reward.
So there is no "coming" at the beginning of the thousand years other than the coming of the souls killed for the name of Jesus, to Heaven.

As for the indwelling of the Spirit, when we're all together living with God, we won't need the Spirit to help us because we'll already be living with God in his new kingdom and we'll be experiencing him directly.

The purpose of the Holy Spirit was to keep us close to God until we go to be with him.

The spirit makes you alive.
According to Paul, there is a natural spirit that eventually leads to death.
Then there is a spirit that comes from God that leads to life, in that we now live for God.
There is no relinquishing of that spirit ever mentioned.
You are probably confusing the work of the person, The Holy Ghost, who is the comforter (among other things).

reply to post by jmdewey60

The spirit makes you alive.
According to Paul, there is a natural spirit that eventually leads to death.
Then there is a spirit that comes from God that leads to life, in that we now live for God.

I think we have established that Paul was a liar and a cheat. Unless you can prove he wasn't? That his word is reliable?

reply to post by Deetermined

I think back in that day, there was a war of the gods and their people/followers and survival was all about either kill or be killed.

So, there were real gods back in the Old Testament times and that is why killing whole populations of people who were following those "real" gods was justified?

That is absolutely horrible and I feel sorry for you that you have found yourself in a cult that teaches such nonsense.
You are talking about bigotry and racism and justification for genocide by a hateful God.

I'm also sorry that you cling to the 'god' that Jesus came to free us from.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I think we have established that Paul was a liar and a cheat. Unless you can prove he wasn't? That his word is reliable?

I must have missed that.
What thread was that 'established' in?
I don't think that I have to 'prove' the negative of what I consider to be mere unfounded accusations.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Revelation 20:5 says that the rest of the dead had not been raised yet.

Those are the souls of the wicked and the dead.

Revelation 20:12-13

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

John 5:29

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

reply to post by jmdewey60

So, there were real gods back in the Old Testament times and that is why killing whole populations of people who were following those "real" gods was justified?

Do some research in the Bible on Ba'al, Ashtoreth, Chemosh, Milcom.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I must have missed that.
What thread was that 'established' in?
I don't think that I have to 'prove' the negative of what I consider to be mere unfounded accusations.

My thread on Love vs Tyranny, I think. I do believe Google would be willing to point you in the right direction, too. Although I can't see why you would put forth the effort, considering your opinion couldn't possibly be incorrect. Research is for the unintelligent, right? Don't worry, I'm sure we can take your word for it. We've been doing it for 2,000 years, anyway.

But if you want to, that's okay, too.

reply to post by Deetermined

If there was going to be a "evolution of perception", it would have happened already.

It did. That's what caused the Crusades.

I was rather hoping that we could be more mature about settling differences this time around, instead of sending the ignorant to slaughter the more open-minded types. Again.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I'm also sorry that you cling to the 'god' that Jesus came to free us from.

I'm so sorry that you don't realize that the Old Testament and the New Testament are talking about the same God. This is what happens when you don't study the Old Testament along with the New and understand what Jesus had to say about Old Testament scripture. He came to fulfill the scripture. He didn't condemn it.