Love vs Tyranny

reply to post by jmdewey60


So in your opinion, the Bible was first plagiarized, then revised to discredit the god that they stole from the pagans?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

So in your opinion, the Bible was first plagiarized, then revised to discredit the god that they stole from the pagans?

No, I think the Bible is misinterpreted by people who are still following weird doctrines from the Dark Ages.
The church was a political entity that resorted to murder and war and all sorts of cruelty, and for even just thinking "wrong", you could be killed, so they created an evil god by distorting the Bible in general and distorting Christian belief beyond recognition, and adding too much emphasis on the worst parts of the Old Testament, things even Jesus would not go along with.

reply to post by jmdewey60

No, I think the Bible is misinterpreted by people who are still following weird doctrines from the Dark Ages.
The church was a political entity that resorted to murder and war and all sorts of cruelty, and for even just thinking "wrong", you could be killed, so they created an evil god by distorting the Bible in general and distorting Christian belief beyond recognition, and adding too much emphasis on the worst parts of the Old Testament, things even Jesus would not go along with.

How can you distort a lie? The Bible is the world's greatest example of plagiarism. To distort it would serve one sole purpose: disguise its true origins. Hide the theft and pretend it never happened. Complete the cover-up and turn deception into truth.

Your claim requires that the Bible be true at some point in time. It never was.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Looking at some of the recent posts, (pgs no. 21-26) I would think respondees "that means you" have become a concerted Leprositic Entity that is overwhelming in its (unsupported by any fact other than my own reasoning) intent to derail the very clear concise arguements of the OP. I would not want to be Jesus (AfterInfinity) in this colony of parasitic arguementative attitudes demanding and re-demanding answers to those already given and well debated. Tiresome upon more Tiresome liturgy "WHAT?" obvious off topic MIND numbing brain freezes. Even Job could not cope with the LOT of you.

Now don't hold back, vethumanbeing! Wow, I have never been called part of a Leprositic Entity before! At least you capitalized Leprositic Entity so that makes me feel more special. And AfterInfinity is Jesus??? I really have missed the point of this thread if this is the case! What does Jesus, I mean, AfterInfinity have to say about this, I wonder...

Seriously, I didn't respond to your post earlier because I figured it would further derail the discussion between AI and jmdewey. However, I will respond now since your post actually seems to have killed the thread! Well, maybe not, but I was enjoying having someone so versed in the Bible and its origins engage in this discussion - and your accusation certainly did not invite further discussion.

Anyway, your post really came as a surprise to me. You didn't respond to my last post relative to our interesting (at least to me) discussion about the mind, point of view, perspective, etc.- even though you had been posting about these same matters several times. Instead I see this very strange post from you.

Anyway, I hope jmdewey returns, but if not, so be it. (This use of "so be it" seems to be catching on around here.)


*Note to self*
To kill a thread, accuse all respondees of becoming "a concerted Leprositic Entity that is overwhelming in its (unsupported by any fact other than my own reasoning) intent to derail the very clear concise arguements of the OP." And optionally, liken the OP to Jesus being crucified to amplify the effect.
*End of note to self*

Sorry, vethumanbeing, but your post just really made me laugh in some twisted way - I guess because it was so over the top! Yesterday, on a different thread, I was accused of being of the darkness because of my esoteric interpretations of some of Jesus' teaching. I gotta say, being called part of a Leprositic Entity was far more creative!

Can we get this thread back on topic? No one has managed to demonstrate to me where love and tyranny are separated, so far as spirituality or religion goes.

reply to post by bb23108


BB, this was not directed at YOU. I actually thought Afterinfinity wanted some frustation relief, never intentionally try to kill someone elses thread (that is just not right or possible), just maybe anesthetize for an hour or so for a well needed cat nap or regroup.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Can we get this thread back on topic? No one has managed to demonstrate to me where love and tyranny are separated, so far as spirituality or religion goes.

Maybe they are not separate. It is a tyrannical love, or love at is most tyrannifisistic, or more 'musically' and jesting;--TyRonic Love. What if love is actually not bleeding heart sentimentalism; but another force altogether that is a discription of a binder energyform existing between thoughtforms. Could go very wrong and be called hate (missidentified). Oh, that; the spirituality and religion thing does not apply at all as in their recognistion of love is also missidentified. better term would be 'the brotherhood of man' and displaying good will intents.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

 

 

Someone had to do it this thread has been off topic for 10 pages (thankyou).

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
BB, this was not directed at YOU. I actually thought Afterinfinity wanted some frustation relief, never intentionally try to kill someone elses thread (that is just not right or possible), just maybe anesthetize for an hour or so for a well needed cat nap or regroup.

Okay, I appreciate that, but you said pages 21 on, and since I was one of the main people disagreeing with AI in those pages, I had to figure I was one of the respondees. I also knew you were not trying to kill the thread, that was just a silly statement I made relative to your derailing accusation.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, vethumanbeing. Anyway, I don't really have anything more to say here, other than that.

reply to post by bb23108


I was there too on those pages; and sometimes I get tired of hearing myself think. There are some so very articulate arguements occuring; I wonder if ATS is going to become a publishing house of such. Did anyone recognise a secret signing of a disclaimer of YOUR content (distributed by you free) somewhere hidden in a microscopic agreement form?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

The Bible is the world's greatest example of plagiarism. To distort it would serve one sole purpose: disguise its true origins. Hide the theft and pretend it never happened. Complete the cover-up and turn deception into truth.

Your claim requires that the Bible be true at some point in time. It never was.

I think you are believing in another lie.
Rather than 'plagiarism', what may be causing that to appear to be the case, is a period in modern history, gong back a couple hundred years, where the propaganda being disseminated was that, there was this gulf between Judaism and Hellenistic culture back in the time of Christ.
Now that the counter-propaganda like the Zeitgeist video was gone into effect, then the observer is coaxed into believing a different myth.
The truth is somewhere in the middle, that the beliefs of the Jews were very much a part of the more general culture of the Hellenized Roman Empire, and had been for a long time, since there was a such thing as Hellenization.
There was no magic barrier between The Jews, and everyone else.
So it's not plagiarism but an honest sharing of ideas between people and the inevitable influence that has on people's ideas and beliefs.
I should also add that before that, there was an Egyptian influence on the idea of the divinity of kings, for example. The Land of Canaan, after all, was an Egyptian colony, basically, up until the peak of power of the Assyrian Empire.
A good book to read to get caught up with reality is:
King and Messiah as Son of God: Divine, Human, and Angelic Messianic Figures in Biblical and Related Literature, by Adela Yarbro Collins and John Collins.

reply to post by jmdewey60


It's not "sharing ideas" if you pervert those ideas for your own agenda, subsequently persecuting everyone who follows the belief systems from which you've taken those ideas.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

It's not "sharing ideas" if you pervert those ideas for your own agenda, subsequently persecuting everyone who follows the belief systems from which you've taken those ideas.

Do you realize that there are literally hundreds of different versions of the Isis, and Osiris story that have been discovered from ancient Egyptian writings?
There is no single "holy" version of myth that is sacrosanct that can't be bent to fit the user or the re-teller.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Do you realize that there are literally hundreds of different versions of the Isis, and Osiris story that have been discovered from ancient Egyptian writings?
There is no single "holy" version of myth that is sacrosanct that can't be bent to fit the user or the re-teller.

But the fact that these stories have existed previously proves that Christianity is not an original work, but an amalgamation. Whether or not there are multiple versions...Christianity is not the religion, it is a religion. It bears startling resemblance to previous belief systems, which explains my disturbed surprise that it still flourishes. But where past belief systems have at least admitted to gods not being far removed from human beings, Christianity has established a distant relationship - like a pen pal; all you have is letters.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

. . . all you have is letters.

I don't.
That's not "all" I have.
And, I don't have the same feeling of distance that you have, coming off from Christianity.
That was the whole idea, a communion between god and man, through Jesus.

reply to post by jmdewey60

I don't.
That's not "all" I have.
And, I don't have the same feeling of distance that you have, coming off from Christianity.
That was the whole idea, a communion between god and man, through Jesus.

Through one man. I have always felt that a concept shouldn't be defined in its entirety by just one example of such.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

. . . a concept shouldn't be defined in its entirety by . . .

It's not just a concept.
The thing that is the good news Gospel is that it is a historical event.
Supposedly, the concept was not a new one, but just was waiting for the fulfillment.
Jesus fulfilled it, with the "it" being Israel restored.
Now it didn't work out like that, the 'restoration', in a literal physical sense, but there was a 'choosing' going on in the world, which is what 'Israel' was, a calling to repentance and following God'd leading, into a better life.
We have that now and we all are, hypothetically at least, "chosen".
The path to acceptance and entering in, was made by Jesus and for us, the way to salvation, being the leader and undergoing all the trials and sufferings that we are subjected to and knowing sorrow, he has the remedy to all those things, being given the access to and the right to distribute the healing things from God, spiritual and material.

reply to post by jmdewey60

It's not just a concept.
The thing that is the good news Gospel is that it is a historical event.
Supposedly, the concept was not a new one, but just was waiting for the fulfillment.
Jesus fulfilled it, with the "it" being Israel restored.
Now it didn't work out like that, the 'restoration', in a literal physical sense, but there was a 'choosing' going on in the world, which is what 'Israel' was, a calling to repentance and following God'd leading, into a better life.

If it's not just a concept, why does it require belief? If it were so factual, why do so many people question it? It would be a fully documented phenomenon. But it isn't, is it? The Gospel is not nearly the same thing as fossils informing us that the plesiosaurus first emerged approximately 200 million years ago.

The path to acceptance and entering in, was made by Jesus and for us, the way to salvation, being the leader and undergoing all the trials and sufferings that we are subjected to and knowing sorrow, he has the remedy to all those things, being given the access to and the right to distribute the healing things from God, spiritual and material.

There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong. - Hindu proverb

It shouldn't matter what idol we bow to, or if we bow to any at all, as long as we live a decent life. There is more than one way to live with love and kindness. I had a discussion with someone yesterday after watching Cowboys and Aliens, and they said to me, "Gold is precious to God."

My response was, "Why? What does a god need with gold? He created it, he knows exactly how worthless it is. So now that we've inherited his fetish for sparkly stuff, we're more inclined to become addicted to stimuli. Stuff that appeals to our animal nature. How was that supposed to help us? Why not stories? Why aren't stories precious to him? Stories give us things that money never could. Inspiration, grief, joy, excitement, terror...and you learn about the truths in life. Stories are so much more conducive to our living experience."

The conversation didn't last long after that. But my point is, we give so much credit to the easy things in life, the stuff that soothes the burn of wars and shootings and legislative bullcrap, and we keep ourselves in a constant haze of stimulation. And that's what symbols do for us. A symbol, a concept, that as long as you believe it, will bring you emotional security so subtle that you don't even recognize it. You believe it's real, and so it is. The world is composed of electrical signals in your brain. Interpreted data. There's a program that is triggered by powerful patterns of subconscious stimulation, and it replicates the impressions it records, influencing our perception. Don't believe me? Look it up. It's science. Neurolinguistic programming - among other things, of course.

If we ever needed an idol, it should be nothing other than our dreams. What we want for us. Spent less time kissing your beloved deity's hindquarters, and more time giving it a reason to listen. And no, worship doesn't count. That shows you spend more time talking and less time doing. Doing what? Doing the right thing. If you are helping, you're doing the right thing.

To laugh often and love much:
To win respect of intelligent people
And the affection of children;
To earn the approbation of honest critics
And endure the betrayal of false friends;
To appreciate beauty;
To find the best in others;
To give one's self;
To leave the world a little better,
Whether by a healthy child,
A garden patch,
Or redeemed social condition;
To have played and laughed with enthusiasm
And sung with exultation;
To know even one life has breathed easier
Because you have lived...
This is to have succeeded.

- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Jesus gave himself far too much credit - if, in fact, he even said those words at all. Remember, he is mysteriously silent amid all the other people who had something to say about him. Surely he would want to tell his story?

Jesus is no more important to me that Matin Luther King or Ghandi or Mother Teresa. They all lived good lives, and they all marked the world. And they all provide just as much inspiration. But in the end, they all died. And their legacy lived on. That's how it should be. Die, and let the people value what you did and strive to keep it, instead of just sitting around and waiting for you to come back.

Bad decision, Jesus.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

. . . It would be a fully documented phenomenon. But it isn't, is it?

The phenomenon of the church and its continued existence is well known.

. . . you spend more time talking . . .

I don't know what all you think worship is supposed to involve. All I was saying is to recognize that there is a help from outside of ourselves that we need.

. . . he would want to tell his story . . .

He did, then it was written down, and we can read it today.

. . . just sitting around and waiting for you to come back.

That's not something I suggest people doing.