Love vs Tyranny

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posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 



The universe is pretty chaotic isn't it? But it also has order. What if the universe is God and we are God experiencing itself? I think that's the most simple answer because we experience the universe and are part of it. The universe gives us the opportunity to expand and become greater don't you think?


I think we are the elements that compose the subconscious of the universe. Heaven is the forefront of the "brain", the conscious awareness of the entire web, the point at which we are no longer individuals experiencing subjective awareness, but a mass entity experiencing the entirety of space and time in one eternal moment of total comprehensive reminiscence. And then the cycle begins anew.

In that sense, we are in fluctuating states of hell throughout our entire existence. But if people would seize hell as an opportunity to learn instead of an abhorrent condition of eternal negativity, then we might actually progress emotionally in addition to the material mastery we are so intent on.

And this brings me back to the premise - love vs tyranny. If we continue to worship and admire a god whose personality resembles an egomaniacal tyrant, then that is the model we will continue to emulate. This is where my concern comes to a head.




posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 04:39 PM
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God is love and his logic love's reason.

"Our liberation is God's compulsion."
~ C. S. Lewis



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by bb23108

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
What if mankind invented God to suite its own needs of subjugation, moral duplicity; to explain its own faults to fingerpoint and blame the supposed 'higher being' for the abandonment?
The collective ego of mankind certainly likes this position - it not only allows us to blame God, but to feel betrayed and abandoned by such a One too. It further ensures and reinforces the sense of self via apparently justified separation into unlove, betrayal, feelings of abandonment, etc.

Probably the single most asked question of God is - "Why did you let this happen?" So much easier to blame our Great Teddy Bear in the sky than to actually take real responsibility for everything arising in our lives. Of course there are terrible tragedies, but no such separate God is sitting around making them happen. Reality is far more profound than this ego-based conception of a Creator-God.


The second most single question asked is "can you fit us in with your busy schedule to possibly make a return visit, if so WHEN". We justify failures by our inablily to find our own creator. Is that the purpose? I realize having "faith" is the point. I have faith I will awaken tomorrow, but this is just over the top insanity; I must love a creator I am not sure exists other than the made up one I faithfullly trust exists. Can you at least help my stuffed Velveteen Rabbit transform itself into Warners Cartoon Bugs, then into a real live Bunny just in time for Easter.
edit on 8-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


You are that bunny, and that's the point of of faith, to revivify the spirit of man with the spirit of the universe (God consciousness).



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
And this brings me back to the premise - love vs tyranny. If we continue to worship and admire a god whose personality resembles an egomaniacal tyrant, then that is the model we will continue to emulate. This is where my concern comes to a head.
And your solution is for people to worship themselves, their minds?

How can our minds be trusted in terms of actually perceiving what is Reality given the mind is at best only one point of view in any given moment, and even then, by the time it perceives anything, thinks about it, etc., the moment is already past. The mind is always functioning in the past - it's history! And on top of that, it's going to be ripped away when the body-mind dies.

This is not to say that the mind should simply be somehow ignored or not functioning fully in terms of living in this physical plane - but to entrust it as the sole seat of our reality seems foolhardy to say the least!
edit on 8-3-2013 by bb23108 because:



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
I think we are the elements that compose the subconscious of the universe. Heaven is the forefront of the "brain", the conscious awareness of the entire web, the point at which we are no longer individuals experiencing subjective awareness, but a mass entity experiencing the entirety of space and time in one eternal moment of total comprehensive reminiscence. And then the cycle begins anew.

In that sense, we are in fluctuating states of hell throughout our entire existence. But if people would seize hell as an opportunity to learn instead of an abhorrent condition of eternal negativity, then we might actually progress emotionally in addition to the material mastery we are so intent on.

And this brings me back to the premise - love vs tyranny. If we continue to worship and admire a god whose personality resembles an egomaniacal tyrant, then that is the model we will continue to emulate. This is where my concern comes to a head.


The consciousness is the entirety, the mass awareness. It exists in totality through the human subconscious. It is us experiencing Itself or Us experiencing IT. Two completely different perspectives. We model the Tyrant as left to our own individual natures, (no glue holding anything together other than a vague concept of the Golden Rule). A major problem. God has no hormone producing glands (it has no material body), and as such does not understand emotion; my theory, we are all sacrifical experiments.
edit on 8-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


You are that bunny, and that's the point of of faith, to revivify the spirit of man with the spirit of the universe (God consciousness).


You You You have to figure the riddle out and spoil everything.



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 

No no no, I'm here to help bring the Velveteen Rabbit to life - then we're into the domain of absolute mystery.. but alive!



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
God is love and his logic love's reason.

"Our liberation is God's compulsion."
~ C. S. Lewis


Our liberation is Gods own liberation (experiencing itself through us); only way to accomplish it that makes any sense. All things are allowed from the most negative to the most positive; random occurance encouraged. Love is a powerful energyform, right up there with weak/strong force. Is recognising this a piece of the puzzle?



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by bb23108

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
And this brings me back to the premise - love vs tyranny. If we continue to worship and admire a god whose personality resembles an egomaniacal tyrant, then that is the model we will continue to emulate. This is where my concern comes to a head.
And your solution is for people to worship themselves, their minds?

How can our minds be trusted in terms of actually perceiving what is Reality given the mind is at best only one point of view in any given moment, and even then, by the time it perceives anything, thinks about it, etc., the moment is already past. The mind is always functioning in the past - it's history! And on top of that, it's going to be ripped away when the body-mind dies.

This is not to say that the mind should simply be somehow ignored or not functioning fully in terms of living in this physical plane - but to entrust it as the sole seat of our reality seems foolhardy to say the least!


You do not trust your own mind, it is very capable as to its ability to catalog and store and process everyone of your vast experiences. You have more neuraltransmitters in your brain than there are heavenly bodies within this universe. Trillions of communicating fibers storing information in particular parts of your brain. Reality is not what you think it is. It is not a 3d construct, this is a Movie Set at best; you have written the script are directing it and are starring in it. People worshiping/cherishing themselves, and other loved ones would be a start in keeping very difficult concepts simple.
edit on 8-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

. . . how can a god who created imperfection not withstand the presence of it? Why does a god who invented evil condemn the existence of it? Why does a god judge its creations for the design he himself devised?
I don't think any of those things need to be true.
This may be your perception of what God is, but it is based on what some people think, not on any sort of empirical data on the nature of God.

...is it too far-fetched to think that "God" might reach down and control events to suit his own agenda? Is it too far-fetched to think that at any given time, "God" might violate the gift of free will with impunity?
What makes you think there is a such thing as "free will".
There is nowhere in the Bible that says anything about free will, even though a lot of people who claim to know the Bible talk about free will as if it was a Christian doctrine.
It's not.

. . . no one entity should have all the power. It is too easy for that entity, especially one known to be prey to human emotions, to decide that the salvation of mankind falls to it and it alone, and to decide that the many must sacrifice their rights for the preservation of everything that entity deems to be good and holy.
Again, back to what I already said, even though some people think that is the situation with God, it doesn't somehow make it true.
God does not necessarily have all the power, and the Bible never says that He does.
edit on 8-3-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by vethumanbeing
You do not trust your own mind, it is very capable as to its ability to catalog and store and process everyone of your vast experiences. You have more neuraltransmitters in your brain than there are heavenly bodies within this universe. Trillions of communicating fibers storing information in particular parts of your brain.

Yes, the brain-mind is very complex and certainly a marvel - but does it actually have the capacity to witness Reality Itself? I am not talking about what we see or hear with our senses, because that is always changing. The only constant is beyond and prior to mind - and that is, Consciousness. All else rises and falls, while the mind tries to figure it all out.

This is like asking yourself about a mirror on your wall. What is the actual reflection in the mirror of the room in which it exists? No point of view of the mind can possibly account for and describe the ACTUAL reflection in your mirror, much less what the room actually looks like, and even less so with the cosmos.

The mind is a point-of-view machine that brings a sense of order to what is arising, and so serves various survival purposes. But this same mind does not and cannot know the actual Reality in which it arises. How could it? It can't even know what the actual reflection in the mirror looks like, much less the room itself.


Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Reality is not what you think it is. It is not a 3d construct, this is a Movie Set at best; you have written the script are directing it and are starring in it.
Yes, we certainly can play out our roles in this patterned life, as the pattern we tend to be - replicating pretty much the same thing each and every lifetime - until there is real understanding about the prior nature of Reality and Consciousness Itself. Only then can the illusion of mind begin to be undone.


Originally posted by vethumanbeing
People worshiping/cherishing themselves, and other loved ones would be a start in keeping very difficult concepts simple.
People loving one another is great and necessary. But worshiping another ego-I? That is what breeds all sorts of co-dependence, dysfunction, lack of discrimination, tyranny, betrayal - a whole soap opera of insanity, which is much of what the world of man is animating these days.



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 08:35 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 

It is hard to compare Christianity to Judaism since both believe in the old testament, but what if Christians ONLY believed in the New Testament, do you think a bigger difference would be seen?
Christians do "believe in" just the New Testament, and why they call the Jewish Bible, the Old Testament.
They do give a nod to the idea that there was an old covenant in effect, but they don't acknowledge that it was God who put it into effect.
Christianity takes off from the concepts expressed in that collection of books without being dependent on those things being described being actual history.
edit on 8-3-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2013 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Christianity began without the NT.
They wrote it very quickly on the spot, though perhaps not exactly in the form that we find it in today.
There was instant communication that went out far and wide, from the Apostles, that established the precepts of Christianity, with those being considered to be especially valid as truth based on the special spirit conferred onto them by Jesus, in person, for the express purpose of creating the church.

Just one of less information and lack of predictive prophecies. But the Christian position is one that we didn't choose Christ, that He chose us.
All the "predictive prophecies" of the Old Testament has met their fulfillment in the acts of Jesus, those committed by himself, and those by the church on his behalf.
The Apostles did not sit around feeling dependent on what the OT said, in order to know what was going to happen next, other than what had already started, continuing.
What you are doing is making the early Christians basically members of your cult that wasn't created until 200 years ago.

Christians for the most part don't see God as tyrannical.
"Most Christians" don't, because they don't "believe in" the OT God, they believe in the NT God, the father of Jesus, who they see also as God.
The members of your cult do "believe in" a tyrannical God, as witnessed by your attempts at defending Him.



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 

Thank you for your posts here. I am not sure why the OP has not responded yet, but he probably will. I think he may be out hunting still.



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



I don't think any of those things need to be true.
This may be your perception of what God is, but it is based on what some people think, not on any sort of empirical data on the nature of God.


Oh, is there empirical data? Because I sincerely doubt that any of the popular ideas of a god are based on it.


What makes you think there is a such thing as "free will".
There is nowhere in the Bible that says anything about free will, even though a lot of people who claim to know the Bible talk about free will as if it was a Christian doctrine.
It's not.


That's why I don't believe in the Judaic god. I believe in free will.


Again, back to what I already said, even though some people think that is the situation with God, it doesn't somehow make it true.
God does not necessarily have all the power, and the Bible never says that He does.


It does, actually. It says many times that he has power over all the universe. What else does that mean?



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

It does, actually. It says many times that he has power over all the universe. What else does that mean?
If you examine those verses closely, then you see that it doesn't, really.
I think the Dark Ages is when all those beliefs came around because classical religion that existed before that never thought that way,
No one believed that their god created the universe, and to think so would automatically make your god evil.
The Dark Ages gets that name for good reason and it was a time when the rulers liked the idea of an evil god, apparently.
We today need to reject those baseless myths and get back yo real Christianity that believes in a God who did the best with the universe as it is, however it came about.
"Created" meant to take the raw materials and to make something from them.
If "God created all things" it means everything good and useful to man came about by God's handiwork.
The universe itself was made before any of the gods existed, and they are like us, and we like them.
The material universe, according to classical religion, was made by basically non-persons who acted in a way analogous to the way that a certain part of a person would act.
edit on 9-3-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2013 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by bb23108
Yes, the brain-mind is very complex and certainly a marvel - but does it actually have the capacity to witness Reality Itself? I am not talking about what we see or hear with our senses, because that is always changing. The only constant is beyond and prior to mind - and that is, Consciousness. All else rises and falls, while the mind tries to figure it all out.


Consciousness, is the only thing that can interpret reality; also past present and future forms of; memory. The mind/brain is the functionary instrument.


bb23108[
This is like asking yourself about a mirror on your wall. What is the actual reflection in the mirror of the room in which it exists? No point of view of the mind can possibly account for and describe the ACTUAL reflection in your mirror, much less what the room actually looks like, and even less so with the cosmos.
The mind is a point-of-view machine that brings a sense of order to what is arising, and so serves various survival purposes. But this same mind does not and cannot know the actual Reality in which it arises. How could it? It can't even know what the actual reflection in the mirror looks like, much less the room itself.


The reflection of you and your surroundings in a mirror is two dimensional, just like a photograph; it is not stereoscopic--why is that.


bb23108Yes, we certainly can play out our roles in this patterned life, as the pattern we tend to be - replicating pretty much the same thing each and every lifetime - until there is real understanding about the prior nature of Reality and Consciousness Itself. Only then can the illusion of mind begin to be undone.
People loving one another is great and necessary. But worshiping another ego-I? That is what breeds all sorts of co-dependence, dysfunction, lack of discrimination, tyranny, betrayal - a whole soap opera of insanity, which is much of what the world of man is animating these days.


You are describing the Karmic Wheel. How to get off of the ride; by not incurring it and this requires some very tricky machinations. Basically, never ever let anyone manipulate you; and if you worship anything, you bought a lifetime ticket neverending ride on the Wheel.
edit on 9-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by vethumanbeing
The reflection of you and your surroundings in a mirror is two dimensional, just like a photograph; it is not stereoscopic--why is that.
Yes, but that is not what I was getting at. Consider what the room actually looks like. The brain-mind can only see it from one point of view in any given moment, and so can never know what the room ACTUALLY looks like in reality. Plus, by the time even the stimuli of this one point of view gets through the various neural pathways, the room will have already changed.

So the perceiving mind is always in the past, basically dealing with stimuli that are already memories. Given these inherent limits of the mind, Reality simply cannot ever be known by the mind. Give me one example in which you actually know what some thing IS.


Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Basically, never ever let anyone manipulate you; and if you worship anything, you bought a lifetime ticket neverending ride on the Wheel.
We are manipulated by endless elements including other beings - whether we like it or not, or know it or not. It is part of the price for appearing here in this realm of life, change, and death. We are in a vast sea of relatedness, not truly separate from anything, and many things impact us constantly.

As I said to AI, the only true worship is spontaneously done when Reality is tacitly recognized. The being immediately becomes surrendered to the infinite conscious light, love-bliss that Reality is. I agree, all other forms of so-called worship are just more of the same pattern - patterning endlessly.



posted on Mar, 10 2013 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I'm sorry, could you explain that more clearly? All of it.
edit on 10-3-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)





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