Question about Jesus

reply to post by mrperplexed


Have you not ever wondered if maybe you are to blame for being here? Why would you be here in this awful world.. at this time? Something you may have done to trap you here for one lifetime, maybe many?

Is anyone to blame?

Did you come here to experience creating in the material because you chose to? As in.... your choice before you were formed in this material world? A lot of ancient texts say we did, including Genesis.

Jesus is our collective story.. the sum of man's story. He is the first and last Adam.

Originally posted by ccseagull
reply to post by mrperplexed

 

God didn't have to rethink anything.

Satan is interfering and trying to take all souls with him - to steal us from God.

I have a child. I want my child to do the right things in life. Let me say that as much as I love my savior and I believe with my utmost that Jesus is real and that God is all knowing and all powerful that I want my child to be a believer too. However when she says she doesn't feel like saying her prayers I let her make that decision. It pains me but ultimately she has to make her own decision and I cannot make her believe in anything. This is a personal decision she has to make within her own being. I cannot make her do anything as otherwise I am taking away her RIGHT of freewill and God wants a genuine relationship. This is hard for people to understand because we are only human - God is our maker. By the way he could have just trashed us and said, "forget this" but he is fighting for us.

No I don't believe in other Gods because there is no evidence for them. And Satan is a counterfitter. I just hope for those who just can't believe or won't try to understand that when they see prophecy coming true, ie: destruction of Damascus, the two witnesses, the sudden disappearance of believers (which will include all children), the one money currency, the death of a world leader who suddenly comes alive again, the mark that will be imposed on the forehead/hand and the great tribulation - I truly hope that you will remember that these events were foretold and that Jesus is real and just wants you to believe in him.

God could reverse time, say poof* goodbye devil, and be done with all evil. Instead he lets humanity suffer. And saying God is fighting, implies he can lose? jeez his imperfect creation and the devil sure make Him look bad.

reply to post by mrperplexed


I am sorry that you have been hurt and lost your belief. I say that with genuine sadness. May I just say that yes I believe in the Bible. I don't understand the entire Bible and no one can. Maybe if God figures it matters any more, some day he will explain everything and we will understand it. I personally chose not to belong to any specific church because churches are man made organizations full of man's rules. I don't live and abide by man's rules - I live by love. I do what I think would make Jesus happy. A church is simply a group of believers but I refuse to belong to any organizational church. I have been to church and been ignored and seen people worship God in church and then act like they forgot for the rest of the week about their "church personality". Again, we are just human doing our best but personally I believe to love unconditionally. That is what Jesus did and I do my best to do the same. And when I screw up I ask for forgiveness and think about how I can do better next time. We Christians represent Jesus in all we do, think and say. And again we are not perfect so to expect us to be is unrealistic, however as Christians if we keep it simple and love and are guided by the Holy Spirit then we can have an intimate relationship with Christ and love each other even when others hurt us and offend us.

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by mrperplexed

 

Have you not ever wondered if maybe you are to blame for being here? Why would you be here in this awful world.. at this time? Something you may have done to trap you here for one lifetime, maybe many?

Is anyone to blame?

Did you come here to experience creating in the material because you chose to? As in.... your choice before you were formed in this material world? A lot of ancient texts say we did, including Genesis.

Jesus is our collective story.. the sum of man's story. He is the first and last Adam.

edit on 25-2-2013 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)

This would imply some type of reincarnation? Wouldnt simple math dictate that our population has grown since the dawn of time? Meaning whats to account for all the additional souls? (IF we are to take at face value birth is a predestined choice)

Originally posted by mrperplexed


No I meant why create something just to "worship" you. It seems egotistical. = imperfect

That's because you are not Him. You cannot understand His ways.

Interesting that one of my answers was an athiest talking point, I am not Athiest, I am agnostic.

Agnostic means you don't know if God exists or not. Everyone is either Agnostic or Gnostic when it comes to belief.

Atheist means you don't believe in any gods. Do you or don't you? Are you an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist?

Also, God has given me zero proof he exists, so how can he fault me for not believing?

Perhaps He has but you have just ignored it or missed it. Perhaps He puts people like those of us on this forum that you've interacted with in your path to be His proof? Perhaps we are His way of reaching out to you. And you are ignoring/rejecting it. When Judgment Day comes you won't be able to say you didn't know. I'm sure He has sent many people into your life.

How can he fault me if I choose one of the other 20 major religions, or 1000s of offshoots other than Christianity?

Because you made that choice out of your own free will.

Originally posted by ccseagull
reply to post by mrperplexed

 

I am sorry that you have been hurt and lost your belief. I say that with genuine sadness. May I just say that yes I believe in the Bible. I don't understand the entire Bible and no one can. Maybe if God figures it matters any more, some day he will explain everything and we will understand it. I personally chose not to belong to any specific church because churches are man made organizations full of man's rules. I don't live and abide by man's rules - I live by love. I do what I think would make Jesus happy. A church is simply a group of believers but I refuse to belong to any organizational church. I have been to church and been ignored and seen people worship God in church and then act like they forgot for the rest of the week about their "church personality". Again, we are just human doing our best but personally I believe to love unconditionally. That is what Jesus did and I do my best to do the same. And when I screw up I ask for forgiveness and think about how I can do better next time. We Christians represent Jesus in all we do, think and say. And again we are not perfect so to expect us to be is unrealistic, however as Christians if we keep it simple and love and are guided by the Holy Spirit then we can have an intimate relationship with Christ and love each other even when others hurt us and offend us.

I too started by realizing that Churches were not the way to know God. I found reading the bible to be uplifting, mind expanding, and left me awash in a good glowing feeling. Going to church it was easy to see how the message was dumbed down for the masses, and somewhat opinionated. I often found myself saying, "Thats not how I interperet that" thinking that my explanations were far more profound than what the church offered. I stopped going to church because I was told that I should stop hanging out with my non christian friends... I stopped believing in organized religion around the time of Zitgeist, and after studying the 100s of contradictions in the bible.. This doesnt mean I dont belive in a creator... just not one that is from an organized religion.

How can he fault me if I choose one of the other 20 major religions, or 1000s of offshoots other than Christianity?

Because you made that choice out of your own free will.


I take issue with this. I have a Muslim friend, and it is not a choice for her.

Originally posted by mrperplexed

I take issue with this. I have a Muslim friend, and it is not a choice for her.

Actually it is. I have a lot of Muslim friends also. Even if their religion, or the interpretation of it, is oppressive to her, she still has a choice. Even if she converts away from it in secret, it's still a choice.

To answer the athiest/agnostic question:

I believe in the possibility of a creator. - Something cant come from nothing.

I believe in evolution

I do not believe in any organized religion.

I believe if there is a creator of the universe, it is 100 percent different than any organized religion can tell us it is.

I believe that in all likelyhood, that if there is a creator, it has no idea that we exist.


Not sure what that makes me?

reply to post by mrperplexed


God could reverse time, say poof* goodbye devil, and be done with all evil. Instead he lets humanity suffer. And saying God is fighting, implies he can lose? jeez his imperfect creation and the devil sure make Him look bad.

God could but that would make Jesus' gift worthless. Jesus is God and when He came down to earth he gave us the ultimate gift. God can fight. Sure he can. He is fighting for us people. Fighting as in protecting us when people pray for us, to intervene in the way he figures is best when we need his help.He is fighting by having put a perfect system in place where all we have to do is believe in Jesus as our savior. God can't lose but when I say fight I mean he is allowing everyone an opportunity to know him, to choose him. At the same time the devil is putting barriers in our way, causing oppression and interfering with our lives. Because we have free will we can choose God or Satan. There is no in between. If you don't choose God then you HAVE chosen Satan. If one is arguing just for the sake of arguing their side and that their side is right then this is a dangerous tactic - and I am not accusing YOU of this. But I have seen this on ATS for some time. If you are geninuely asking because you really want to know then one needs to ask God to enter their life and help them understand. And so again it comes to free will. This is a word that is getting a beating lately because people really aren't contemplating the truth of what it implies: we choose God from our free will because we want him in our life. Or we choose not to have him our life. So people have already used their free will to not believe in God. God has given the devil an alloted time and during that time the devil wants to make sure he destroys us humans, not because the devil wants us to be his buddies or is a fun kind of guy - but because he despises us and wants us to be destroyed along with him. He knows his time is short.

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr

Originally posted by mrperplexed

I take issue with this. I have a Muslim friend, and it is not a choice for her.

Actually it is. I have a lot of Muslim friends also. Even if their religion, or the interpretation of it, is oppressive to her, she still has a choice. Even if she converts away from it in secret, it's still a choice.

You realize the only difference between you and I is that of all the 100s of religions out there I simply disbelieve in one more than you do. Thats it.

Originally posted by mrperplexed

I believe in the possibility of a creator. - Something cant come from nothing.

Then you are an agnostic theist or possibly an agnostic deist.

I do not believe in any organized religion.

Neither do I.

I believe that in all likelyhood, that if there is a creator, it has no idea that we exist.

Yeah, you sound like a Deist then.

Originally posted by mrperplexed


You realize the only difference between you and I is that of all the 100s of religions out there I simply disbelieve in one more than you do. Thats it.

Ahhh a variation on the atheist classic "I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one less god than you."

And you are wrong. I don't believe in any organized religions either. There's a big difference in believing in the teachings of the Bible and believing in modern-day Christianity (which in a lot of ways goes against what the Bible teaches)

reply to post by mrperplexed


I too started by realizing that Churches were not the way to know God. I found reading the bible to be uplifting, mind expanding, and left me awash in a good glowing feeling. Going to church it was easy to see how the message was dumbed down for the masses, and somewhat opinionated. I often found myself saying, "Thats not how I interperet that" thinking that my explanations were far more profound than what the church offered. I stopped going to church because I was told that I should stop hanging out with my non christian friends... I stopped believing in organized religion around the time of Zitgeist, and after studying the 100s of contradictions in the bible.. This doesnt mean I dont belive in a creator... just not one that is from an organized religion.


Unfortunately I also found the same thing: when I went to church I had a toned down blah kind of message and I would leave feeling like I just sat through a tv rerun. Unfortunately a lot (not all) of preachers don't even believe the message they are supposed to be sharing. Most don't even believe in the upcoming tribulation, etc. Some lose their faith but it is the only job they know. Some have lost their faith and are struggling just like so many people are. And what I particularly didn't like was the message that I am a bad person. Yes I am but we have been forgiven. And I did not like the church for saying that my gay friends were evil. They have no right to call anyone evil - God is our judge, not our fellow man. Well perhaps you still believe in God but not mankind's God. I am not trying to change your mind or convert you, I'm just wondering if that belief is still there. It sounds like you lost your faith based on what man was saying. I have watched the zietgist movie.Again - I see factual evidence in history and artifacts. The fact that the Dead Sea scrolls are word for word as written in the Bible - what other religion has evidence like this? You should check out Ron Wyatt and his Ark of the Covenant finding. He also has found evidence in the Red Sea of chariot wheels and horse leg bones and so much more. It is fascinating finding physical evidence of Biblical history. Myself it helps that I know the devil is trying to copy everything God has ever done. And why can't we believe in evolution? Creatures adapt to their environment. I believe chickens came from dinosaurs. Why can't creation and evolution go hand in hand? Although I did not come from a monkey, ha ha. Why can't chimpanzes have 99% of human dna but still be a separate species? It does not mean we came from the ape family.

Well I am off to bed. Perhaps we'll chat more tomorrow. Nighty night. And take care.

Originally posted by ccseagull
reply to post by mrperplexed

 

Because we have free will we can choose God or Satan. There is no in between. If you don't choose God then you HAVE chosen Satan.

I don't choose either. I dont believe I have to choose one or the other. Wouldnt my freewill give me the choice to believe in neither?

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr

Originally posted by mrperplexed


You realize the only difference between you and I is that of all the 100s of religions out there I simply disbelieve in one more than you do. Thats it.

Ahhh a variation on the atheist classic "I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one less god than you."

And you are wrong. I don't believe in any organized religions either. There's a big difference in believing in the teachings of the Bible and believing in modern-day Christianity (which in a lot of ways goes against what the Bible teaches)

Lazarus, I just starred you. Reading the Bible is what made me a Christian - Church is what stripped me of my faith.

Originally posted by mrperplexed


I don't choose either. I dont believe I have to choose one or the other. Wouldnt my freewill give me the choice to believe in neither?

Of course you have the choice to believe in neither, but just because you don't believe in Satan doesn't mean that he doesn't exist. And if you are not aligning yourself with God then you are aligning yourself with Satan. Plain and simple. Do you think on Judgment Day you will be able to say to God, "Well yeah I didn't choose you but I didn't choose Satan either"? That's not gonna be acceptable. You turned your back on Him regardless. You are violating the law. Just because there's a set punishment for breaking His law that doesn't mean you don't have a choice. Just like you have a choice to obey man-made laws. Just because you know there's a penalty for breaking man-made laws doesn't mean you don't have a choice to obey them or not.

Originally posted by mrperplexed

Lazarus, I just starred you. Reading the Bible is what made me a Christian - Church is what stripped me of my faith.

Thank you. And I totally understand. The church has ruined the Bible and/or faith for a lot of people. It's a shame. And those people will be judged also. But you can't let their actions affect your eternity. Everyone is still accountable for their own actions and decisions.

Originally posted by ccseagull
reply to post by Prisoner60863

 

Jesus came to earth in human form as a complete human. He endured the same temptations we all do. And this is why Jesus knows our own suffering, over and above his all knowing. He lived as us.The only thing is that he was a perfect man and so did not sin. And because he was perfect he was able to stand in our place on the cross while God distanced himself from Jesus to see if he was worthy enough. At that moment on the cross God took into account every sin ever and placed it on Jesus. Jesus was worthy enough and he physically died on the cross. But 3 days later he rose again. I hope that helps. Jesus is the bridge for us to access God. All we have to do is believe in Jesus and accept what he did for us and we are forgiven and accepted into the eternal kingdom of God.

Great answer, but it brings up a question... if Jesus was tempted, then that means that he would have actually thought about committing a sin... regardless on whether or not he acted on those thoughts, thinking about it is sinful. For example... I am married, but if I happen to see an attractive woman somewhere and have a sexual thought about her then I have committed a sin, even though I did not act on that thought.

Originally posted by LazarusTsiyr

Originally posted by mrperplexed


I don't choose either. I dont believe I have to choose one or the other. Wouldnt my freewill give me the choice to believe in neither?

Of course you have the choice to believe in neither, but just because you don't believe in Satan doesn't mean that he doesn't exist. And if you are not aligning yourself with God then you are aligning yourself with Satan. Plain and simple. Do you think on Judgment Day you will be able to say to God, "Well yeah I didn't choose you but I didn't choose Satan either"? That's not gonna be acceptable. You turned your back on Him regardless. You are violating the law. Just because there's a set punishment for breaking His law that doesn't mean you don't have a choice. Just like you have a choice to obey man-made laws. Just because you know there's a penalty for breaking man-made laws doesn't mean you don't have a choice to obey them or not.

How is it Justif I live my life better and in less sin than Christian A, B, and C however simply because they "believe" they make it to Heaven and I dont? By that theory, Adolph Hitler, being a "Christian" will have an eternity of Heaven and I wont?