Is there any better argument against intelligent design that the human mouth/teeth?

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posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by Darkphoenix77
 
Yes, I believe that there are somewhere around 80 or 90 known recorded versions of the Flood Myth.
The funny thing is that large number of them have the same basic concepts of a small group escaping with animals and landing on a mountain...




posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 01:41 AM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by defcon5
 

And you know this as a fact...how?

Well if you are a Christian, and you have a proper understanding of the Bible, then its pretty clear what the message here is. Throughout the Bible, in both old and new Testament, this world is mentioned as being under the rule of Satan. That he is the “prince” of this world. That we are subject to that condition from having chosen not to be under Gods grace.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by Darkphoenix77
 
Yes, I believe that there are somewhere around 80 or 90 known recorded versions of the Flood Myth.
The funny thing is that large number of them have the same basic concepts of a small group escaping with animals and landing on a mountain...



Kinda hard to write that off as nothing more than coincidence regardless if it is ET intervention or what have you.....

Maybe our ancestors came up with the concepts of "Gods" as a way to explain the things they did not understand (ET's) and had no other way of explaining. Who is to say the Ark was even a boat?



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 01:54 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
If we gave lateral examples of parents and children on Earth. Children "falling short in the parents eyes", and receiving an enduring and seemingly permanent punishment, that consequence would be viewed as a grudge.

First off...You're measuring God by mans ruler, which will not work.

More importantly...
Lets say that you tell your child not to play with their fathers band-saw. The child disobeys and ends up losing a hand.
Is that the parents fault? Nope...
Is the parent “holding a grudge”? Nope...
Now, extending us a chance at grace again would be akin to giving that child a prosthetic hand.
Make sense?


Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
Assuming this is true, this would only apply to the people that heard the Good News. Of course thousands upon thousands upon thousands never did, yet still suffered the consequence of the "fall from Grace".

It offers us salvation, it does not rescue you from the “law” & consequence of this world.
This world will end sometime in the next “day” (1000 years), IMHO, as I said God does things in 7's. At that point this world will pass away, and all that crap and “law” that went with it will be over.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:00 AM
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Originally posted by Darkphoenix77
Maybe our ancestors came up with the concepts of "Gods" as a way to explain the things they did not understand (ET's) and had no other way of explaining. Who is to say the Ark was even a boat?

Of the many topics here to debate over, that is the one that is impossible to really argue with....
Angles..vs..Aliens

I guess simply because the story can fit each the same, and so it really comes down to a matter of faith.
If you want to get all technical about it. God doesn't come from Earth, he created Earth, so he's not an "earthling"...

Take that as you will, but I personally chose to have faith in a God.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:02 AM
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This is a common problem when dealing with followers they all seem to pick and choose what to believe in the bible when it suits them such as free will yet another follower will proclaim miracles sorry but you can’t have it both ways either there is free will or god intervened please pick one and stick with it. It doesn’t help that the Abrahamic bible can probably contradict itself on every single point.

Oh and as far as wars go it is self-evident if you ever read the bible it is full of war murder rape incest and a dozen other things that would get you thrown in prison now. The greatest compilation of evidence proving that the bible is nonsense would be the bible itself.

I would like to know which god each of you follow sometimes I lose track of course you know the bible itself names more than one god I think I counted 14 last time I checked so which one is the one that is in style now.

I don’t even know how this thread devolved into talking about the validity of bible passages no one can even show evidence of intelligent design let alone a biblical god. When someone claims to have the answers or in this case know what god actually meant in the bible my ears do this funny thing, they kind of restrict the current it is an evolutionary trait passed down through my family we call them bulls#it flaps. I am now evolving something similar with my eyes reading some of this stuff.

Beware of those who claim to have answers but pay attention to those who have questions.

It seems followers have the worst or best selective memory when subjects like these appear depending how you see it. I hope this thread can return to the realm of sanity were evidence and proof are a good thing. If not I am declaring myself as god and condemning you all to hell for 30 minutes or until I change my mind whichever comes first after all I am god I can do anything.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by Darkphoenix77
 


That is a good argument, it is hard to believe in the "righteousness" of a being that allows atrocities to happen without intervention. Is that something we should question or a test of faith? Is the supreme being even a god? It is just as likely that it is just an entity that we cannot fathom at all. Some of the things that happen in the religious texts do not exactly lend credence to the notion that it is an all loving "God" for sure. All I know is I believe that the creation of the universe is something I cannot reconcile as being a random event....

Well for the record I am a Deist. I believe in a 'Creator'. I also more or less believe in the 'religious predicates'. Omnipresence and omniscience and omnipotence as descriptions of its eternal nature and ability to create with intention. Omnipotence in our physical Universe only insofar as the act of the initial conditions. Omni-benevolence is a tricky one. Just as it is nearly impossible to imagine infinity, it is equally alien to imagine we would know what love and compassion means to the Creator of all existence. This is crude and quite lame description of what I believe. I don't claim it as absolute truth unlike many religious.

As it pertains to religion. Lack of evidence the Bible is connected with that divinity, coupled with how contrary it seems to be towards our human understanding of love and compassion, is the nature of my opposition believing this is actually divinely inspired.

We should I feel fully appreciate our limitations, especially in respect to eternity, but I wouldn't say we shouldn't try our hardest to understand any ways. Whether that's attempting to understand God or other seemingly incomprehensible things. Just that we should be cautious when we think we've discovered some absolute ultimate truth. Which is what the Bible proclaims to have captured. Question everything. If God bestowed free-will it was surely blessing us with that mandate.

We should believe whatever we want and feel compelled to do so. Believe in secrets and believe in discovery. Believe in magic
But we should not forgo what we intuitively understand as loving and good, and any aspects of faith that seem in disagreement should surely test the faith. So yes to that question imo. And never think questioning ones beliefs is wrong. Questioning and consciousness seem to go hand in hand. Surely we were given it for a reason. Surely that reason was not to give it up and let any particular book do the thinking for us.

Sorry if I went on a bit of a tangent.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


Basically you just described Mormonism.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:04 AM
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Is this the thread where the high schoolers hang out...omg blah blah prove me wrong. Blah blah you can't prove me wrong i win. Praise jesus



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:05 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 



First off...You're measuring God by mans ruler, which will not work.

That's only true if the Bible is God's book. Otherwise, if in fact it is a human one, it is man's ruler that is measuring God.


It offers us salvation, it does not rescue you from the “law” & consequence of this world.

You misunderstand. I meant it literally. Physically speaking there are people that literally never heard this 'Good News'. Never new the way to salvation. Yet, they suffered the consequences of earlier people 'falling from Grace'.
edit on 26-2-2013 by Lucid Lunacy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:05 AM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 


Basically you just described Mormonism.

Unless I am recalling incorrectly he is a Mormon.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:09 AM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 
There are lots of ancient astronaut theories that do not involve Mormon theology...
There is more to the Mormons then just believing God is an “alien” anyway.
Beyond that, I am simply being truthful here, there is no way to win that argument one way or the other, and it simply comes to a viewpoint based on faith. Like it or not, God doesn't come from Earth, now does that make him an “Alien”, well not in my opinion, at least not the way that we think of “Aliens”. To me he is God regardless of were he comes from, and he reigns over all of creation, which would include any “aliens” out there. However, its nearly impossible to argue that point with someone of the opposite “belief”.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


Me...
No, no, no....
Lutheran.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:13 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Grimpachi
 


Basically you just described Mormonism.

Unless I am recalling incorrectly he is a Mormon.


That explains so much.


This is the pattern I am seeing.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:15 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


Me...
No, no, no....
Lutheran.

And here I pride myself with having good memory


Ahh I was thinking Dragon Demise? Or some name like that. Hmmm



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:21 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77
Maybe our ancestors came up with the concepts of "Gods" as a way to explain the things they did not understand (ET's) and had no other way of explaining. Who is to say the Ark was even a boat?

Of the many topics here to debate over, that is the one that is impossible to really argue with....
Angles..vs..Aliens

I guess simply because the story can fit each the same, and so it really comes down to a matter of faith.
If you want to get all technical about it. God doesn't come from Earth, he created Earth, so he's not an "earthling"...

Take that as you will, but I personally chose to have faith in a God.


Hey man that's cool by me, I have no place nor desire to prove your beliefs as false. We all gotta believe in something, there is no way I can say "No man, you are wrong!" because the simple fact is what I believe is in no way superior to what you believe. I think it is fair to say that a supreme being created the universe in my opinion, and prolly decided to sit back and watch it all unfold. I do believe in the concepts of good and evil, and also believe in beings that exist to spread the influence of both.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:25 AM
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reply to post by Lucid Lunacy
 


Nah don't worry about going off on a tangent, I find the discussion interesting.
I really can't find anything to argue against with what you said.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:26 AM
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Originally posted by ninjamikec
Is this the thread where the high schoolers hang out...omg blah blah prove me wrong. Blah blah you can't prove me wrong i win. Praise jesus


My high school years left me a looooong loooong time ago



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Grimpachi
 


Basically you just described Mormonism.

Unless I am recalling incorrectly he is a Mormon.


That explains so much.


This is the pattern I am seeing.



Okay, I gave you a star for amusement factor...even with my own beliefs I found the humor in that.

I also find humor in George Carlin's "There is no God" skit.



posted on Feb, 26 2013 @ 02:43 AM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
This is a common problem when dealing with followers they all seem to pick and choose what to believe in the bible when it suits them such as free will yet another follower will proclaim miracles

I don't cherry pick at all, I have no issue with anything that is written in the Bible, and if you know me at all from the site, I also have no problems at all with science. I don't have a problem because the two peacefully coexist to me, and I don't have an agenda to try and disprove one or the other.

Lets be honest here, threads like this really do have an agenda behind them, and that agenda is to pick on Christians because someone has a grudge against them. And maybe that grudge is earned by the fact that there are a lot of pompous asses out there, who consider themselves better then everyone else, and call themselves Christians. In reality though, most of them are not really “Christian”, as the first thing that a Christian should realize is that we are not better then anyone else, we have simply accepted salvation. The Bible itself even addressed this issue specifically several times. However, with that said, I hope you realize that ALL religions have a creation mythos not just Christianity... Including those who make a “religion” of science.


Originally posted by Grimpachi
sorry but you can’t have it both ways either there is free will or god intervened please pick one and stick with it.

Freewill. I don't believe that I ever said otherwise. When God does act, he does so through the laws that he set up that run the universe... And... We go back to the topic of Catastrophism...


Originally posted by Grimpachi
Oh and as far as wars go it is self-evident if you ever read the bible it is full of war murder rape incest and a dozen other things that would get you thrown in prison now.

First off, I should point out that this is all Old Testament stuff...
Anyway, there is another concept that is very clearly stated in the Bible, which may help you understand some of what your asking. Predestination...
Romans 9:


16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory


Originally posted by Grimpachi
The greatest compilation of evidence proving that the bible is nonsense would be the bible itself.

And yet men of the cloth are some of the most highly educated people throughout history. Yet you claim they all believe in nonsense?

Originally posted by Grimpachi
I would like to know which god each of you follow sometimes I lose track of course you know the bible itself names more than one god I think I counted 14 last time I checked so which one is the one that is in style now.

You got me there, no such stuff in the bible unless you are referring to some titles of God or something.





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