Paul: Rome's version of the Trojan Horse

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Sure, because Paul could have NEVER gotten a hold of some of Jesus' teachings while he was murdering his followers, right? You are completely ignoring the possibility of Paul being a fraud even when the evidence points toward it.

Also, just because I believe in Jesus in a different way than you doesn't mean I deserve eternal torture. Or does it?


ETA: If to know Jesus is to know yourself (I agree 100% with that) then what makes you think we aren't equal with him? You're doublethinking again.

If the Son is all of us, then why do you believe the term includes Jesus alone? Didn't I say something about us all being the "Son" that Paul was speaking of in one of his epistles? Didn't you reject that notion? So why are you agreeing with it now? Doublethinking again I see.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Sure, because Paul could have NEVER gotten a hold of some of Jesus' teachings while he was murdering his followers, right? You are completely ignoring the possibility of Paul being a fraud even when the evidence points toward it.

Also, just because I believe in Jesus in a different way than you doesn't mean I deserve eternal torture. Or does it?

edit on 16-2-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

ETA: If to know Jesus is to know yourself (I agree 100% with that) then what makes you think we aren't equal with him? You're doublethinking again.

If the Son is all of us, then why do you believe the term includes Jesus alone? Didn't I say something about us all being the "Son" that Paul was speaking of in one of his epistles? Didn't you reject that notion? So why are you agreeing with it now? Doublethinking again I see.

edit on 16-2-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Consider the words of Enoch:

104.10 And now I know this mystery; that many sinners will alter and
distort the words of truth, and speak evil words, and lie, and concoct great
fabrications, and write books in their own words.

Is it possible Enoch was referring to Paul here? Could it even be he was speaking of Matthew, Mark, Luke or John? I don't think so myself. I see a unified message of Mercy and Grace on mankind. I see Adam as the ultimate redeemer, as well as the one in error at the beginning. The mystery of God was revealed in Christ, the one given over from the foundation.

If Paul was an enemy of Christ, his message would have been the Pagan Mysteries and geared toward the Babylon system of Rome. Instead, we find him working against that system. The Pagan Mysteries are the partially taught mysteries given to those who were fallen from Genesis 6. Enoch calls them the watchers. We know them as fallen angels. Consider what Enoch said.

106.19 But after this, there will be yet greater iniquity than that which was
committed on the earth before. For I know the mysteries of the Holy Ones,
for the Lord showed them to me and made them known to me, and I read
them in the Tablets of Heaven.

On the side of Enoch, we follow the thread of truth through Jacob and finally Jesus, the Word of the Mysteries. Enoch knew this mystery from both Adam and Heaven.

103.1 And now I swear to you, the righteous, by His Great Glory and His
Honour, and by His Magnificent Sovereignty, and by His Majesty: - I
swear to you that I understand this mystery.

103.2 And I have read the Tablets of Heaven and seen the writing of the
Holy Ones. And I found written and engraved in it, concerning them, that
all good, and joy, and honour, have been made ready, and written down, for
the spirits of those who died in righteousness.

Consider Paul and his afflictions, imprisonment and his suffering for the message he gave. Does this reflect what we read below? Consider what Enoch told the Watchers about the Mystery they knew:

16.3 "You were in Heaven but its secrets had not yet been revealed to you;
and a worthless mystery you knew. This you made known to women, in
the hardness of your hearts. And through this mystery the women and the
men cause evil to increase on the Earth."
16.4 Say to them therefore: "You will not have peace."

Did Paul have peace? Yes. Read his words:

Philippians 4:12

I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.

Paul is a man of God. Nothing less.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


So all the pagan holidays and pagan themes in the bible, especially Acts, doesn't point to Paul gearing them toward pagans? Come on! The OP and subsequent posts are FULL of pagan themes and names! What do you mean it wasn't geared towards pagans?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by WhoKnows100

 

It is unfair! Tell me, how does 75-80 years on this planet equal to forever in hell? How is that fair? How do they even compare?

To throw someone in a cell and throw away the key is unfair, completely unfair. I thought god was supposed to be fair? So how does 75-80 years equal eternal torture?

God is so holy and so unfathomably majestic that being in His presence would cause us to feel like we were on fire. Being in Heaven forever would be torment to us...unless we became a part of Him. And that only happens through the redemptive work of Christ.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

So all the pagan holidays and pagan themes in the bible, especially Acts, doesn't point to Paul gearing them toward pagans? Come on! The OP and subsequent posts are FULL of pagan themes and names! What do you mean it wasn't geared towards pagans?

The Gospel was often geared towards pagans. Paul quotes Epimenidis in Acts 17:28 and from Aratus in Acts 17:29 (both of whom are pagan prophets writing about Zeus) Paul quotes Cretan prophets in Titus 1:12-13. .

The point is, Christianity sometimes offers Jesus Christ as the solution for what the audience is looking for. It's marketing.

"I become all things to all men, so that I might lead some to Christ," 1 Cor 9;22

The "pagan holidays" you speak of are not in the Bible-BTW. Those were appropriated later.

reply to post by Snsoc

God is so holy and so unfathomably majestic that being in His presence would cause us to feel like we were on fire. Being in Heaven forever would be torment to us...unless we became a part of Him. And that only happens through the redemptive work of Christ.

How can this be true if we are, supposedly, created in the image of this god and "he" is supposed to be our "father."

How can a child feel burning torture being in the company of its father? That makes no sense.

reply to post by windword



Because we're fallen.

Not everyone are the children of God. "You are of your father, the devil," Jesus said-to the people of God! (John 8:44)

Originally posted by Snsoc
reply to post by windword

 

Because we're fallen.

Does that mean you believe that I sinned before I was born? Is this life, then, a punishment, a second chance or hell?

Not everyone are the children of God. "You are of your father, the devil," Jesus said-to the people of God! (John 8:44)

So why did Paul bother trying to be "all thing to all people" if so many are of their father, the devil?

Have you been given the gift of discernment of who's daddy is who's? Why are there 2 fathers of the people of planet Earth, if there is only one "God the Father"?

Does that mean you believe that I sinned before I was born? Is this life, then, a punishment, a second chance or hell?

I don't know how it's possible that you could have. The Church teaches that because Adam sinned, all people are fallen, but I can't get my head around that. Maybe we're not truly fallen until we're old enough to make moral choices and we make that first choice we know is wrong.

So why did Paul bother trying to be "all thing to all people" if so many are of their father, the devil?

So they might accept the message and no longer be of the devil, but adopted into the family of God.

Have you been given the gift of discernment of who's daddy is who's?

No. We're talking about spiritual fathers here. It's a metaphor. There is only one begotten son (John 3;16)

Why are there 2 fathers of the people of planet Earth, if there is only one "God the Father"?

God the Father is a term invented at the Council of Nicea, I think. I will get back to you on that, as I am not a theologian.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

So all the pagan holidays and pagan themes in the bible, especially Acts, doesn't point to Paul gearing them toward pagans? Come on! The OP and subsequent posts are FULL of pagan themes and names! What do you mean it wasn't geared towards pagans?

Show me three examples of Paul using a pagan theme or mentioning a holiday. Two? How about even one?

reply to post by EnochWasRight


You're right, I can't, but that doesn't take away the fact that Christianity (the same one Paul founded) is full of pagan symbolism, including stories in the bible.

John the Baptist' s birth starts off with Zecharia burning incense. Burning incense was what Egyptians did while worshiping their gods, they also burned it and used myrrh while preparing bodies for the afterlife. That coincides with the three wise men (pagan) bringing Jesus frankincense and myrrh.

John the Baptist's death is preceded by Salome dancing for Herod. There were many rituals that involved dancing in paganism. That's only a few of the examples, I could pull up many more if I need to.

reply to post by Snsoc


The father that you worship is Yahweh, the mass murderer. Jesus was not the son of Yahweh, he was the Son of a much greater Father than Yahweh, which is why Jesus never mentioned him by name.

Yahweh was not love like Jesus, no he is Satan who stole the role of Jesus' true father.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

You're right, I can't, but that doesn't take away the fact that Christianity (the same one Paul founded) is full of pagan symbolism, including stories in the bible.

John the Baptist' s birth starts off with Zecharia burning incense. Burning incense was what Egyptians did while worshiping their gods, they also burned it and used myrrh while preparing bodies for the afterlife. That coincides with the three wise men (pagan) bringing Jesus frankincense and myrrh.

John the Baptist's death is preceded by Salome dancing for Herod. There were many rituals that involved dancing in paganism. That's only a few of the examples, I could pull up many more if I need to.

edit on 17-2-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-2-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

I explained this to you. It's a reflection of the partial mystery taught to the fallen Angles. Paganism is the Mystery School. This IS the partial mystery mentioned by Enoch. The Bible is the thread of truth revealing this mystery. Yes, the symbols must be the same. The reasoning of those symbols is hidden within the stories of the Bible. For instance, 1 Kings 17 reveals the truth behind John the Baptist as Elijah. It reveals what Dew and water mean to baptism. Further, it reveals why Matthew 3 showed the "Experts" in the law how they could repent. It also reveals the mystery behind "you must be born again." Check my threads for this mystery. 1 Kings 17. One of the largest secrets of all mysteries held within the pages of the Biblical texts. You cannot take Paul out of this. He is a reflecting point between the two worlds, just as Moses was required to be schooled in Hermetic truth from Egypt. You cannot take one from the other. Both as reflections of the same story.

Enoch

16.3 "You were in Heaven but its secrets had not yet been revealed to you;
and a worthless mystery you knew. This you made known to women, in
the hardness of your hearts. And through this mystery the women and the
men cause evil to increase on the Earth."
16.4 Say to them therefore: "You will not have peace."

The Theosophic Mystery School is the worthless mystery. If you read my threads, I reveals many elements of the true mystery that are held in the Bible. Again, Paul is central to this. He was immersed in both worlds. When his mind was awoken, he knew the significance. He saw the light. It changed him, just as the text admits. Enlightenment can do this to you.

It's called PERIPETEIA.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


So now you agree with the pagan mysteries? Didn't you JUST ask me to provide proof that Paul mentioned paganism in order to further YOUR case? Looks like you did a 180 real quick and switched to my side.... weird.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

So now you agree with the pagan mysteries? Didn't you JUST ask me to provide proof that Paul mentioned paganism in order to further YOUR case? Looks like you did a 180 real quick and switched to my side.... weird.

If you had read my previous responses, you would have see that I mentioned this about Enoch. Agreeing with you say? Again, are you reading what I am writing? I called it the same as Enoch did--worthless. I see your intent here and will not participate in it any further. I've given you the correct answer. Do with it what you want.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


No, I am reading your posts which is why I'm finding these holes in your theory.

First you said this:

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
If Paul was an enemy of Christ, his message would have been the Pagan Mysteries and geared toward the Babylon system of Rome.

So anything that is of the Pagan Mysteries is against Christ, right? You said it right there. So why did you end up saying this:

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
The Bible is the thread of truth revealing this mystery.

You were speaking of the Pagan Mysteries when you said this.

So tell me, if an enemy of Christ would teach the Pagan Mysteries, then how is the bible not the enemy of Christ? It's FULL of pagan symbolism, and you agree! What givers here? You've GOT to see the contradiction, it's there for everyone to see.

16.3 "You were in Heaven but its secrets had not yet been revealed to you;
and a worthless mystery you knew. This you made known to women, in
the hardness of your hearts. And through this mystery the women and the
men cause evil to increase on the Earth."
16.4 Say to them therefore: "You will not have peace."

That sounds a lot like Earth doesn't it? We haven't had peace in a LONG time.Evil has been increasing throughout history. Why? Because of this "worthless mystery" Enoch is talking about. Christianity is the biggest religion in the world! I'm sure you won't see the connection though, that's what happens when your heart has been "hardened".

I looked up the origins of your word peripetaea.

From Ancient Greek περιπέτεια, ultimately from περί ("round, around, about") + the stem of πίπτω ("to fall").

Source

So it's a stem of a word meaning "to fall". Didn't you just say that the Pagan Mysteries were taught by the fallen? You also agree that the bible incorporated these pagan mysteries into its stories. Is it coming to you yet?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

No, I am reading your posts which is why I'm finding these holes in your theory.

First you said this:

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
If Paul was an enemy of Christ, his message would have been the Pagan Mysteries and geared toward the Babylon system of Rome.

Paul's message is not the Babylonian version. Just as I stated, he is not on the side of Esau, which is what you are implying. He is on the side of Jacob. The mystery revealed by the thread running from Abraham is the true mystery given to mankind, not taken. The Babylonian Pagan version is the worthless version, just as I stated. You are listening, but do not have the correct perspective to understand. Like I said, you are creating your own pretext of what I am saying.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
The Bible is the thread of truth revealing this mystery.

You were speaking of the Pagan Mysteries when you said this.

So tell me, if an enemy of Christ would teach the Pagan Mysteries, then how is the bible not the enemy of Christ? It's FULL of pagan symbolism, and you agree! What givers here? You've GOT to see the contradiction, it's there for everyone to see.

Pulling a sentence must define what "THIS" references. "THIS" is the true mystery revealed by Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Like I said, you are intentionally twisting this to your own pretext, which is deception or simple ignorance of what you are reading. If you wish to discuss this, please keep your pretext connected to your own words and read mine more carefully.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


How is the bible not the enemy of Christ if it teaches the Pagan Mysteries? You're running yourself in circles.

Paul was a citizen of this "Babylonian" Rome. Rome is the one who published Paul's teachings into the bible. The bible contains pagan mysteries.... you still can't make that connection can you?

Your argument is that Paul didn't teach the pagan mysteries when he did. He taught about a god who died and rose from the dead, that is a pagan theme. Dionysus and Bacchus were pagan deities who died only to rise from the dead, just like Jesus supposedly did!

Even if Paul didn't teach pagan mysteries, the bible still does! You agree with that, right? Of course, you said so yourself.