Paul: Rome's version of the Trojan Horse

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posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 12:10 AM
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reply to post by Snsoc
 


And what proof does anyone have that Jesus knew the exact moment or day? Does he ever state a timeline? No, only a sequence of events that are the natural evolution of a planet like Earth where religion is at the forefront of most of history. Where people disrespect Mother nature and each other, killing one another and cutting down huge areas of trees to lay down concrete which kills the grass. We have replaced natural living with artificial living, having more love for the next Iphone than our natural habitat. Earth is a place where we pollute the oceans and blow up cities with atom bombs.

This all stems from religion, Christianity in particular because it is the most popular. People care about getting to heaven more than they do about this Earth and this life. We are already in heaven. Only we humans have messed everything up on this particular planet because some have desired power over anything else and they have gotten it. Look at the world today for proof.

Imagine if humans disappeared. The world would be peaceful without war or conflict, but living in harmony. That is Eden on Earth.




posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Snsoc
 


And what proof does anyone have that Jesus knew the exact moment or day? Does he ever state a timeline? No, only a sequence of events that are the natural evolution of a planet like Earth where religion is at the forefront of most of history. Where people disrespect Mother nature and each other, killing one another and cutting down huge areas of trees to lay down concrete which kills the grass. We have replaced natural living with artificial living, having more love for the next Iphone than our natural habitat. Earth is a place where we pollute the oceans and blow up cities with atom bombs.

This all stems from religion, Christianity in particular because it is the most popular. People care about getting to heaven more than they do about this Earth and this life. We are already in heaven. Only we humans have messed everything up on this particular planet because some have desired power over anything else and they have gotten it. Look at the world today for proof.

Imagine if humans disappeared. The world would be peaceful without war or conflict, but living in harmony. That is Eden on Earth.


How do you propose making people disappear?

I'll agree that we haven't been good stewards of the Earth but that stems from greed and shortsightedness, not from Christianity.

Actually, Jesus was quite clear that not even He knew the day or hour of His return (Matthew 24;36, Mark 13:32). There's no "proof" of this, just as all Scripture-it's second- or third-hand hearsay that we accept on faith. BECAUSE THAT IS THE TEST.

It's obvious you have some personal greivance against Christianity and need to find what you perceive as contradictions in it. I'm sorry for whatever happened to you. Hopefully your philosophy will bring you peace.



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 12:45 AM
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reply to post by Snsoc
 


I'm going to ignore the first part, as I clearly said to use your imagination. I don't think that's too big a task for you, is it?

I read that part in the wrong context, I apologize, but your mention of that verse brings up an interesting question. If Jesus was god, then how does he not know the day? I thought god was supposed to be the Alpha and Omega, knowing everything in advance and giving men prophecies that supposedly predicted future events. Was Jesus lying there?

I have a problem with any kind of religion that lies to its followers and who destroy the world in the process. We have become complacent and unwilling to change because we have "faith" that Jesus will come back and fix everything for us. Well, that's not going to happen, sorry.

Children are indoctrinated into believing in fairy tales in order to make them complacent. All it takes is repetition and a place like hell to get them to believe it without question. A good example of how this works is with pictures of Jesus. He is most often depicted as a white man when he really should have been dark skinned.

Most people today think of a white man when they think of Jesus and most actually believe he was white. Even I am guilty of this, all because of repetition, where a white man is depicted repetitively over the course of a lifetime. As with any lie, when you start to look closely and study into the origins of it, you'll discover cracks in the lie that show it is not truth. You refuse to question it because you fall back on faith.

If faith is truly as powerful as Jesus said, then you would be able to move a mountain. Can you move a mountain? I doubt it. It's obviously an impossible thing to do, so was Jesus lying when he said that or was he speaking figuratively? So what IF..... he didn't mean faith in him, but something else? Maybe rebirth? I think so.

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posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 01:16 AM
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reply to post by Snsoc
 


Do you not believe this universe is heaven and that if humans never came into the picture that heaven would be on Earth (Eden)?

I bet if you did believe this was heaven, you'd appreciate it a lot more than you do now, but you believe it's only a "test".



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 03:41 AM
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If Jesus was god, then how does he not know the day? I thought god was supposed to be the Alpha and Omega, knowing everything in advance and giving men prophecies that supposedly predicted future events. Was Jesus lying there?


And how could a God who is everywhere confine himself to a human body? Because God, being God, can temporarily set aside any of his attributes. When he incarnated as Christ, he knew what he needed to know to get the job completed. No need to put all the fullness of God into one mortal frame. It also answers the school child's question: Can God make a rock so big, not even he can lift it? Answer: Yes. He can say or think, "Let me be weak for such and such period of time."


I have a problem with any kind of religion that lies to its followers and who destroy the world in the process.


As do I.



Most people today think of a white man when they think of Jesus and most actually believe he was white.


You're right. He should look more Palestinean.


If faith is truly as powerful as Jesus said, then you would be able to move a mountain. Can you move a mountain?


He said if your faith is the size a mustard seed (which is tiny) you could move a mountain. I cannot. Therefore, my faith is microscopic. It's humbling. It's not faith that's the problem. it's the people.



It's obviously an impossible thing to do, so was Jesus lying when he said that or was he speaking figuratively? So what IF..... he didn't mean faith in him, but something else? Maybe rebirth? I think so.


I think it's safe to say that he was speaking in metaphor, as he often did. I certainly hope, for your sake, he's speaking of reincarnation.



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 03:45 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


I certainly don't believe this is heaven. If it is, then heaven only lasts 75 years (if you're lucky) and you could be killed off at any moment by an earthquake, flood, plague, wild animal, meteor, or volcano. No thanks.



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Snsoc
 


And what proof does anyone have that Jesus knew the exact moment or day? Does he ever state a timeline?



yeah there's a general timeframe but no exact day. the way you find this is to consider that references to things appearing in the heavens are actually constellations in various positions related to precession of the equinoxes. for example, the tail of the great red dragon that hurls 1/3rd of the stars to the earth in the book of revelation, chapter 12, is referring to the constellation draco the dragon, which in 1/3rd of precession, would appear to be dumping the stars from its tail unto the earth. also, virgo appears in the passage as well, with the position of the sun in relation to her rising that tells you what point in history she represents. in the verse, it suggests the sun is rising in her midsection, so if you know how to read precessional star charts and can track virgo, and provided it's the same virgo that we have today, you should be able to tell when the prophecy starts and how it relates to other passages.

these things are not simple metaphors for constellations only, though, as you can tell by reading the passages. they have additional meanings.



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by swordwords
 


Your mention of Josephus got me thinking. I did some research and found that Josephus actually saved someone from being crucified, the only recording of someone ever surviving a crucifixion.


Josephus, Life, 75, p. 20 of Whiston’s Translation

... as I [Joseph Bar Mathias] came back, I saw many captives crucified; and remembered three of them as my former acquaintance. I was very sorry at this in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus, and told him of them; so he immediately commanded them to be taken down, and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their recovery; yet two of them died under the physician’s hands, while the third recovered.


Jesus was crucified with two thieves, making three people in all. Jesus survived his crucifixion (resurrection) while the others died. Also, Joseph bar Mathias sounds a lot like a guy called Joseph of Arimathea doesn't it? He was the guy who took Jesus' dead body and laid it in the tomb.


The Gospel of Barnabas has the incident of Joseph, but, his name is Abarimathia not Arimathea.

Barnabas 217, 8.

... but by means of Nicodemus and Joseph of Abarimathia they obtained from the governor the body... to bury it.


Source

Joseph Bar Mathias/Joseph Abarimathia, maybe they're the same person? Obviously Josephus wasn't alive during the crucifixion, so maybe Josephus put a hidden meaning into his works as well?



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Very good, but you missed something here. Josephus' account means nothing unless there is something that connects the man he saved with Christ or the Christians. Your quote of Josephus did not include the location where he claimed this event occurred. Josephus indicated that it took place at “… a certain village called Thecoa…” which is certainly a reference to the Old Testament town of Tekoa. This town is mentioned only 13 times in the Old Testament, but three occurrences appear in 2 Samuel Chapter 14 where the woman from Tekoa pretends she is pleading to King David for the life of her son, but she is actually pleading for the life of Absalom-the son of David. The name "Absalom" means "father of peace" and remember what Christ said about "peace makers". (Matthew 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.") Josephus' unmanly behavior and his mention of Thekoa were an intentional allusion designed to connect the crucifixion survivor with "the Son of David". As I mentioned elsewhere, I find no real dead ends.

The time difference between Josephus’ account and the Gospel accounts is the result of an allegoric practice known as "the grafting of vines". (The authors of Holy Blood, Holy Grail encountered references to this practice, but since they had the context wrong, they did not understand its true meaning. ) History from one time period serves as a cover for history from a different time period. This is where the idea of “reincarnation” comes from.

edit on 14-2-2013 by swordwords because: Added quotes



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by Snsoc
 


Yes, he was talking about reincarnation. That's what he taught, eternal life for everyone.

A mustard seed is microscopic, even smaller than that when you take into account the size of the universe.

Also, just because a meteor or something has a chance to hit Earth doesn't take away the fact that it is beautiful and perfect for LIFE. Your life doesn't only last 75 years, it lasts forever because life continues on, no matter what, even after you die from a meteor. In fact, the moment you die you are "born again" through reincarnation. Energy cannot be destroyed and consciousness is energy.

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posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 11:45 PM
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. Energy cannot be destroyed and consciousness is energy.


Now that I agree with. Scientists and atheists can't explain where consciousness comes from. it seems to be something more than the sum of its parts, a non-physical phenomenon arising from a physical source. We call this consciousness a "soul."



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 11:49 PM
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reply to post by Snsoc
 


Yes, and this soul is the same in everyone. When everyone's souls are looked at as One, that is the holy spirit, God. We are God experiencing itself from infinite unique perspectives. That's the glory of God in my opinion, it creates and perpetuates life infinitely.
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posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by EnochWasRight
 





You have as many reasons not to believe as you do to believe



reason Satan was cast to Earth with man was for the purpose of our witness against him.


Thanks for that but you havent actually addressed the issue of Pauls subversion for the greater Good theme that you have developed.
I dont recall ever saying what I beleive in any of my threads since I started on ATS.
I dont sound like a nag but care to show me


If Jesus wanted a new church on this Earth as opposed to the existing Jewish system and the "LAW" Why did it take 300 years and countless heresies? Why so much time.... Where is the power of Jesus, why the silence, why leave it so long, where are the post apostolic miracles...were they not acting in the spirit and name of Jesus


Care to elucidate me as to the silence of the Jehovas/The Lord/Elohim/El Shaddai...acting through Jesus/christ/ redeemer/saviour etc....in repeating one verifiable Miracle form the the NT....remember..."greater works than I you will cary out in my name"?

from your 3rd paragraph with the background of your 2nd para you are implying satan again is an opaque obstruction....keeping us from god...Well sorry but I dont ascribe to the theory that the fallen angel has that much power. What power "it" has is what you xtians given it by, wait for it...YOU xtians...Yes you read that correctly...any cursing to hell of unbeleivers, praying for their souls as seen many times on ATS...is quite simply a form of "black magic". Let me explain as I constantly have to remind xtians...by stating such prayers they always fail to preface them "if it is Gods will then I pray for your soul" Rarely have I seen that...because they do not practise what they preach but judge condemn and then offer their solution for my souls well being. Sorry but my soul can take its lessons as needed through reincarnation. Thats the beauty of my revelation...and you're entitled to your revelation that there is a hell and pits of fire.

I was Christened as a christian at birth, 'Born again baptised" at age 17, searched various sects of xtianity for 5 years, 10 dark years "dark night of the soul", the last 15 years begun the real journey home...and guess what as I approach my "going over" period I can honestly say its been fun...and that more beauty and truth will be revealed when my soul is ready. Nothing beats a pineal/kundalini/third eye awakening...(thats the real serpent...hehe..)

When people get over the fact that there is no division we are all one with "the Creator/the unfathomable" then they will reclaim their divinity NOT allowing man made sects keeping them from their true nature/divinity.

But I still dont see how your response has anything to do with Pauls/Sauls subversion and creation of a new judaic/gentile sect. In this thread we dont need revealed Truth or written quoted Truth, the inconsistencies are fairly obvious to an honest person



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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Now the earth was formless and empty (Not collapsed / Wave Function),

from wiki
"The reality of wave function collapse has always been debated, i.e., whether it is a fundamental physical phenomenon in its own right[2] or just an epiphenomenon of another process, such as quantum decoherence.[3] In recent decades the quantum decoherence view has gained popularity "

So lets talk science now? "Formless" would not be an earth by "self definition" of earth.

On the nature as to how evil entered the holy creation The Gnostics hint at this with the noumenal, the Kababalh with tzim-tzum
I find this useful....
In Kabbalistic cosmology, the Qliphoth are metaphorical “shells” surrounding holiness. They are spiritual obstacles receiving their existence from God only in an external, rather than internal manner. Divinity in Judaism connotes revelation of God's true unity, while the shells conceal holiness, as a peel conceals the fruit within. They are therefore synonymous with idolatry, the root of impurity through ascribing false dualism in the Divine, and with the Sitra Achra (סטרא אחרא "Other Side"), the perceived realm opposite to holiness. They emerge in the descending Seder hishtalshelus (Chain of Being) through Tzimtzum (contraction of the Divine Ohr), as part of the purpose of Creation





I can go all day if you like. You will not be able to muster an argument that I cannot then show in the reflection back to you from the Bible. Try if you like. The same holds true for Paul, Jesus and so on. If you choose the wrong side of truth, the light is revealing this just as clearly as someone choosing the right side of truth. You cast your own shadows, you light your own fire and you can also use that light as a way to see the path. It's a choice.


I dont agree with the above but just humour for a minute and tell me what lesson jehovah/the deimurge was attempting to convey when Elisha called on the bears...

2 Kings 2:23-24
23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
One christians response is
"One slight ajustment to make in your mind. The Hebrew word translated "little children" in that scripture refers to people who were in the "apprenticeship" part of their lives, meaning between the ages of 18 and 30. Most modern tranlation use the word "youth", not children These were not a group of 9 and 10 year olds just being silly. These were young adults who knew exactly who they were mocking and what they were doing. If you look at where and when the incident happened, Elisha had just spend several years following, servicing, and learning from Elijah. The time had come for Elijah to go to heaven. Elisha refused to allow his master to go off alone to die. Instead he kept following him. Finally, when the time came, a fiery chariot came down and picked up Elijah and took him off to heaven. The chariot was visible to more than just Elisha, because immediately the others in the area wanted to go searching for Elijah, considered that the charoit whould drop him somewhere. Al Elijah is leaving, up comes this gang of young men (at least 42 of them) and begin mocking and abusing Elisha, yelling "Go up, bald man". These young men must have also witnessed the miracle of Elijah going up in the chariot, or what did they mean by telling Elisah to also "Go up." This was no innocent group of kids. It was a large gang of 40+ young adults, surrounding, mocking, and probably endangering the life of Elisha. Laughting at the miracle of God they had just witnessed. Elisha spoke against them, and God sent the two bears. Elisha walked away unharmed. 42 of the youth did not. Note that it says the youth were "torn apart" in the KJ. Most other translation use "rend", "torn" or "injured". The original Hebrew word does NOT mean killed".

why would one love such a god? through fear... oh yeah...i must not get it...the truth hasn't been revealed to me

"You cast your own shadows, you light your own fire and you can also use that light as a way to see the path. It's a choice."
the fire is already within each of us..the spark is revelation...there are many paths...and I'm glad for the choices...infinite lifetimes infinite choices infinite paths...and when ready back to the unmanifested Sea of Mercy and Love of the Supreme..the fire is already within



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by undo
 





i intend to root out all of it. i'm not gonna spare any of them or even the eastern religions. when i get done, i'm gonna know, not only who is lying thru their teeth, but who has been working as coordinated groups with the big 3 abrahamic faiths, to steal, murder, torture and starve, billions upon billions of people, for the last 4 thousand years.


Thats easy... we are feeding in to the matrix run by soul catchers who feed of our energy, us lower sheep are the expendebles, the unpaid slaves, given morsels and the promise of a heaven to come...The Earth bound Elite at the top of the chain..enjoy their reward on Earth..they in turn are answerable to their "dark lord"
You'll get your chance, I think the battle lines are being drawn up...we are co workers for "g-u-d" to help the lost back home...Much suffering but its all fun...we learn every day the strength and patience of Job...blessed be you



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 03:59 PM
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OP, you hit the nail on the head, I had to rethink everything at the very least, there is no easing of the original commandments of Moses if Paul in fact was not genuine in his writings/letters because that is all they are, also I had to find out other impacts and it is huge, I have my doubts about all that he wrote, my other question is besides the entirety of the dead sea scrolls what else does the Vatican or other powers have in their possession that could be completely contradictory or add more confirmation to what we know as the full truth of Christ, God and overall the human race.



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by Snsoc
 


Jesus said the Pharisees were hypocrites, not church-goers. In fact, he was referring to synagouges, not churches. You should stay away from synagouges, as we are no longer under the Law



See what you did there...Jesus was commenting on the hypocrites...there were no church goers at the time there was no church...full stop...circular argument



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


So true Its all coming to pass...

Islam created by the Jesuits.

www.redicecreations.com...


the three cities that rule the world
Rome= Spiritual
London=financial
Washington=Military
bibletimestoday.wordpress.com...



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by JayinAR
 




, it would explain why after the Romans went to great lengths to trap, capture and execute him the story reads as if ultimately it was the Jews who did him in. Can't be having any negative attention on an Empire that has now decided to subvert this movement,


The Jews were the scapegoats as ultimately the consul/prelate for the holy land was chosen by the Romans



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 04:27 PM
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Why was Paul allowed to receive the holy spirit without being baptized or believing? Why was he allowed to take the shortcut after murdering true believers when I am not and have never killed anyone, much less hundreds or thousands as Paul did?
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


If this wasn't more serious I would be on the floor rolling and laughing now...Why indeed the shortcut...for a murderer, ....intriguing, but obvious as the thread is proving and shedding much light on the enemy with-in: Saul/Paul



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by TheConstruKctionofLight
 


I believe your answers might come from this: Thread

Paul delivered a message that is the loudest one we hear. It is articulate and clear and bears fruit leading to righteousness. He does not deny Christ. If you throw Paul out, you are left with having to bear the cup of Christ alone. You are left with atonement on your own shoulders. Christ died for humanity so that you can live. If you could do it yourself, then the atonement would be unnecessary.

If, somehow, you are correct about Paul, then this does nothing to the atonement of our sins. We either do it ourselves or we rest on the cross. Again, if it was our cup to bear, we would have had to bear it and Christ was not necessary to save mankind. Throw Paul out and you still have the same message from the Sermon on the Mount. What Jesus stated in that sermon is what a person would need to do to fulfill the law completely. Obviously, no man (except Jesus) could have done it. He set the bar to perfection, then proceeded to show it accomplished. Again, if we could do this, then his atonement was not necessary.

Paul's message was what I just posted. Paul agrees with Isaiah. Isaiah agrees with Jesus. If not, then we have no word to rely on. Nothing rises to the truth of love that we find in the New Testament. The obvious fulfillment of the Law is that love overcomes the need for law.

Assuming you are correct on Paul, then all of us have been deceived by something outside the law that overcame that law. In this case, we are held harmless unless God is not Just. Go back to the document I listed at the top. It holds the key.





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