What was Leonardo hinting at with John the Baptist?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


He has an androgynous face, typical of Leonardo's style.
(The same is also typical of much of Michelangelo's work, by the way.)

reply to post by Vanitas


The only androgynous faces I know of that he painted were those of John the Baptist, maybe even the Mona Lisa. Could you give me an example of others of his? Genuinely curious.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Akragon

 

Though it may not be provable, those with an inquisitive enough mind can grasp and pull out the meaning If they really try.

Is it only a coincidence that John has a womanly face and he was the one to baptize Jesus? Is it also another coincidence that baptism is symbolic of childbirth? John's womanly face, baptism, and birth. What's the connection here? And why would the Romans change "his" identity?

edit on 25-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

In some circles it was believed that the church was supposed to be led by a female... Some also believed that mary was the person that was supposed to lead Christs Church... but women had no status back then...

It can be shown that Mary was Jesus' favorite follower... She may have been his wife... but again, there no way to prove this unless there are documents that are hidden in various libraries around the world... And im sure there are.

reluctant-messenger.com...

Perhaps Leonardo was just trying to remind us to have our prostate checked regularly? He was quite clued-up on anatomy, after all!

Another point that reinforces my theory is that of the Transfiguration. This is where Jesus goes up to the mountain-top with Peter, John, and James after the crucifixion. As it goes in the bible:

Matthew 17

1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

Then goes on to say:

Matthew 17

Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

If John the Baptist was Elijah and Elijah was Moses (two witnesses in Revelation 11), then where was John the Baptist at during the Transfiguration? Maybe he was there, only he was Jesus.

was this a commisioned work for a client ?

because he may be saying "I want to get paid so I a pleasing the client with paiting what he/she wants"

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Ginevra de' Benci is one example I can think of off the top of my head.

But in reality look at any of his female figures - for example, St Anne and Mary - , and you'll see they only look distinctly female because of their clothes.

Or that angel. Can you guess its gender? :-)

reply to post by MystikMushroom

Alas, the two have become one...

reply to post by syrinx high priest


The first painting was not commissioned, Leonardo painted it for himself. As for Bacchus, I can't find any information on its commission.

I think it may be, As Above So Below.
And in the 2nd painting pointing to his Heart means the Sun.( Son)
The heart Chakra is the Sun. As is Jesus's sacred heart.
It's Leo the Lion (lionheart) the Sun exults in Leo. The colors Orange and Yellows etc.
The Sun (Son) is baptized in the waters of Pisces (John the Baptist) and born again
on the 21st of March in Aries.

John the Baptist was a popular preacher and the true "Messiah" (even though he supposedly denied it - who can say, really?), with a message of transcendence and brotherly love. Jesus was a sorcerer and a politically ambitious descendant of Solomon who manipulated the situation to have John beheaded and took over his relatively large group of followers -- as well as some of John's message, at least outwardly -- in an attempt to create an army, rout the Romans, and establish himself on the throne.

He went a little power mad, his plan went horribly wrong, and he ended up hanged for his trouble, but through the work of Saint Peter and some wild twists of history ended up with a lot of misguided people thinking he was the Son of God and Savior.

It's all in the Books, but you have to read between the lines a little.

reply to post by Akragon


Mary sure did have a lot of wisdom didn't she? Almost like she's Christ himself.

If Jesus was a woman as I suspect, then Mary would have definitely been her name, but not Magdalene. Remember what I said about baptism, childbirth, and John the Baptist?

reply to post by Blue Shift


OR... John and Jesus were the same person, only the Romans split his identity into many to cover his true identity? Jesus came for peace, not kingship so I'm not sure where you got that idea.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


So get this....I'm reading The Book of Hiram by Robert Lomas...

reply to post by VeritasAequitas


Very interesting! Rome did turn Jesus into a pagan sun god, so the summer solstice being called the Feast of St. John is not a coincidence in my opinion. Thanks for bringing that up!

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Blue Shift
OR... John and Jesus were the same person, only the Romans split his identity into many to cover his true identity? Jesus came for peace, not kingship so I'm not sure where you got that idea.

The Jesus of Luke was certainly not one of peace. He was one of revolution and disruption. That's one of the clues that suggests he wasn't the Prince of Peace many people consider him to be.

The thing is, we don't know for sure what John's philosophy was. And the biggest reason is that Jesus likely co-opted it in order to take over his followers.

reply to post by Blue Shift


Your theory about Jesus overthrowing John was actually the Romans changing his name in my opinion. Is it just a coincidence that Jesus gained John's followers? Maybe he didn't exactly "gain" them, but kept them. The divide lies in the names, which Rome could have easily changed. Jesus gaining John's followers was actually Jesus keeping his followers.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Blue Shift

 

Your theory about Jesus overthrowing John was actually the Romans changing his name in my opinion. Is it just a coincidence that Jesus gained John's followers? Maybe he didn't exactly "gain" them, but kept them. The divide lies in the names, which Rome could have easily changed. Jesus gaining John's followers was actually Jesus keeping his followers.

I enjoyed this thread and the different views, really interesting!! But I think this hit's the nail on the head

Originally posted by Blue Shift

The Jesus of Luke was certainly not one of peace. He was one of revolution and disruption. That's one of the clues that suggests he wasn't the Prince of Peace many people consider him to be.

If you're referring to the "sword" quote, it bespeaks only awareness of what his "troublesome" message - ironically, a message of radical peace - that went against the traditional precepts of Judaism - "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" - would cause.

He certainly was a revolutionary, and his message is as revolutionary today as it was 2000 years ago:

"Love another as you love yourself."
"Forgive unconditionally, no matter what."

Try that at home.

In my opinion John is telling us the secret that Thomas is being offered to take Jesus' place on the cross.

Thomas and Jesus could pass as twins (brothers). Even Thomas's name means twin: www.12apostlesofthecatholicchurch.com...
www.guidedbiblestudies.com...

Divinci tells us that in his obvious need to write/paint with use of mirrors (twins).

John writes about Thomas only 3 times (3 being the number of days being dead)

If you notice hands are very important (as in Thomas's indication that he won't believe it is true unless he personally pokes jesus with his hand) .Thomas (in The Last Supper) is seen pointing up in speaking to Jesus.