What was Leonardo hinting at with John the Baptist?

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posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 08:32 AM
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Jesus used the term "brood of vipers" to describe those who he thought were evil.


Matthew 12
34 You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.



Matthew 23
33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?


Guess who else uses that term?


Luke 3
7 John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?


Coincidence or something more? These are the only instances where the term "brood of vipers" is used in the entire bible and are used by Jesus and John.

edit on 26-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 10:06 AM
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Id like to know how many of us reading this tread just sat and pointed/posed like John the baptist in the paintings ...you know ...to see if you can figure it out? I know I just did! Lol! ...nice thread OP!



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 11:13 AM
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leonardo was a pegan ans a homosexual. anything he did for the church was strictly for profit.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by karen61560
 


Leonardo wasn't pagan, I'm not sure where you got that information from. In fact, Leonardo never mentioned what faith he belonged to, if any.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 

john baptized jesus.what was he just playing with himself ?



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by karen61560
 


Baptism is allegory for child birth, John baptizing Jesus was John giving birth to a baby. Sounds kinda crazy doesn't it? I'll explain soon.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Reading through this, and then this last post of baptism being an allegory of childbirth, are you hinting that Mary was John was Jesus? As in all the same being?



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by fiendchikx138
 


Yes.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 12:42 PM
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Interesting tread.

I am wondering why no one has mentioned the very obvious phallic symbol to the right and the doom vagina/womb with a pathway to the left? These aren't accidental.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by fiendchikx138
 


Yes.


I'm following all of this post and it's taking on a new revelation. I love where you are coming and going with all the symbolism and allegory. I'd like to see you make a thread specifically focused on these last few things you've shared and in more details. It does go with the OT, but yet at the same time it deserves to be separate, if that makes sense?

Nevertheless....S&F and stars flying all over the place in here



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 12:55 PM
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Mona Lisa


That face looks familiar doesn't it? Kind looks like this guys face:



They both have the same facial features and the same enigmatic smile. Could they be linked? I think so.

The Mona Lisa was probably a self-portrait of da Vinci himself.



The sketch on the right side was a self-portrait of da Vinci as an old man. As you can see, the facial features line up almost perfectly. I think that since John and the Mona Lisa have the same face, John is very feminine, and the gender swap on the Mona Lisa, this leads me to believe that Leonardo was hinting at John's gender being swapped from a woman to a man. This is what the smile symbolizes in my opinion, Leonardo's knowledge of this swap.

Now for the meaning behind the name.


Mona m(o)-na as a girl's name is pronounced MOH-nah. It is of Irish and Gaelic origin, and the meaning of Mona is "noble, aristocratic". Also an Italian short form of Madonna. The "Mona Lisa", a portrait painted by Leonardo da Vinci, has inspired name blends. The name spread from Ireland in the mid 19th century.


Source

It also means solitary or one. A nod to the One god?

Mona is short form in Italian for Madonna. Leonardo had another painting called "Madonna of the Rocks", or "Virgin of the Rocks", where the virgin Mary is the central figure.


Lisa l(i)-sa as a girl's name is pronounced LEE-sah. It is of English origin. Short form of Elisabeth (Hebrew) "God's promise".


Source

And from another site:


Hebrew Meaning:
The name Lisa is a Hebrew baby name. In Hebrew the meaning of the name Lisa is: From the Hebrew Elisheba, meaning either oath of God, or God is satisfaction. Also, the lilly flower.


Source

So Mona is short for Madonna, which is the identity given to Mary in "Madonna of the rocks" and Lisa means "God's promise". Didn't god promise us a messiah? It also says that it is short for Elisabeth, or Elizabeth. John's mothers name was Saint Elizabeth. Another coincidence.

Lisa is also associated with the lily flower, so let's see what the lily flower symbolizes.


In Christianity, the lily is considered as a symbol of chastity and purity. It is portrayed in the art forms of early Christian paintings, typically resting in a vase. The flower is also associated with Virgin Mary. According to the general belief, the tomb of Virgin Mary was adorned with white lilies. The different parts of the flower were personified by attributing the features of Virgin Mary to them. While the leaves of the lily symbolized her modesty, the white petals represented innocence and purity. The stem of the flower was considered to be the symbol of Mother/Virgin Mary's religious nature.


Source

So Mona is short for Madonna which is what Mary is called. Lisa means "God's promise" and is also associated with a lily flower which is associated with the virgin Mary.

Since both names point towards Mary, the Mona Lisa was a gender-swap of Leonardo, John and Mona Lisa have the same face, and John is very feminine, this leads me to believe that John was Mary and Mary is Jesus.

edit on 26-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)
edit on 26-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)
edit on 26-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by liveandlearn
 


You mean on Bacchus? Where the hill on the right is the phallic symbol and the open meadow on the left is the womb? If so, look how John is right on the edge of the divide with his legs on the left and upper body on the right. John's upper body looks masculine while his legs are in a feminine position.

He's not pointing at the ground and toward the meadow either, he's pointing toward the right side of the painting, the masculine side. So the masculine form is Satan? Very interesting, thanks for bringing that up!



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


So Jesus = Dionysus

I can believe that. Outside of the feastive crowds that followed both of them around,
    there was that water to wine thing
    both had God as a father and a human as a mother
    they were both saved by a servent of God
    they both died and returned as godlike
    they both used a lam as an early symbol
    they both returned uncorupted from the underworld
    they both were depicted wearing a crown of vegitation
    they both have feastivals held in early spring
    both have a passing history in India
    they both have stories about adventures on the sea

As for the John the Baptist connection? All I have to say to that is that dunking a person into water was an old ritual where you made a pack with Oceanus were you give your soul to him in exchange for safe passages on the seas.

John the Baptist could have very well have been a wondering preist for Oceanus. Since worshipping the Titans was a big no-no during the Roman era, this would explain his reasoning for traveling in small groups and providing his services outside the of the city. (Remember that early Jewish practices were talerated within most Roman cities)



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by Guyfriday
 


The connection with John is in the painting, the second one in the OP.


As for Oceanus, the ritual still had a symbolic meaning, that of reincarnation.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


No, I refer to 'The Virgin of the Rocks' where the phallic symbol is in line with John (encased in a dome) and a larger dome goes off to the right of Mary. The upright rocks appear to show a path through the womb.

I looked at Baccus but it wasn't as clear but could possibly be implied.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Guyfriday
 


The connection with John is in the painting, the second one in the OP.

I know, but I was thinking along the lines of "why would Leonardo draw this line of thought?"


As for Oceanus, the ritual still had a symbolic meaning, that of reincarnation.
Yes it did, a person was reborn as his servent.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by syrinx high priest
 


The first painting was not commissioned, Leonardo painted it for himself. As for Bacchus, I can't find any information on its commission.


thank you for taking the time



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by Guyfriday
 


From the libraries of the Vatican possibly, or he just figured it out himself. He was a very smart man you know, and he was close to the church.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 03:05 PM
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Well, John the Baptist would have been a skinny dude because he was always fasting for long periods of time. None of these pictures would truly represent him. Jesus on the other hand drank wine and ate a lot so I think he may have been more built like the person in the picture.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by rickymouse
 


Jesus fasted too, remember after he was baptized he went into the wilderness and was tempted by Satan for 40 days. Temptation by Satan represents fasting. Which brings up another point, they both fasted as well which is another similarity between the two.





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