Christians "The Book of Enoch", In or Out???

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
You cannot change the 'given truth' Joe, yet attempted to change fate. Oddlly as Herod you did these things and exacted your surprising as it was ALWAYS (your nature) to DOMINATE and control. You lived and outsmarted the Romans had a major impact on building the inferstructure of Jeruselem; Pilot being your Spy "Listen I am your GOOD concious nemises (representive of Caesar Tiberius son of Augustus?)."

“Change the given truth… change fate”, hold on a minute; all I did was put your random list, into alphabetical order… What truth are you talking about? Seriously, your not making sense.

And why are using the word “You”, if the names are not meant to signify, the actual person from history, on your list? I can only assume that you think I have some kind of a dominating personality or something?

Maybe based on this thread alone, it might look that way… but you couldn’t be further away from the truth, if you tried any harder.

- JC

I know whom you are; and oh so do I love you if you only knew.

Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
You cannot change the 'given truth' Joe, yet attempted to change fate. Oddlly as Herod you did these things and exacted your surprising as it was ALWAYS (your nature) to DOMINATE and control. You lived and outsmarted the Romans had a major impact on building the inferstructure of Jeruselem; Pilot being your Spy "Listen I am your GOOD concious nemises (representive of Caesar Tiberius son of Augustus?)."

“Change the given truth… change fate”, hold on a minute; all I did was put your random list, into alphabetical order… What truth are you talking about? Seriously, your not making sense.

And why are using the word “You”, if the names are not meant to signify, the actual person from history, on your list? I can only assume that you think I have some kind of a dominating personality or something?

Maybe based on this thread alone, it might look that way… but you couldn’t be further away from the truth, if you tried any harder.

- JC

edit on 27-1-2013 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)

You conciously changed a given truth. All that you did was to put a random list into order alphabetical. Whos, MINE. I have self determinism you are Herod past life no proving it. I Was There. No thing wrong with this thread, I will claim all malfeasence occuring. Is there a misunderstanding here?

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
I know whom you are; and oh so do I love you if you only knew.

So you know whom I am lol And you think I’m Herod, right, from a past life, …So you love Herod, is that what your saying?

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
You conciously changed a given truth. All that you did was to put a random list into order alphabetical. Whos, MINE. I have self determinism you are Herod past life no proving it. I Was There.

There was no given truth, you said yourself that it was a random thought.

You may have been there from your past life memories etc, but I’m not Herod… you got the wrong guy lol


- JC

Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
I know whom you are; and oh so do I love you if you only knew.

So you know whom I am lol And you think I’m Herod, right, from a past life, …So you love Herod, is that what your saying?

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
You conciously changed a given truth. All that you did was to put a random list into order alphabetical. Whos, MINE. I have self determinism you are Herod past life no proving it. I Was There.

There was no given truth, you said yourself that it was a random thought.

You may have been there from your past life memories etc, but I’m not Herod… you got the wrong guy lol
- JC

As in the Jesus Christ Superstar the musical (Youve Got the wrong Man Maybe, I believe you, there was another man that looked like me and you recognized its face). I have no past life memories; only the observance of others. Wandering Scribe needs to weigh in here, because It has something to say, If it will only tell the truth of its existance exposed understand It will not dispute itself as SOLOMON living now; for proof probably nay say me but I will chase it down pit it and make it admit its true being. Just as you a very special being.

No thing wrong with Herod, why do you dislike him? How could he have known He'd go down in Christian history as a fiend. I see him as a lost potencial for the good and admire his moxy. You must see the ones denighing their past life existence are the ones the loudest screaming in the empty barrel.

Originally posted by Joecroft

I see many Christians on ATS who appear to accept the “Book of Enoch” as if it were a natural part of the Biblical cannon. I would like to get everyone’s thoughts regarding the “Book of Enoch”, or more specifically, “The Book of Watchers”. As you may be aware, the book is still today, seen as canonical, by the Ethiopian Christians, but was of course always rejected, for inclusion, by the Jews.

Now here’s the interesting twist to the questions I’m posing, which I must warn you, is very controversial. The Ethiopian Jews have a claim (key word being claim) that they are part of the original descendants, of the House of Israel! Now please understand, I’m not saying this is a fact, but there does appear to be some evidence out there, which suggests this could be true. If this is true, then it raises huge questions, as to which Biblical Old Testament, is the most complete/correct one.

We know that the book of Jude mentions Enoch in verse 14, and it also appears that a few of the Church Fathers, Iranaeus and Clement gave the book their seal of approval. In fact, Tertullian made mention of the Jews rejection of the book, in the 3rd century; mentioning that the Jews rejected it, because it prophesied of Christ. There are also clear historical connections between Jesus and the Essenes, who also kept the “Book of Enoch”, as part of their cannon. The complete book was only discovered centuries later, in the Ethiopian communities, around the 17th Century.

As a Christian, do you believe the book was inspired and should therefore have been made part of Biblical cannon? etc…And if you accept the book, then how has it affected your overall beliefs?

Or, are you a Christian who thinks that it was rightly not included in the Bible; and if so, then why?

Lets go to Vegas, figure out who we are: in decifering what hotel to stay at MGM Grand what God profile most describes and flip some coins?

reply to post by vethumanbeing


your hilarious i admire your uncanniness

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
...JoeCroft=Herod Anitpas the great
Wandering Scribe=Solomon? I know you are there and refuse conference?
Akragon=Pilot my love did everything turn out alright?
Spirit of Enoch=Enoch truth
AfterInfinity=Luke Mark my word
Greatest I Am=Eve my cousin?
Smithsomjub=Wilam ?
Lone Wolf=Ba'el Prove it you beta no alpha
WanDash=Lamb of God representitive of Grand Illusion absolutely beautiful.

I needed to see it in a little different light, to help me make sense...
Still puzzling over it, though.
Grand Illusion, as in an album or song by Styx...or...French film from the 1930's...? (or otherwise?)
Owning-up to my part at the conference table, I will admit to constantly questioning this reality.
Is it a trick being played on me (personally)?
Am I the joke?
The Truman Show ...?
Tears of a clown...
(No sympathy expected or due.)

reply to post by vethumanbeing



Hmmm…

Can you see the problem with your statement below…

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
I have no past life memories; only the observance of others.

And your other statement below…

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
I have self determinism you are Herod past life no proving it. I Was There.

So you have no past life memories eh! And yet you were there!!! lol

That means your either “Count Dracula”, “The Highlander”, or perhaps one of Methuselahs, distant relatives lol

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
Wandering Scribe needs to weigh in here, because It has something to say, If it will only tell the truth of its existance exposed understand It will not dispute itself as SOLOMON living now;

Judging by Wandering Scribes last post, which can be found here, I don’t think he’s in the mood for further communications, with you.

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
Just as you a very special being.

Thanks, but I think where all special, in our own special way…


- JC

Originally posted by Joecroft
Hmmm… ...Can you see the problem with your statement…

...And your other statement below…

...So you have no past life memories eh! And yet you were there!!! lol

...That means your either “Count Dracula”, “The Highlander”, or perhaps one of Methuselahs, distant relatives lol
...- JC

Can't answer for vethumanbeing - but - can try to unravel the riddle...
Reminds me of a song by the Rolling Stones - Sympathy for the Devil...
Assuming all things stated to have been honest and accurate...who then, would It be?
I will not offer a guess, at this point...but may later, when I have had time to weigh all statements.

reply to post by Joecroft


considering it is in the dead sea scrolls and is very much part of the source material myths from Babylonians and Sumerians, I accept it.

The Bible has been butchered through marginalia errors, Gnostics, and Constantine initial en-paganing of Christianity....it has never been explained why it was excluded....other than it made conflicts with other parts...which in and of themselves are not without conflict and contradiction.

It is all valid....IMO

reply to post by WanDash

Originally posted by WanDash
...JoeCroft=Herod Anitpas the great
Wandering Scribe=Solomon? I know you are there and refuse conference?
Akragon=Pilot my love did everything turn out alright?
Spirit of Enoch=Enoch truth
AfterInfinity=Luke Mark my word
Greatest I Am=Eve my cousin?
Smithsomjub=Wilam ?
Lone Wolf=Ba'el Prove it you beta no alpha
WanDash=Lamb of God representitive of Grand Illusion absolutely beautiful.

Originally posted by WanDash
I needed to see it in a little different light, to help me make sense...
Still puzzling over it, though.

I’m puzzling over it even more; now that you’ve added the extra sentences lol…where the heck did you get those from…???

Reminds of math class when I was a kid; constantly trying to figure out, where they were getting that extra! figure from.

Originally posted by WanDash
Grand Illusion, as in an album or song by Styx...or...French film from the 1930's...? (or otherwise?)

That’s a mean curve ball, you got there!

Originally posted by WanDash
Can't answer for vethumanbeing - but - can try to unravel the riddle...
Reminds me of a song by the Rolling Stones - Sympathy for the Devil...

Where are you getting all this from…show me your workings out…


- JC

Originally posted by Joecroft
I’m puzzling over it even more; now that you’ve added the extra sentences lol…where the heck did you get those from…???
...- JC

Next to last post on Page 3 of this thread...
Will respond to the rest shortly.
Thanks!

Originally posted by WanDash

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
...JoeCroft=Herod Anitpas the great
Wandering Scribe=Solomon? I know you are there and refuse conference?
Akragon=Pilot my love did everything turn out alright?
Spirit of Enoch=Enoch truth
AfterInfinity=Luke Mark my word
Greatest I Am=Eve my cousin?
Smithsomjub=Wilam ?
Lone Wolf=Ba'el Prove it you beta no alpha
WanDash=Lamb of God representitive of Grand Illusion absolutely beautiful.

I needed to see it in a little different light, to help me make sense...
Still puzzling over it, though.
Grand Illusion, as in an album or song by Styx...or...French film from the 1930's...? (or otherwise?)
Owning-up to my part at the conference table, I will admit to constantly questioning this reality.
Is it a trick being played on me (personally)?
Am I the joke?
The Truman Show ...?
Tears of a clown...
(No sympathy expected or due.)

edit on 1/28/2013 by WanDash because: Yellow works better than red

This is very interesting. The first 3 times attempting to watch the Truman (TrueMan) Show I tranced out as in fell asleep. The fourth time I was allowed to watch it begining to end. I recognised NOT ONLY MYSELF but the ENTIRE human specie and its dilemma of constant manipulation by others, a real eye opener. The reason for the wait period; it was not the time yet to witness and understand the ugliness perpetrated upon the human.

There were many tears (only for an instant or so). Question this reality, Hollywood is in constant bickering with itself--"make the movies discribing them, (you, I themselves) and is it moral to have them go pay $12.00 a ticket?" We have so little understanding of ourselves that we have to watch movies to explain ourselves to ourselves.

YOUR analogies as to names to faces is to me spot on identifying/expressing some very very abstract ideas about one aspect regarding the nature of reincarnation/recurrence of thought ie. deeds commited past.

French Films--they are a beautiful concise expression of the existencial "where do we fit here"; their genious is in the sense of humor and knowing it (that of being in such a state of confusion). I would bet during their wars with the English someone could have been caught wispering--"Do we not know a joke we could tell them and they would all die laughing?" We then would'nt have to go to the Americans and sell them the Louisiana Territory to fund this dibacal.

Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Hmmm…

Can you see the problem with your statement below…

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
I have no past life memories; only the observance of others.

And your other statement below…

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
I have self determinism you are Herod past life no proving it. I Was There.

So you have no past life memories eh! And yet you were there!!! lol

That means your either “Count Dracula”, “The Highlander”, or perhaps one of Methuselahs, distant relatives lol

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
Wandering Scribe needs to weigh in here, because It has something to say, If it will only tell the truth of its existance exposed understand It will not dispute itself as SOLOMON living now;

Judging by Wandering Scribes last post, which can be found here, I don’t think he’s in the mood for further communications, with you.

- JC

What is a Methuselah one of the Gorgon Sisters in drag? Who can anticipate, fully describe adequately one of Wandering Scribes moods.
What makes you think I had to have a past life human body to "Being There". Peter Sellars. I was just the gardener.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
This is very interesting. The first 3 times attempting to watch the Truman (TrueMan) Show I tranced out as in fell asleep. The fourth time I was allowed to watch it begining to end. I recognised NOT ONLY MYSELF but the ENTIRE human specie and its dilemma of constant manipulation by others, a real eye opener. The reason for the wait period; it was not the time yet to witness and understand the ugliness perpetrated upon the human.

Well - as posited in another thread - "Who" is perpetrating the ugliness?..."& Why"?

There were many tears (only for an instant or so). Question this reality, Hollywood is in constant bickering with itself--"make the movies discribing them, (you, I themselves) and is it moral to have them go pay $12.00 a ticket?" We have so little understanding of ourselves that we have to watch movies to explain ourselves to ourselves.

Do you believe this understanding (of ourselves) should be evident...?
Do you believe the "Who & Why" (above) should be evident?

YOUR analogies as to names to faces is to me spot on identifying/expressing some very very abstract ideas about one aspect regarding the nature of reincarnation/recurrence of thought ie. deeds commited past.

French Films--they are a beautiful concise expression of the existencial "where do we fit here"; their genious is in the sense of humor and knowing it (that of being in such a state of confusion). I would bet during their wars with the English someone could have been caught wispering--"Do we not know a joke we could tell them and they would all die laughing?" We then would'nt have to go to the Americans and sell them the Louisiana Territory to fund this dibacal.

One of my favorites (situated in France, WW II) was actually written by a British novelist (Greene), starring Anthony Hopkins...called The Tenth Man (1988).
The situation/s and consequences were dark and heavy (for me). Yet, seemed to address some apparently legitimate moral questions.

Am still considering the puzzle/s referenced before...

Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by windword

 

Originally posted by windword
I think that the Book of Enoch as well as the Book of Jubilees were excluded from the Catholic Cannon because the Catholics didn't want their people consorting with angels Both books outline the names, duties and stations of the angels and have been used in "Enochian Magic and attributed to the sorcery of Solomon.

But isn’t that like kind of admitting that Solomon, was in turn, not a righteous prophet from God, if he was dabbling in sorcery and magic etc. Perhaps this is even the key reason, as to why the Jews wanted to get rid of it, in the first place.

Angel’s names and their functions/attributes, are mentioned in the book of Daniel and a few other books within the Bible; so it seems strange to clamp down on one book, for that reason alone.

Originally posted by windword
Here, in the THE COMPLETE CANONS OF THE SYNOD OF LAODICEA IN PHRYGIA PACATIANA you see where it is strictly forbidden.

CANON XXXV.
CHRISTIANS must not forsake the Church of God, and go away and invoke angels and gather assemblies, which things are forbidden. If, therefore, any one shall be found engaged in this covert idolatry, let him be anathema; for he has forsaken our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and has gone over to idolatry.

Interestingly, the Book of Revelations, has this to say about the church of Laodicea

Revelation 3:16
“So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth.”

Originally posted by windword
It seems to me that there are a lot of things that are already in the Old Testament that are worse for Christians to accept, like murder and rape, than knowing about the angels.

Yes, my thoughts exactly. The most common reason given by the church for not accepting the “Book of Enoch” is because of the issue, of Angels having sex with humans. But IMO this seems an unlikely reason for it’s rejection, because it’s a theme already mentioned in passages such as Genesis 6:1-4 and the notion of Angels walking around, like regular men, is also clearly covered in the OT. And there are far worse things depicted in the Bible, as you rightly pointed out.

There is clearly a push by a few church Fathers, to include the “Book of Enoch”, but as Tertullian mentioned, it was the Jewish disdain of the book, that IMO seems to be the more telling factor, for it’s rejection.

- JC

Do you suppose the innate hieretical Catholic distrust of the carnel knoweledge, threw out anything referring to bodily lust intuited this (referenced it) as Angels procreating with humans?. Sacraledge? Parrishaners go pro-create, we ourselves distain it or are above it? Hippocracy on a grand scale.

Solomon was a great magickian and the problem with the recognization of such (solomon) in Enochian text was to place Fear (unintended) into an otherwise dream supernatureal. This book should have slipped and slided into obscurity. It was the notion that there may be hidden truths here that frightenned the 'religious' power brokers. This resulted in too much accidental scrutiny. In so doing by the act of marginalizing it/ hiding it brought it into a spotlight gaining the attention of those first rate lie/truth detectors unabashably wanting to explain ancient mystery or at least question motives. Those motives being why hide it? It Backfired.

An aside--Rape and murder are of the physical realm therefore tangible, the last thing we are supposed to understand about ourselves are the intangible realms which for all good will intended is the real truth.

reply to post by vethumanbeing



Well if it aint, Mr. “playtime fun” himself…didn’t think you’d show!…after that awesome rebuttal lol

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
What is a Methuselah one of the Gorgon Sisters in drag?

Methuslelah was a really, really, really old guy, who lived for hundreds of years…come on, this is day one stuff! Man where have been all these years…don’t answer that lol

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
Who can anticipate, fully describe adequately one of Wandering Scribes moods.

The answer to this difficult and delicate question, is I believe…

“NOT YOU!” lol

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
What makes you think I had to have a past life human body to "Being There". Peter Sellars. I was just the gardener

Bravo! (Thought that one, might come back to haunt me.)

So you were just out there, floating around, getting “tricky with the gases” lol so to speak, until you found a body to inhabit ???

- JC

Originally posted by Joecroft
...Methuslelah was a really, really, really old guy, who lived for hundreds of years…come on, this is day one stuff! Man where have been all these years…don’t answer that lol

LOL!!!!!

The answer to this difficult and delicate question, is I believe…

“NOT YOU!” lol

LOL Again!
...Thanks for the humor.

Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Well if it aint, Mr. “playtime fun” himself…didn’t think you’d show!…after that awesome rebuttal lol

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
What is a Methuselah one of the Gorgon Sisters in drag?

Methuslelah was a really, really, really old guy, who lived for hundreds of years…come on, this is day one stuff! Man where have been all these years…don’t answer that lol

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
Who can anticipate, fully describe adequately one of Wandering Scribes moods.

The answer to this difficult and delicate question, is I believe…

“NOT YOU!” lol

Originally posted by verthumanbeing
What makes you think I had to have a past life human body to "Being There". Peter Sellars. I was just the gardener

Bravo! (Thought that one, might come back to haunt me.)

So you were just out there, floating around, getting “tricky with the gases” lol so to speak, until you found a body to inhabit ???

- JC

Floating around (like helium in a mylar balloon as a rememberance to something that has passed) that would be a celebrational/memorial perhaps? Stalking the right DNA structure; billions of the upright bipedal host beings a potencial harbringer of.

I blame my parents for all of their niavete; they had no idea what actually came out of that birth canal. Holding in one hand a Heiniken and the other an already lit Kool's menthal cigarette.