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Christians "The Book of Enoch", In or Out???

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posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by WanDash
 





Originally posted by WanDash
However - I found at least one troublesome bit, in the Book/s of Enoch, as follows:
One of the Watchers/Angels was punished "by God" for teaching the humans writing (to write)...but later, Enoch chose to "learn to write"...and...somewhere along the way, "God" obviously chose to use "writing" to get "His" message across to humanity, for an everlasting testament...

So - if it was "wrong"-enough, that one of the "Fallen Ones" was chastised without mercy for its introduction to humanity, in the first place...how could it become "right"-enough, for Enoch to use, to pass on his accounts, and/or for God to use to establish "His" accounts for an everlasting tribute and covenant?

Thus - if The Bible is to be counted flawless, I would consider the Book/s of Enoch unworthy of inclusion.



Firstly, thanks for your initial reply, and your appreciation of my other post.

But surely your reasoning for rejecting the “Book of Enoch”, would have to be applied across the board i.e. with the whole of the Bible as well? And any other written books.

Because, if all writing is evil, then none of it should be read at all. Not even this sentence…lol


My own personal view, is that the many Biblical accounts revolve around a struggle between fallen Angels and Righteous Angels; but that man doesn’t always know the difference between the 2.

I really don’t think the one true God, didn’t want man to learn to write; otherwise nothing in the Bible would have been preserved at all.


To reject Enoch then one must reject the Book of Mary, to go further must reject the entire Nag Hammati Library.
Shakespeare would say to this "If you accidently interpret an evil it will be of the written word, beware that which you put into your minds and speak through your mouths as a truth once written and then orally spoken for it is sure to be a fallacy". Fallen Angles/Angels what is the deal with them. Gabriel, Michael, Lucifer, just not figuring it out. Why should the human, they are the most righteous ones (survived the God Wars) and should be writing the books selling T-SHIRTS and turning a 20% profit. Equity in faith.
edit on 24-1-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 24 2013 @ 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by WanDash

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I would like to know the troublesome bit, which watcher/archangle (not misspelled) was punished and by what God Entity? Why was Enoch punished/banished beause it decided to to learn lanquage-not writing, at that time a cuniform clay writing expression was'nt even a thoughtform not yet...

As to these two questions...
"which watcher/archangle...was punished...?"
Regarding what I formerly detailed...the following:
Chapter 69 (verse 9...or so)...
Name - Penemue
"...And he instructed mankind in writing with ink and paper, and thereby many sinned from eternity to eternity..."
As to "by what God Entity?"... Don't know where you're going. If you're requesting information about what Christians (or Christianity) would believe in this regard, they would probably believe this to have been the one and only "God". If you want to know who I believe it might have been...that would be for another conversation, as I believe that would carry great potential for derailing the general direction established by the OP.

As to the second question - I didn't know that Enoch was punished/banished...so - couldn't answer the question even if I understood what it was.


Enoch was basically completely marginalized minimized (maybe not so much banished but put in an invisibilizer shrinkalator).

Did you write that? the formerly detailed Chapter 69(verse 9..or so) following? Name Penemue. Who instructed mankind in writing with ink and paper did thereby cause many to sin from eternity to eternity? Is there another way to construct these words because I make no sense of them. I need no information regarding the Christian. Are you saying Penemue is the True Christian God and not the other one called "WhatsIt'sname".

You know exactly where I am going with this. If you know something I don't know about Gods Identity, or are hiding information; I have $5.00 dollars American I can Western Union to you immediately to set all things right regarding misconceptions missed garden parties; and all of those funerals; (God is forever in the Prayers but is always a no show).

Here is a secret. All that read you myself included do so in an understanding of good will. For me personally you cause a reaction that is a platform for exposing of the Irony of existance I am sure OP has a different take.

Are we not all seekers of one kind or another; searching for the same thing? To help each other to understand this strange miriad/matrix called human existance? I will tell you now, I relate.
edit on 25-1-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by Joecroft
...But surely your reasoning for rejecting the “Book of Enoch”, would have to be applied across the board i.e. with the whole of the Bible as well? And any other written books.

Because, if all writing is evil, then none of it should be read at all. Not even this sentence…lol


My own personal view, is that the many Biblical accounts revolve around a struggle between fallen Angels and Righteous Angels; but that man doesn’t always know the difference between the 2.

I really don’t think the one true God, didn’t want man to learn to write; otherwise nothing in the Bible would have been preserved at all.

Thanks for the response.
I'm kind of "out of place" on this one, because, as was alluded to in my first post - my days "in the Church" are "former".
Conversely - I find the Book/s of Enoch, and of Jasher (etc...) perhaps as intoxicating as any of the texts that were canonized by "the Church".
When you talk of "one true God" - I don't think a "true God" could mess up on something as significant as this (rightness or wrongness of/for mankind to "write").



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by vethumanbeing
...Enoch was basically completely marginalized minimized (maybe not so much banished but put in an invisibilizer shrinkalator).

Did you write that? the formerly detailed Chapter 69(verse 9..or so) following? Name Penemue. Who instructed mankind in writing with ink and paper did thereby cause many to sin from eternity to eternity? Is there another way to construct these words because I make no sense of them. I need no information regarding the Christian. Are you saying Penemue is the True Christian God and not the other one called "WhatsIt'sname".

Responding to this as if you really are asking...me...
I agree about Enoch's 'marginalization... The Book of Jasher (at least, the one that is available to us, today) gives a great deal more info on the man - showing him to have been quite a mover & shaker in antiquity.

I simply excerpted the text from some online sources for Chapter 69 (etc...)...
Penemue was described as being one of the "Angels" punished...
Following is a link to "another" online resource that gives the same translation...and, you can see that "more" is said regarding "why" it was "wrong to write".
www.endtimeprophecy.net...

So - "no" - I am not saying Penemue is the Christian "God". According to this text, he was one of the "rebellious Watchers" that the "God" Enoch was referring to, punished.



You know exactly where I am going with this. If you know something I don't know about Gods Identity, or are hiding information; I have $5.00 dollars American I can Western Union to you immediately to set all things right regarding misconceptions missed garden parties; and all of those funerals; (God is forever in the Prayers but is always a no show).

What would I do with $5? A little too rich for my blood - but...for my part, it would be good to know these things, as well.



Here is a secret. All that read you myself included do so in an understanding of good will. For me personally you cause a reaction that is a platform for exposing of the Irony of existance I am sure OP has a different take.

Are we not all seekers of one kind or another; searching for the same thing? To help each other to understand this strange miriad/matrix called human existance? I will tell you now, I relate.

That may be true -- Wish I could find a way/reason to believe it. There are times, however, when I wonder if "the answer" isn't just as frightening as the question.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 05:21 PM
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Hi,

I think that once one carefully considers the Book of Enoch and the issues for the Watchers, then one begins to fill in the serious pieces that Bible omits. There was a lot of lost history between the times that Moses started his theme for One God, and the Enoch story begins to get the story more correct.

What is very important is to look at Enoch place in history and his genetics, and why he and Elijah were the only two the Gods took along with them when they departed Earth long before Moses got into the story. One can find the Enoch linage going back to the times of Adam and Eve, and the issues for the Creator Gods of Ancient Sumeria.

Keep fitting more and more pieces together and one soon finds lots of these huge massive stone monuments that no building company can duplicate in this age. Blocks so massive that nothing we know today can move them. When one gets to observations of those artifacts of history, one encounters those of superior intelligence with technology that has been long lost.

One discovers these Creator Gods were one in the same with Aliens from deep space, and they did genetics experiments on Earth way back in time and came up with Adam and Eve genetics that was partly derived from their own.

One also begins to find perhaps what Hitler and the NAZI's found with blonde Egyptian rulers for the first dynasty period, one finds King David was blonde with blue eyes, and one finds Jesus was blonde with pale blue eyes. This blonde signature turns up with ancient Mayans, and it is even in the issues of the Moron books on a tribe in South America. And one might begin to see why the advanced NAZI's had this issue for the Aryan's with their blonde hair and blue eyes and larger head sizes. Then one finds a like story from the Morons on a like blonde and blue eye tribe saved from annihilation in South America.

Almost everywhere the pyramids and ziggurats show up over a very long time line, and even more huge stone based areas in the Fertile Triangle zone, which legend links to landing zones. Such various items over this large span of history begins to tell us how this legend of the Gods was likely true in various ways. It appears history has distorted or lost that which was once well known and magnified by the retelling of various oral histories.

The truth of these Middle East religions is the Earth was once visited by those from the heavens, who sought to exploit living creatures for work and perhaps wealth. But to explain these narratives in such simple terms appears to have been a major threat against those that wanted to make more of these encounters that what occurred.

The Book of Enoch introduces folks to those better ways of stating the issues that pertained to these God beliefs and truths for humanities origins on Earth and how the fissile records appear to skip some steps in the ladder of evolution.

One can find these old areas that were the history of the beginnings for these Creator God's finest works down in what is called Iraq now and the areas of Ur and Eridu, and the two great rivers that surrounded the Garden of Eden. Names appear in the Sumerian Tablets that speak to these Watchers and three of them take prominence: Enlil, Enki, their father Anu.

Oddly enough, one of the Rivers of the Garden of Eden area was called Gihon, and that same name was given to the spring that was under the Solomon Temple and watered the Garden of the Gods down in the valley. One also finds this region supported a good deal of plant growth that involved boron minerals, and foods that contained the boron were grapes and grains, which was the issue for the Lord's Supper. John the Baptist also had a special thing for the waters of the Jordan River, which was also loaded with boron minerals.

Such is only part of the issues one can discover, if they begin to check all the details that the Book of Enoch can help them begin to discover!

I found it to be a highly important work for those seeking the highest truths on religions. Even the Moron's details get into some of these origins of the Creator God's offspring getting into South America and how America is a Promised Land in those works.

If you have a Bible----the first chapter needs to be the Book of Enoch so more of the rest of the story makes better sense!



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 05:34 PM
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WanDash; in all sincerity:

I am all in on the notion of Rebellious Watchers if they would take the $5.00 an hour and work for me exclusively I'd even throw in travel time and paid a lunch break. Job description? Find out who is stealing the ordourves before they get to the buffet table; as to the answer being as frightenning as the question; Welcome to the Human dilema or as I call it "So you want to Look into the deep ABYSS YELLOW?" A journey not to be taken lightly; as it will if one is courageous enough take you from falling into the rabbit hole perspective to a brand new awareness of who you actually are. I have witnessed some individuals experience total mental meltdowns attempting it (looking into the soul and either not finding an answer or seeing a truth too large).
edit on 25-1-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 06:17 PM
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reply to post by WanDash
 





Originally posted by WanDash
Conversely - I find the Book/s of Enoch, and of Jasher (etc...) perhaps as intoxicating as any of the texts that were canonized by "the Church".


Actually, in a round about way, you bring up an important point, because if there are a few books in the Bible, which don’t belong there, then they in turn, would prevent other books, which do belong, from being included.

Judging by your use of the word “intoxicating” lol I get the sense you’ve moved completely away from the Christian religion altogether.



Originally posted by WanDash
When you talk of "one true God" - I don't think a "true God" could mess up on something as significant as this (rightness or wrongness of/for mankind to "write").


But this is what I was alluding too, in my previous post about Angels.

For example:

A righteous angel, is sent from the “one true God”, to teach man to write. Another fallen Angels, then attacks said Angel. Then man writes down, that bad Angel, taught him to write, and that the good Angel chastised the other, for trying to teach him etc… This is what I meant, “by man doesn’t always know the difference between the 2” This is why, all books must be discerned very carefully IMO.



Originally posted by WanDash
Thanks for the response.
I'm kind of "out of place" on this one, because, as was alluded to in my first post - my days "in the Church" are "former".


Well, at least you accepted the “Book of Enoch”, and were all for it’s inclusion, back when you were a believer. So I guess you have helped in someway, to answer the questions in my OP.


- JC



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by vethumanbeing
WanDash; in all sincerity:
...as to the answer being as frightenning as the question; Welcome to the Human dilema or as I call it "So you want to Look into the deep ABYSS YELLOW?" A journey not to be taken lightly; as it will if one is courageous enough take you from falling into the rabbit hole perspective to a brand new awareness of who you actually are. I have witnessed some individuals experience total mental meltdowns attempting it (looking into the soul and either not finding an answer or seeing a truth too large).

Thanks again!
Look forward to seeing more of what you have to say (in other venues, as well).
I can only own-up to a brief glimpse...lasting 2+ years...that affected those around me in similar fashion, and coming away not knowing if I'd seen anything or everything.?
Total mental meltdown? Maybe. Never really walk away from it - just subdue it, to continue with what life remains.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by Joecroft
...Actually, in a round about way, you bring up an important point, because if there are a few books in the Bible, which don’t belong there, then they in turn, would prevent other books, which do belong, from being included.

Judging by your use of the word “intoxicating” lol I get the sense you’ve moved completely away from the Christian religion altogether.

"Intoxicating" may not have been the most appropriate selection...but...when I first read the books attributed to Jasher, Enoch, Noah, and others (sometimes called pseudepigrapha), some of what they alluded to was like "forbidden wine", opening up new possibilities I had not before counted...possible.



But this is what I was alluding too, in my previous post about Angels.
...example:
...A righteous angel, is sent from the “one true God”, to teach man to write. Another fallen Angels, then attacks said Angel. Then man writes down, that bad Angel, taught him to write, and that the good Angel chastised the other, for trying to teach him etc… This is what I meant, “by man doesn’t always know the difference between the 2” This is why, all books must be discerned very carefully IMO.

No way I could argue with this, as it seems to rely on/upon a "filter" specific to the reader (yourself, in this case). I could try to apply some "rule" that would allow me to see your "logic" throughout the entire text (of the Bible), but, I'm sure it is a highly developed & refined lens that needs more than one brute rule for proper application.


Well, at least you accepted the “Book of Enoch”, and were all for it’s inclusion, back when you were a believer. So I guess you have helped in someway, to answer the questions in my OP.

Only jumped into the thread because I was (and still am) enthralled with many ancient texts (writings - eeek!)...and, you didn't seem to get too many takers from your proposed "target audience".
Best Regards.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


The book of Enoch isn't considered inspired, not even the jews consider it as inspired. It's more or less a little more indepth about the antediluvian period (pre-flood) that wasn't well covered by Genesis, as is the book of Jasher.



posted on Jan, 25 2013 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by WanDash

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
WanDash; in all sincerity:
...as to the answer being as frightenning as the question; Welcome to the Human dilema or as I call it "So you want to Look into the deep ABYSS YELLOW?" A journey not to be taken lightly; as it will if one is courageous enough take you from falling into the rabbit hole perspective to a brand new awareness of who you actually are. I have witnessed some individuals experience total mental meltdowns attempting it (looking into the soul and either not finding an answer or seeing a truth too large).

Thanks again!
Look forward to seeing more of what you have to say (in other venues, as well).
I can only own-up to a brief glimpse...lasting 2+ years...that affected those around me in similar fashion, and coming away not knowing if I'd seen anything or everything.?
Total mental meltdown? Maybe. Never really walk away from it - just subdue it, to continue with what life remains.


Only one right now. You wide eyed as an innocent unabashedly caught a glimmer of LIFEFORCE CREATION in action and survived it. Venue Human. In thinking of such things; your moniker WanDash what does it mean? Same question goes for JoeCroft, AfterInfinity, Wandering Scribe, Akragon; Spiritofenoch,smithsumjub,GreatestIam.

I have a feeling you've peered in to the Abyss. Planted yourself so as not to fall. If you imagined you recognised Something and reeled back in ALARM Why is my maker not protecting me. You escaped a known that you can plan for in future as in your life is in your own hands. No Other.
edit on 26-1-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Only one right now. You wide eyed as an innocent unabashedly caught a glimmer of LIFEFORCE CREATION in action and survived it. Venue Human. In thinking of such things; your moniker WanDash what does it mean? Same question goes for JoeCroft, AfterInfinity, Wandering Scribe, Akragon; Spiritofenoch,smithsumjub,GreatestIam.

I have a feeling you've peered in to the Abyss. Planted yourself so as not to fall. If you imagined you recognised Something and reeled back in ALARM Why is my maker not protecting me. You escaped a known that you can plan for in future as in your life is in your own hands. No Other.

Nothing terribly enlightening about WanDash...and certainly nothing as esoteric as yours (read your explanation in another thread). It is an abbreviated combination of a two-word title for a book I was writing in the early 1990's... As of the date I "joined" ATS, I considered myself "a wanderer, looking for the answer to a question I couldn't remember".
Don't know that I've progressed much, since then (if any).
LIFEFORCE CREATION...
...recognised Something...
...escaped a known...
None of these give much solace or comfort...but...don't know that I expect such salves any more.
At one point I read of an explanation that seemed to give some hope/comfort, called "trickery of the Spirit". If that be the case, though, it would seem that "the Spirit" made a mistake, and wasted some really good "mo-jo" on a fairly generic no-body.
Any-Whoot - Have been reading through one of your threads, and am only to page 8 (or so).
Pleasure to make your acquaintance!



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Joecroft
 


The book of Enoch isn't considered inspired, not even the jews consider it as inspired. It's more or less a little more indepth about the antediluvian period (pre-flood) that wasn't well covered by Genesis, as is the book of Jasher.


LONE WOLF. Realize that would be an outcast from the Pack. In General, a Beta MALE, females always seductive caregivers. Beta males WEAK and removed by a flashing of grinning teeth (alpha male) THREAT.

Cannot Bark can sound though.
Um Hum. And I am supposed to sober up Eater of Fleshiness Dog Spirit not WORTHY.
Oh, you master of the spirit form and its drinkablity. Which Jew, where and of what theosophy? Wailing Wall? Critic; tears blubbering about a messiah NEVER idealized (IN FRONT OF THERE OWN EYES)? Enoch would never have prescribed admitted to an affiliation with anything so uninspired. I would like to know, what is your take on the inspirational donkey bearing loaded fixer of the human? I can name one. Yeshua Ben Joseph.
A shill, lost and forsaken.

You hate and distrust WHY?

Appologies required here - (in another thread an innocent FRT fabricator) Lone Wolf accused me of being (mybeing) a Drunken Sailer Type lost at sea and looking for the afterthought of God; IAMIAM an expert dogpaddler. Are you looking for or after good graces sought? I have the notion to spit now.
edit on 26-1-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 





Originally posted by Lonewolf19792000
The book of Enoch isn't considered inspired, not even the jews consider it as inspired. It's more or less a little more indepth about the antediluvian period (pre-flood) that wasn't well covered by Genesis, as is the book of Jasher.


Yes, it would seem from my research that the Jewish people of the day, were clearly apposed to it. Although many disagreed with this perspective, which some historical accounts clearly show.

The question I’m asking in my OP is, do you think it’s inspired and should it have been included into the Bible etc… and if so, then why?, or if not, then why not?

Those who think it should be in, have given excellent reasons, as to why they think this. Those who think it should be out, with the exception of “Thought Provoker”, “windword” and “WanDash”, have given the simply reason, that it contains contradictions…

I’ve asked these other posters, who stated this, what, if any, are these major contradictions in the book, when compared to the Bible, which would prevented it from being included etc… And so far, no response; so they’ve either taken a 2 day Holiday, or are finding it very difficult, to point out, what these major conflicting contradictions are?

- JC
edit on 26-1-2013 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 





Originally posted by verthumanbeing
Only one right now. You wide eyed as an innocent unabashedly caught a glimmer of LIFEFORCE CREATION in action and survived it. Venue Human. In thinking of such things; your moniker WanDash what does it mean? Same question goes for JoeCroft, AfterInfinity, Wandering Scribe, Akragon; Spiritofenoch,smithsumjub,GreatestIam.



Thats quite an esteemed list of names lol you got there…I wonder why you chose only those names; for there are many other religious posters here on ATS.

Anyway, I appreciate your input on this thread, and it’s a very interesting question, which I don’t mind answering in full…but just not here, on this thread, as I feel it would be way of topic for this discussion.

But by all means, feel free to set up a thread asking that question, and I will personally explain my user name handle choice…


- JC
edit on 26-1-2013 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by WanDash
 





Originally posted by WanDash
No way I could argue with this, as it seems to rely on/upon a "filter" specific to the reader (yourself, in this case). I could try to apply some "rule" that would allow me to see your "logic" throughout the entire text (of the Bible), but, I'm sure it is a highly developed & refined lens that needs more than one brute rule for proper application.



But the thing is, there are much bigger contradictions in the Bible, as it currently stands, in comparison to the “book or Enoch”. And yet we have apologists, with their own set of “logically refined lenses”, from varying denominations, to explain away, these apparent contradictions. So unless a book has major conflicting contradictions, to the Bible overall, which IMO “the Book of Enoch” does not, then they should be included.

And on the topic of contradictions, it would really have to be something pretty major IMO, for it not to be included. And so far, I don’t think “windword’s”, or “Thought Provoker’s”, or your own reason for its non-inclusion, are really strong enough reasons, to discount it; mainly because there exist far bigger! contradictions, in various other books in the Bible, as things currently stand.

And oddly enough, it is the “Book of Enoch”, which actually helps in the clearing up, of many contradictions within the Bible.


- JC



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 




Book of Enoch Chapter 7
1It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.

2And when the angels, (3) the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.




Genesis1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Genesis 5:2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man."

Genesis 2:21-24 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23 The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”

24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
Mathew 22:30 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Mathew 12:25 25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Luke 20:34-36 34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

Mathew 19:4-6 4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”


In the beginning he made them male and female, said both in Genesis and by Jesus. God took woman out of man, this is what Adam says. When Adam was first created he was in unity both male and female just like God and the Angels in heaven, who will neither marry nor be given in marriage.



Genesis 6:1-22 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.


Nephilim; So they are either some mystical combination of an Angel who is both male and female in gender, and a human wife, or the Nephilim is just a term used for the men of renown at the time. Men like MLK, and Einstein.

The way I read the above message is quite simple. Adam was made in God's image both male and female. Eve, the female part of Adam was removed from Adam to create Eve. Thus making two out of what was one. This is why we become one flesh when we remarry. Adam is essentially being re-united to Eve, through marriage. Nephilim is simply a term, only used once in a bible that could be translated to Genius.

If you can see the simplicity in what I am saying then you can understand that the simplest conclusion, which appears to be supported by biblical definition of men, women, and marriage, is probable the correct interpretation.

Or you can continue to fantasize about some strange sexual arrangement between Angels and women.
edit on 26-1-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by WanDash

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Only one right now. You wide eyed as an innocent unabashedly caught a glimmer of LIFEFORCE CREATION in action and survived it. Venue Human. In thinking of such things; your moniker WanDash what does it mean? Same question goes for JoeCroft, AfterInfinity, Wandering Scribe, Akragon; Spiritofenoch,smithsumjub,GreatestIam.

I have a feeling you've peered in to the Abyss. Planted yourself so as not to fall. If you imagined you recognised Something and reeled back in ALARM Why is my maker not protecting me. You escaped a known that you can plan for in future as in your life is in your own hands. No Other.

Nothing terribly enlightening about WanDash...and certainly nothing as esoteric as yours (read your explanation in another thread). It is an abbreviated combination of a two-word title for a book I was writing in the early 1990's... As of the date I "joined" ATS, I considered myself "a wanderer, looking for the answer to a question I couldn't remember".
Don't know that I've progressed much, since then (if any).
LIFEFORCE CREATION...
...recognised Something...
...escaped a known...
None of these give much solace or comfort...but...don't know that I expect such salves any more.
At one point I read of an explanation that seemed to give some hope/comfort, called "trickery of the Spirit". If that be the case, though, it would seem that "the Spirit" made a mistake, and wasted some really good "mo-jo" on a fairly generic no-body.
Any-Whoot - Have been reading through one of your threads, and am only to page 8 (or so).
Pleasure to make your acquaintance!


Looking for an answer; and not remembering the question. Brilliant because it is so true. You are not alone in these musings; believe me. A mistake made is a smack to the face; thereby allowing more room to fathom or illuminate a real truth as in (got rid of that one; a falacy) onward and upward.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by Joecroft
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 





Originally posted by verthumanbeing
Only one right now. You wide eyed as an innocent unabashedly caught a glimmer of LIFEFORCE CREATION in action and survived it. Venue Human. In thinking of such things; your moniker WanDash what does it mean? Same question goes for JoeCroft, AfterInfinity, Wandering Scribe, Akragon; Spiritofenoch,smithsumjub,GreatestIam.



Thats quite an esteemed list of names lol you got there…I wonder why you chose only those names; for there are many other religious posters here on ATS.

Anyway, I appreciate your input on this thread, and it’s a very interesting question, which I don’t mind answering in full…but just not here, on this thread, as I feel it would be way of topic for this discussion.

But by all means, feel free to set up a thread asking that question, and I will personally explain my user name handle choice…


- JC
edit on 26-1-2013 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)


Just doing some buttering up. Reason for the namecalling (out) they/you actually have a reply to my sometimes inane yet sincere postings.



posted on Jan, 26 2013 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Joecroft
But the thing is, there are much bigger contradictions in the Bible, as it currently stands, in comparison to the “book or Enoch”. And yet we have apologists, with their own set of “logically refined lenses”, from varying denominations, to explain away, these apparent contradictions. So unless a book has major conflicting contradictions, to the Bible overall, which IMO “the Book of Enoch” does not, then they should be included.

And on the topic of contradictions, it would really have to be something pretty major IMO, for it not to be included. And so far, I don’t think “windword’s”, or “Thought Provoker’s”, or your own reason for its non-inclusion, are really strong enough reasons, to discount it; mainly because there exist far bigger! contradictions, in various other books in the Bible, as things currently stand.

And oddly enough, it is the “Book of Enoch”, which actually helps in the clearing up, of many contradictions within the Bible.
- JC

Entirely agree with your argument/s.
Going back to "The Book of Jasher"... If "The Bible" is "the inspired, immutable, unchangeable (etc...)" Word of God...and at any point, it seeks to validate one or more claims, by referencing another work (not included in "The Bible")...it has now limited its degree of "purity" to the degree of purity associated with the "un-included work".
This seems logical to me.
If not to you - would like to know where you (or anyone-else) see the weakness in this argument.
Thanks!





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