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As long time members and posters on this sub-forum are so sadly aware of, not a week goes by that someone of a fervent religious belief posts here decrying Masonry or other esoteric or fraternal groups as evil/malicious/detrimental/etc, and then resorts to tactics that would be considered hypocritical to their professed religion.

They are typically the same types of attacks;

Quoting authors out of context (Pike, Hall, etc) despite using know hoaxes or out of context paragraphs

Quoting non-Masons as speaking for Masons even when it is demonstrated that they are not members

Lying about membership to try and 'prove' a point

Attaching significance to the Scottish Rite Degrees as somehow more 'authoritative'

Alleging 'high-level' Masons run everything without ever identifying who these 'high-level' persons are

Lying about aspects of Masonic ritual to suit a conspiracy

Claiming that Masons who are also members of their religion are not 'true' Chrisitians, Jews, Muslims, etc

Lying about Masons worshipping something other than God

Claiming Masonry is Satanic/Luciferian/demonic

Claiming Masonry promotes pedophilia

and just basically making up anything to twist the truth to fit their narrow mindset

My question to all of you who exercise these tactics is that what your god, prophet, savior, etc would/has encouraged you to do and if not why do you take such a tact?

Is it the relative freedom of anonymity that posting on the internet allows you?

I personally feel it is your weakness and insecurity with your own faith that you need to attack others who you perceive as not being the same as you.

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Oh stop promoting it. People can think and say what they want about religions, philosophies, secret orders, occults, cults etc. Stop with the thought police nonsense.
Besides what makes you think that atheists dont feel the same way religious zealots do. And who are you to judge who is a religious zealot and who is not.And besides this its up to you freemasons to put right, but we dont care. Hey there are pedophiles in many groups, socities, cultures. There are problems in MANY groups, socieities, cultures etc.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
People can think and say what they want about religions, philosophies, secret orders, occults, cults etc.

No one says they cannot say what they want. I am just tired of the hypocrisy. If you are going to tell me that your 'religion' is the path to 'truth' or some other such pile of horses**t then maybe the person advocating the change in paradigms should not be lying through their teeth.

Besides what makes you think that atheists dont feel the same way religious zealots do.

A hardcore atheist is no different from any other hardcore idealogue, religious or otherwise.

And who are you to judge who is a religious zealot and who is not.

Stick around for a few years and you will be able to judge rather quickly.

And besides this its up to you freemasons to put right, but we dont care.

Do you have a reading comprehension issue? Where in my Original Post did I say that Masons want to 'put right'?

Hey there are pedophiles in many groups, socities, cultures. There are problems in MANY groups, socieities, cultures etc.

No kidding. Maybe the religious wacknuts should focus on where the real problems are.

Yes, I understand. Christianity has many problems. Namely, the bloody history of mass killings of others, the mass forced conversion of others, the money grubbers etc.

Religion certainly has no room to speak to the Mason agenda. Whatever that means. I think they would do well to clean up their own house before they start trying to clean others peoples houses. Regarding the big three religions, their own texts say that Gods judgement starts with the believers before it goes anywhere else.

I don't know enough about the Masons to judge them. I know some things my uncle told me long ago. Other than that, the Masons I know are friendly and helpful people. Every single one. If that's what their organization produces, then please, by all means, keep the lodges open.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
Yes, I understand. Christianity has many problems. Namely, the bloody history of mass killings of others, the mass forced conversion of others, the money grubbers etc.

This is not just relagated to Christianity though. However, as Christians are the preponderance of the populace in the United States, and this being a forum located here, the vast majority of religious hypocrisy stems from Christian posters who obviously forgot some of the basic tenets of their professed religion.

Well, this is part of a larger issue. That is the exoteric layer of religion vs the esoteric layer, in general. Orthodoxy vs mysticism. Structure vs anti-structure. Religion is institutionalized mysticism, and mysticism can't be contained for long by any structure. Sooner or later it breaks out.

“This is my only and permanent complaint, that vulgar people, empty of the Spirit of God, want to judge solely by their human thinking what they listen to or read in the Bible, which has been pronounced and written by the Holy Spirit and in the Holy Spirit.” - Meister Eckhart

Originally posted by BlueMule
Well, this is part of a larger issue. That is the exoteric layer of religion vs the esoteric in general. Orthodoxy vs mysticism.

I think it is even baser than that; ignorance and fear versus the dissimilar.

Every organization ever formed is prone to having bad people come in and try to use it for their own gain. And obviously organizations exist to benefit from their members.

Also this is why I am agnostic. I admit I dont know of unknowable things.

You have good and bad anytime more than a few people gather.
No surprise there.

Obviously the more people involved, the higher the incidence rate would be.

I like to judge people individually rather than by fictitous group association anyways its far more accurate.

And I have always liked you personally Augustus. You have always been cool towards me and helped me find a lot of answers that were difficult to find. Oh and you were always patient with me when I got upset and ranted lol.

I cant say that about many other folks of any stripe.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Every organization ever formed is prone to having bad people come in and try to use it for their own gain. And obviously organizations exist to benefit from their members.

This is true. The conflict arises when proponents of said orginization use scurrilous tactics in an attempt to prove a point.

And I have always liked you personally Augustus. You have always been cool towards me and helped me find a lot of answers that were difficult to find. Oh and you were always patient with me when I got upset and ranted lol.

I think that is because you are open-minded about yourself and others, espouse the motto of this site and are always willing to alter or change your opinions based solely on the facts.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by BlueMule
Well, this is part of a larger issue. That is the exoteric layer of religion vs the esoteric in general. Orthodoxy vs mysticism.

I think it is even baser than that; ignorance and fear versus the dissimilar.

Ignorance leads to fear of unknown.

Many people absolutely refuse to learn new info even if its blatantly in their face for free too, usually because it disputes their limited belief system or because they simply ' dont like ' the message or even the messenger.

Sad state of affairs.

It isnt ignorance and fear. I dont like Masonary , from a Masons perspective. Not from the Christian-masonary haters etc. But from your own groups view of masonary I do not like it. Am I forced to like other cults, occults? I dont think so. I can believe what I like. I chose my own path.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Ignorance leads to fear of unknown.

Many people absolutely refuse to learn new info even if its blatantly in their face for free too, usually because it disputes their limited belief system or because they simply ' dont like ' the message or even the messenger.

That is exactly my point. People come here, armed with their regurgitated 'facts', have them countered with substantative evidence and still perpetuate and support the lie they originally came with.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
I dont like Masonary , from a Masons perspective.

So are you saying you are a former Mason?

But from your own groups view of masonary I do not like it.

What is our 'own groups view of Masonry'?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

I think that is because you are open-minded about yourself and others, espouse the motto of this site and are always willing to alter or change your opinions based solely on the facts.

I try but its difficult as beliefs are very easy to get attached to.

I have to renew the assault on my beliefs daily and question them closely.

If I am not changing my mind often the red flags and alarm bells start going off.
I have a long way to go still, I have no problem admitting this.

Most of what I believe probably isnt true so of course I want to know and resolve that crisis.
Aint easy at all.
Gotta always question thine self, always.

Now...how to convince others to question themselves....thats even more difficult!

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
It isnt ignorance and fear. I dont like Masonary , from a Masons perspective. Not from the Christian-masonary haters etc. But from your own groups view of masonary I do not like it. Am I forced to like other cults, occults? I dont think so. I can believe what I like. I chose my own path.

Balance is the key.

We may not like a message, and we may not like the messenger...

But it is wise to keep an open mind and consider things from alternative viewpoints.

The moment we close our minds as a result of prejudice, we are in dire straights.

You do weirdo rituals. Nothing normal about grown men in rooms doing these passage rites to get to another level to better understand themselves and the world. I am not going into the Masons writings that I have read. Thats abit boring for me, but I will say that really I am not attracted to freemasonary. I was at first intrigued and then just thought, ah okay, their abit like christians ... wait ... in that they peform rituals that think help them improves theirselves. I wont go into details. I know freemasons stuff they have said, those odd little white cloths you wear around the waist. Its all rather looney to me. But then I just prefer to go about my day to day working out what is good and right, by seeing what is bad. Plus dont deny you have men in high places, and you band togeather at times. In secret.

On issue of Christian zealots documenting what they feel you get up to, Ive read a little of this too. Of course their version is more intrigueing then the masons version simply for the reason they have NO secrets when talking about masonary. But masons are a little guarded. Thats just part of being in a mostly secret society.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
I try but its difficult as beliefs are very easy to get attached to.

I have to renew the assault on my beliefs daily and question them closely.

I completely understand.

I have gone through a few spiritual beliefs in my life, all the changes were due to examination of the belief system itself and research.

If I were to find compelling reasons or evidence that could alter my perspective in a rational manner I would change from what I am now without hesitation.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
You do weirdo rituals.

SInce you are not a Mason yourself what aspects are 'weird'?

Plus dont deny you have men in high places, and you band togeather at times. In secret.

What high places? Who are they? See the Original Post for this exact tactic.

...they have NO secrets when talking about masonary. But masons are a little guarded. Thats just part of being in a mostly secret society.

Other than five passwords and handshakes and some minor candidiate preperation aspects, I have no secrets. What is it that you want to know?