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Vatican Sides with Obama on Gun Control

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posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 




I'm not sure why you keep making this about Vatican City as a "country" when this is about The Pope as the head of a Religion.

It's about a religious leader speaking out (as Jesus would have done) against guns and gun violence and for some reason ( I wonder why) you're actually twisting it to be about one country talking to another.
This is about a religious view on Guns.

Jesus would have abhorred guns because their sole intention is to kill, that's it.

I'm sure he'd be all for battering a thief and whooping someone with a bat if they broke in and threatened your family... but gunning them down with an M16?? Na, you'd go to hell for that.




posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by blupblup
 


The loony tunes anit-gun lobbyists just simply loves to make use of religious pacificism as support for banning weapons.

If religious pacificism is the rule, then humanity would have ceased to exists long ago.

Religion teaches us tolerance and patience. But at some point, when one and one's loved ones are threatened with deadly force by others, there is no religion that teaches you to lie down, roll over and be dead.

Religion's focus is not on wars, but on how to NOT start wars and crimes, if we but follow moral and ethical guidelines that it teaches.

Mankind is flawed, but some progress had been made, with much to do inorder for us all to achieve Utopia.

But let us not kid ourselves that we are living in Utopia now, as the foolish anti-gun lobbyists and the pope does. We still have to defend ourselves effectively, or none of us will be left to see Utopia.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


It is not that I SAY religion is separate. It is THAT CATHOLICS say so.

You are not Catholic so you wouldn't understand, though I fail to see how you don't after I explained it several times. You should ask more instead of make statements about a subject you know so little about.

The Pope MAY say anything he wants to on a personal level but officially the Vatican can not because it contradicts its intended purpose on earth. JESUS didn't make a human rights group. He made a faith so as to save our souls from Gods judgement. That is what we are taught. like it or not.

That is why the church has always had problems with its stance on contraceptives since it goes against dogma and many refuse to follow it. It has NOTHING to do with the salvation of souls. Again it is a worldly affair.

This is the reason why the church did not get involved in WW2 either. Non of our business from a Catholic POV.

sorry that is our way.....like it or not.


edit on 20-1-2013 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 10:58 AM
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I have found most of the posters on this forum despise the Vatican and everything it stands for, except when they side with Obama,




posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:00 AM
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The Vatican is a country BTW...I think the only country that is smaller is Lichtenstein...I might be wrong so don't quote me on that.

FF, I can honestly see your point...I really do. I also understand us "silly humans" tend to cling to the ethereal...we somehow "need" to believe there is something more...a "reason" for our lives. This is where it all breaks down. Perhaps there is...perhaps there isn't. We will not know until we take that dirt nap...for each individual...there will be a different answer.

I am not a fool. I can look back across history and see the atrocities committed in the name of God...pretty sad stuff and such a huge loss of knowledge and progress. Was this "really" in the best interest of God?...I seriously doubt it...it was in the interest of King's and Emperors...the best interest of those "in charge".

The Vatican has been shown time and again to be a puppet for the powers that be. Hell, the Church of England grew out of a disdain for the corruption in the heart of Catholicism...who would have thunk it? That Henry might have actually been onto something though he ended up mucking the whole thing up for all the wrong reasons.

There is a super elite few trying to control the minds and consciousness of the entire world...and they are slowly doing it. They are using every tool they can find and...to be honest...it is working. They are so good at manipulating people...that 99.9% do not even realize it is happening. Sadness really.

All I have to say or offer is this. Do what your heart says is right...live like you think is best and do not listen to the Gov...regardless what country you live in...they are not your friends. Just remember the warning from ole Ronald Reagan...the scariest thing you can ever hear is "I am from the Government and I am here to help"....



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by blupblup
 


The same Jesus that kicked out the merchants from the temple amid cussing and slashes with a whip....

OR

the same Jesus that hung out with armed apostles who chop off Roman ears......

That Jesus?



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by blupblup
I'm not sure why you keep making this about Vatican City as a "country" when this is about The Pope as the head of a Religion.

- Vatican City is a country.
- The Pope is head of a country AND head of a religion
- The country of Vatican City is pushing it's own agenda on another country.


It's about a religious leader speaking out (as Jesus would have done) against guns and gun violence ...

... OR it's about one euro-centric country pushing it's agenda on another.

you're actually twisting it to be about one country talking to another.

I'm not twisting anything. What it is exactly is one country pushing it's agenda on another country. That's something the left wing usually gets uptight about when America does it to other countries. But for some reason, it's okay with them when the country of The Vatican does it to America since it fits their left winganti-gun agenda??


This is about a religious view on Guns.

mmmmm .... no. Doubt it. The Vatican didn't come out and say that they are against law abiding American citizens exercising their 2nd Amendment Constitutional right to self protection with handguns because of religious reasons. And even if they did ... it's still none of their business and it still would be pushing their agenda onto another country.


Jesus would have abhorred guns because their sole intention is to kill, that's it.

Says you. Show us in scripture where Jesus told people to allow themselves to be murdered when in fact they could protect themselves??


I'm sure he'd be all for battering a thief and whooping someone with a bat if they broke in and threatened your family... but gunning them down with an M16?? Na, you'd go to hell for that.

Almost all law abiding American citizens who own guns for home protection do NOT have M16s. A 45 or a 9 mil ... sure .. but not an M16.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:18 AM
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Since the looney tunes anti lobbyists brigage are here to sadly mis-interpretate religion for their own personal use, and make religious pacificism as their own agenda, lets do a test.

Tell the pope to disband his well armed swiss bodyguards and trash his bullet proof caged car he stands on while in public.

Afterall, it is only about religious pacificism, he should be the role model and poster boy for gun bans, and lead by example.

But would he? I doubt so, nor do I want it to be so, for I am a realist and know it is not a religious pacificist issue and that we do not live in Utopia today.

The insane and the criminals still exists today and had not cared about who they are targetting, regardless of high or low. So why are only the high gets extra protection while the low are not allowed even guns to protect themselves or the nation when all are equal?
edit on 20-1-2013 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 





it's about one euro-centric country pushing it's agenda on another.


Zactly.......



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by beezzer
 


Usually, the Holy See and I are pretty much on the same page. And I can see how they could decry violence. As would any sane person.

But I'm not willing to give up any of my freedoms just yet. So on this topic, the Padre and I are going to respectfully disagree.


What would Jesus say?

Would you respectfully disagree with him too?
edit on 1/20/2013 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)


Yeah, but then again, I'm an imperfect human being and Jesus is the Son of God.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by Jeremiah65
The Vatican has been shown time and again to be a puppet for the powers that be.

There ya' go. Exactly.

Do what your heart says is right...live like you think is best and do not listen to the Gov...regardless what country you live in...they are not your friends.

Again -
. My heart and common sense say that self protection is the right thing to do. It also tells me that there are political (non religious) elements in the euro-centric Vatican that are NOT friendly towards Americans. Just because the Vatican SAYS it is doing God's work .. that doesn't mean its true in all cases. Their track record isn't the best ...

Just remember the warning from ole Ronald Reagan...the scariest thing you can ever hear is "I am from the Government and I am here to help"....

VERY TRUE!



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by zedVSzardoz
 


What we have here - is a failure to communicate

I'm just not sure if it's happenstance or deliberate

Forget about the Pope then (though that's what this thread is about)

Forget about what the Pope may or may not have to do with Jesus (which is also - what this thread is about)

Convince me - religion should have nothing to do with gun control?

It either does have something to do with it - or nothing at all - please explain which

I'm seriously asking

edit on 1/20/2013 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


It doesn't matter if it is a .22 or a M60. A weapon is a weapon that kills, either in agression or in defence, as it is intended for.

The only issue is that in most law abidding households, those weapons are meant for defence, while the insane and the criminals uses it for agression.

It is the insane and the criminals we mankind have to deal with FIRST, if we are to eradicate weapons, and not the other way around by disarming law abidding citizens.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:27 AM
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Worth special note ---


Originally posted by blupblup
It's about a religious leader speaking out (as Jesus would have done) against guns and gun violence ...

If the Vatican really cared about violence with guns, it would attack the REASON for the violence .... mental health issues. It wouldn't be trying to disarm law abiding citizens from their self protection. It would go after the SOURCE of the problems .. mental health problems.

Instead, their stand on disarming law abiding American citizens of their Constitutionally promised right to self protection via firearms will do nothing except cause more law abiding citizens to die because they won't be able to protect themselves.

The Vatican will cause MORE deaths with their stand .. not less.

Therefore, I have to conclude that they are either NWO stooges or they are people with heads full of cotton candy and are clueless as to the reality of the situation. Either way .. they are dead wrong.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by beezzer
 


Usually, the Holy See and I are pretty much on the same page. And I can see how they could decry violence. As would any sane person.

But I'm not willing to give up any of my freedoms just yet. So on this topic, the Padre and I are going to respectfully disagree.


What would Jesus say?

Would you respectfully disagree with him too?
edit on 1/20/2013 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)


Yeah, but then again, I'm an imperfect human being and Jesus is the Son of God.


That's a lawyers answer beezzer

Was hoping to get a personal, meaningful answer - but I see that's not to be - not in this thread

thanks anyway



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:28 AM
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This is fricken priceless. A couple of weeks ago everyone was up in arms that the gov't forced a Christian that owns a company to provide abortion drugs. EVERYONE was SO upset. How dare the gov't interfere with a persons faith? Now here's a religion that is supporting a gov't endeavor and it's OH SO WRONG!!! Pick and choose. Man, what have we become?
edit on 20-1-2013 by intrepid because: Clarity.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
It is the insane and the criminals we mankind have to deal with FIRST, if we are to eradicate weapons, and not the other way around by disarming law abidding citizens.

Exactly .. the source of the problem is mental health and thuggery. Guns aren't the problem. Guns are used by the law abiding public to SAVE LIVES. Take them away from the law abiding public and MORE people will die .. not less.

I fully agree. If the Vatican really wants to save lives then they can 'help' with mental health issues and thuggery end of it .. NOT take away people's self protection.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid
This is fricken priceless. A couple of weeks ago everyone was up in arms that the gov't forced a Christian that owns a company to provide abortion drugs. EVERYONE was SO upset. How dare the gov't interfere with a persons faith? Now here's a religion that is supporting a gov't endeavor and it's OH SO WRONG!!! Pick and choose. Man, what have we become?
edit on 20-1-2013 by intrepid because: Clarity.


I'd say the same thing about the gun-control crowd. With their "it's for the children" yet glorify in abortion.

Face it, intrepid. The world is screwed up.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Now here's a religion that is supporting a gov't endeavor and it's OH SO WRONG!!! Pick and choose.

Here's a COUNTRY that is interfering in the workings of another COUNTRY. Eurocentric and former Hitler-Youth Pope Benedict needs to clean up his own mess (pedophiles, Vatican Bank, etc) before pushing his anti-gun agenda on the USA.

If he had his way he'd disarm the law abiding citizens leaving the criminals to have the guns. The idiot would cause MORE deaths .. not less.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by intrepid
This is fricken priceless. A couple of weeks ago everyone was up in arms that the gov't forced a Christian that owns a company to provide abortion drugs. EVERYONE was SO upset. How dare the gov't interfere with a persons faith? Now here's a religion that is supporting a gov't endeavor and it's OH SO WRONG!!! Pick and choose. Man, what have we become?
edit on 20-1-2013 by intrepid because: Clarity.


I'd say the same thing about the gun-control crowd. With their "it's for the children" yet glorify in abortion.


Apples and oranges. What would the Vatican say about abortion?



Face it, intrepid. The world is screwed up.


That my friend is a sad but true fact.





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