Vatican Sides with Obama on Gun Control

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posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
Forget about the Pope then (though that's what this thread is about)

Forget about what the Pope may or may not have to do with Jesus (which is also - what this thread is about)

Convince me - religion should have nothing to do with gun control?

It either does have something to do with it - or nothing at all - please explain which

I'm seriously asking

edit on 1/20/2013 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)


You raised an interesting question, and hope you may allow me to reply.

Religion teaches mankind a set of moral and ethical guidelines to follow inorder to progress and evolve.

Unfortunately, there are some elements of humanity that refuses to follow such guidelines and had sought to carve their own paths that pits itself with the very guidelines majority of humanity follows.

The use of force is their way, and thus for mankind to stand still is to be eradicated by them.

The pope's stand on gun control on the law abidding is unfortunately, only supporting these elements and detracting far from the religion that he was supposed to be teaching.




posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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Catholic Priests are a leading cause of child rape. We should ban the priests. It's for the children!

I agree with Seeker on this one. Well said, man. All of you that are saying that Jesus would be in favor of banning guns, I suggest you pick up a bible and go back and read. Pacifists don't tell their followers to sell their cloak and buy swords. Pacifists don't get all WWE inside the temples when they see how much of a circus Sabbath had become.

I'm through arguing this topic. I get better results from arguing with my cat. Molon Labe.

You cannot put rights to a vote. Only privileges.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
The pope's stand on gun control on the law abidding is unfortunately, only supporting these elements and detracting far from the religion that he was supposed to be teaching.

Fully agree.

His job is to preach salvation and faith to the Catholic faithful. It's NOT supposed to be for him to push his agenda on other countries. Trying to take guns away from law abiding citizens in the USA has NOTHING to do with salvation and it has nothing to do with helping the poor etc etc. It's just going to cause innocent people to die.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
- Vatican City is a country.
- The Pope is head of a country AND head of a religion
- The country of Vatican City is pushing it's own agenda on another country.




You can make it about Two countries if you like... you have an agenda and have a very warped, nasty and twisted view of the world.... you can't handle that the Pope is speaking out against something that you agree with so instead of talking about what it is... a RELIGIOUS issue, you're dishonestly making it about a Country issue.

Completely dishonest and pathetic.





I'm not twisting anything. What it is exactly is one country pushing it's agenda on another country. That's something the left wing usually gets uptight about when America does it to other countries. But for some reason, it's okay with them when the country of The Vatican does it to America since it fits their left winganti-gun agenda??



You keep saying Euro-centric like it means something..... The Pope IS European, the Vatican IS in EUROPE.

Sheesh...







mmmmm .... no. Doubt it. The Vatican didn't come out and say that they are against law abiding American citizens exercising their 2nd Amendment Constitutional right to self protection with handguns because of religious reasons. And even if they did ... it's still none of their business and it still would be pushing their agenda onto another country.




And ANYONE who calls for less killings, less guns and less "Machine guns" whether in their own country, another country, for religious reasons or just humane reasons, is a good person who wants people to not get shot.



edit on 20/1/13 by blupblup because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:43 AM
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Dogmatic faith has led us down some pretty nasty paths that I abhor.If Jesus does return I would feel safe to say the avatar of the prime creator would simply alter reality to suit his will,having said that I can't begin to define him because I am human.I know his words but as to how he would feel about guns, would be like asking us how we feel about ants ability to sting.
When the bad guys stop their work.ALL OF THEM then I will stop defending my little patch of earth. I won't be enjoined by activists or political hacks who have no idea what the world outside their little, tiny, myopic fish bowl is like.I was in a war and that will not happen here,nobody will grab people and murder them En masse in mass graves because I and my "kind" would destroy them.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by intrepid
Now here's a religion that is supporting a gov't endeavor and it's OH SO WRONG!!! Pick and choose.

Here's a COUNTRY that is interfering in the workings of another COUNTRY. Eurocentric and former Hitler-Youth Pope Benedict needs to clean up his own mess (pedophiles, Vatican Bank, etc) before pushing his anti-gun agenda on the USA.


I have to say, mate, it's a bit rich being outraged about another country having - god forbid - something to say about American politics. America is quite literally fighting two wars to influence the politics of other countries as we speak.

Also, you seem very keen on the word 'eurocentric' but it has nothing at all to do with this discussion. Guns are perfectly legal in pretty much every European country - subject to local restrictions. And so what if the Vatican is 'eurocentric'? It's a European country, and there's about 750,000,000 of us Europeans. That's almost three Europeans to every American.

For me personally, the whole Vatican thing is a shady organisation motivated by religious supremacy, as such I don't give a fig what it has to say about anything - so why should you? Because it's critiscising America this time?

The way you state your case, no-one has a right to say anything unless their own affairs are squeaky clean. Do you think America's are? I'd suggest the existence of extra rendition and a legal black hole on an enemy Communist island are evidence that they're not.

Listen, I like America and Americans, but the way some of you think you are beyond critiscism or reproach is laughable.

Peace.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by zedVSzardoz


the same Jesus that hung out with armed apostles who chop off Roman ears......

That Jesus?



Didn`t Jesus rebuke Peter* for chopping off that ear ?



What if Peter* had been armed with a gun instead of a sword ? (A Tarantino - style re-imaging of the Gethsemane incident ) Jesus would of been raising soldiers from the dead,rather than having to attach a solitary ear.

______
Please forgive my flight of fancy




* edit:
Thanks
intrepid
edit on 20-1-2013 by UmbraSumus because: To change Paul to Peter



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
Forget about the Pope then (though that's what this thread is about)

Forget about what the Pope may or may not have to do with Jesus (which is also - what this thread is about)

Convince me - religion should have nothing to do with gun control?

It either does have something to do with it - or nothing at all - please explain which

I'm seriously asking

edit on 1/20/2013 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)


You raised an interesting question, and hope you may allow me to reply.

Religion teaches mankind a set of moral and ethical guidelines to follow inorder to progress and evolve.

Unfortunately, there are some elements of humanity that refuses to follow such guidelines and had sought to carve their own paths that pits itself with the very guidelines majority of humanity follows.

The use of force is their way, and thus for mankind to stand still is to be eradicated by them.

The pope's stand on gun control on the law abidding is unfortunately, only supporting these elements and detracting far from the religion that he was supposed to be teaching.


So - Jesus supports the 2nd Amendment?



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:55 AM
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What would Jesus say?

Now I am a pacifist, and all about the teaching of Christ that include love, forgiveness and giving.

WWJD

According to the Bible Christ return will be the most violent event in the history of mankind, angels and all.

Angels are not passivise BTW.

Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said: "With such violence the great city of Babylon will be thrown down, never to be found again.

Most of us know the story.

edit on 113131p://bSunday2013 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)
edit on 113131p://bSunday2013 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)
edit on 113131p://bSunday2013 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by UmbraSumus

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz


the same Jesus that hung out with armed apostles who chop off Roman ears......

That Jesus?



Didn`t Jesus rebuke Paul for chopping off that ear ?


Actually I think that was Peter. Then Jesus healed the soldier.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by netwarrior
 



Well said, man. All of you that are saying that Jesus would be in favor of banning guns, I suggest you pick up a bible and go back and read. Pacifists don't tell their followers to sell their cloak and buy swords. Pacifists don't get all WWE inside the temples when they see how much of a circus Sabbath had become.


The Prince of Peace is a misnomer?

Jesus was ferocious? He encouraged armament?

Good to know - it explains so much...

_________________________________________________

This isn't how I understand it, and I actually mean no disrespect

I think I've made my point as well as I can make it - or not

Peace out kids



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by DaTroof
OK, so you're in the middle of a shopping mall with a knife. How many people can you kill? Same shopping mall, this time with an AR-15 and multiple magazines. How many people can you kill?

OK, now you can stop using the "X can kill, ban X" fallacy.

I'm not a fan of the Vatican, but at least they are right on this one.


OK, so you're in the middle of your private home and a foul human being forces their entry into your home and aims to bring bodily harm to you and yours. How accurate are you with that kitchen knife nearby in both swinging and deflecting the foul human beings bullets as they discharge aimed in your direction?

Same private home, this time with an AR-15 and multiple magazines, how many bullets can you get discharged at the foul human being or possibly a group of foul human beings while your family falls back and seeks shelter or possibly even calls the local law enforcement?

The vatican surely did not get it right and needs to analyze just what our second amendment protects with an emphasis on SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by blupblup
You can make it about Two countries if you like...

I'm not 'making it' about anything ... I"m telling it like it is.

you have an agenda and have a very warped, nasty and twisted view of the world....

Oh blah blah blah ...


you can't handle that the Pope is speaking out against something that you agree with so instead of talking about what it is... a RELIGIOUS issue, you're dishonestly making it about a Country issue.

You can't handle the fact that it really is another country that is pushing it's agenda onto ours so you sugar coat it because you happen to agree with what that other country is trying to push.

Completely dishonest and pathetic.

Right back atchya.


You keep saying Euro-centric like it means something..... The Pope IS European, the Vatican IS in EUROPE.

.. and yet you keep claiming this is a religious issue. The Catholic church is supposed to be UNIVERSAL and not eurocentric. The fact that the Vatican is constantly pushing it's eurocentric anti-American agenda is more proof that this is a political issue and not a religious one.


Sheesh...

Again .. right back atchya.


And ANYONE who calls for less killings, less guns and less "Machine guns" whether in their own country, another country, for religious reasons or just humane reasons, is a good person who wants people to not get shot.

Epic fail. If those people really cared about others, they wouldn't be trying to take away the self protection of law abiding citizens. Those trying to take guns away from the law abiding will leave guns with the criminals and just cause more innocent deaths .. not less. But the truth be damned .. those people just want to push their far left agenda ... :shk:


edit on 1/20/2013 by FlyersFan because: fixed quote
edit on 1/20/2013 by FlyersFan because: fixed sentence



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by KingIcarus
I have to say, mate, it's a bit rich being outraged about another country having - god forbid - something to say about American politics. America is quite literally fighting two wars to influence the politics of other countries as we speak.

.... and there you go. The far left in this country, and others around the world, get ticked off about America sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong (like in Libya for example) ... but those same far lefters here who are screaming how evil America is are just fine with the Vatican sticking it's nose in where it doesn't belong. The reason .. because they agree with the agenda this time. It's hypocritical.


Also, you seem very keen on the word 'eurocentric' but it has nothing at all to do with this discussion.

It has everything to do with the discussion. People who claim this is a religious issue are dead wrong. The Catholic Church is supposed to be UNIVERSAL and SALVATION orientated. Instead, what they are doing is EUROCENTRIC and trying to make America to be politically like Europe. This isn't the first time they have done this, and I'm sure it won't be the last. The Vatican, being eurocentric, is more proof that it's pushing a political agenda and not just trying to be good christians (or whatever).


For me personally, the whole Vatican thing is a shady organisation motivated by religious supremacy, as such I don't give a fig what it has to say about anything - so why should you?

There ya' go ... so shouldn't citizens of a country be concerned when a massive shady organisation, that runs an entire country, tries to influence our laws? I'd say that's a big YES!



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
There ya' go ... so shouldn't citizens of a country be concerned when a massive shady organisation, that runs an entire country, tries to influence our laws? I'd say that's a big YES!


Do you know how many countries in the world think the EXACT same thing about the US government?



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Do you know how many countries in the world think the EXACT same thing about the US government?

Exactly one of my points. A whole lotta people here get all uptight when America goes into places like Libya (which we had no business going into) ... but now those are saying that the country of The Vatican is just fine for trying to push it's agenda on us. They say it because they agree with what the Vatican is saying.

If the Vatican had come out and said 'Americans you can't have birth control anywhere' .. those same people defending the Vatican for trying to disarm law abiding Americans would be having a fit (and rightfully so).

Hypocrisy.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Hmmm... I think you have quite a distorted view of Europe.

Anyhow, you don't have to be far left to have concerns over America's involvement in certain conflicts. Not thinking a war is worth the cost isn't evidence of any political leaning - only that, on balance, the risk and reward don't match up. In Britain the general feel is that Iraq and Afghanistan have cost too many lives and too much money to achieve relatively little that makes us or local people safer of happier. This isn't a left/right wing issue.

As for shady organisations, I'm referring more to the Vaticans appararnt pursuit of wealth generation which is contrary to their apparant aims. This said, is that any more shady than the government of another country using UK airports to secretly transport 'people of interest' to a legal black hole in Cuba or black sites in Eastern Europe without informing or receiving permission from your supposed ally? I'd say holding people indefinitely without charge or legal advice is the definition of shady.

Anyhow, America is not evil. No-one thinks that. However, it is a country with a track record of manipulating the agenda of other countries, whether or not invited to do so. As such, I don't think you can complain too much when someone else has something to say about you.

In any event, the Vatican statement on this issue was probably prompted by a comment request - almost certainly coming from an American news source.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


That begs a question then. How can anyone get upset over this? If a country has "said" something about another country how can one from THAT country get bent out of shape when their country doesn't "say", they spend billions of dollars to interfere in other countries?

edit on 20-1-2013 by intrepid because: Syntax.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by KingIcarus
Hmmm... I think you have quite a distorted view of Europe.

I think I've got a pretty good handle on what the Vatican is.

it is a country with a track record of manipulating the agenda of other countries, whether or not invited to do so.

Yep. And that's what the Vatican is trying to do.

As such, I don't think you can complain too much when someone else has something to say about you.

I think I can complain about both. America has no business in Libya. America has no business in Syria (and neither does Russia). America has no business in Somalia (and neither does China). The Vatican has no business trying to take away 2nd Amendment rights of American citizens. There is plenty of 'no business' comments to spread around. The Vatican deserves the hit ..



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
How can anyone get upset over this?

Really? It's a 2nd Amendment Rights issue. It's none of the Vaticans business.

If a country has "said" something about another country how can one from THAT country get bent out of shape when their country doesn't "say", they spend billions of dollars to interfere in that country?

Oh lordie .. I couldn't follow .. my head got all wonky .. you'll have to reword it.

ETA .. Flyers vs Sabers .. gotta go watch .. back later.

edit on 1/20/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)





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