Vatican Sides with Obama on Gun Control

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posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by DaTroof
OK, so you're in the middle of a shopping mall with a knife. How many people can you kill? Same shopping mall, this time with an AR-15 and multiple magazines. How many people can you kill?

OK, now you can stop using the "X can kill, ban X" fallacy.

I'm not a fan of the Vatican, but at least they are right on this one.


Most loony tunes anti-gun lobbyists STUPIDILY uses such arguments and foolishly thinks others are as infantile and feeble minded simpletons as the anti-gun bufoons.

Look at what you wrote. What was the intention? TO KILL, as you had admitted to it.

Now, does an ordinary law abidding citizen think of such things, let alone enact it out in real? The answer is NO. Only 2 kinds will do so - the insane or the criminal.

If you are insane - how does one stop you? There is no way in today's progress, or rather, the lack of progress in mental health issues due to research, funding, costs, treatment.

Will not having a gun stop you from your horrifying intentions? No. Simply because you are hell bent on mass killing and will plan in advance to bring about mass slaughter using OTHER basic means - fire, poison, gas, water flooding, fertilizer bombs, IED, etc.

If you are a criminal hell bent on mass destruction, will you comply with gun laws or disregard them? You are a criminal, for pete's sake, who doesn't care a wit about laws. Gun laws will not stop you from geting a gun, even if the entire nation has ban such weapons.

Thus, your example about guns or knife is moot if not senseless and stupid.

The POINT of it all, is NOT the tool, BUT the PERSON using that tool. IT is the PERSON, that laws must be made to deal with , to either treat them, heal them, or if prove impossibe, at least put them away at a humane location but safely away from humans.

It is sad to see that the Pope is none the wiser about crimes. Sadly, he, just another flawed mortal, must be out of touch with realities, by blaming guns for violence and justification for ban, when weapons can be found anywhere, stolen from military bases/plants, etc or even crafted from home.

Even a stick can kill. It is not the stick that we must deal with, BUT the Killing done by the operator. What more can I say about the mortal who seeks to lead his denomination?




posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 08:16 AM
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reply to post by redrose123
 

I know my history. Pope Benedict is eurocentric. His cardinals are eurocentric. The COUNTRY of the Vatican is eurocentric. Benedict was just a youth when Hitler ran his country and I know it's not his fault that he was a Hitler Youth ... but he seems either to have forgotten his history about facist countries disarming the law abiding citizens OR he agrees with disarming law abiding Americans because he's eurocentric and/or NWO supportive.

This isn't the first time the country of the Vatican has spoke out in favor of policies that would be damaging to the USA.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 08:18 AM
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Guns aren't plants that can keep regrowing. There's a finite amount of them and machinery necessary for production. If DVDs were to become illegal, there would be a transitional period, but eventually there would be no DVDs. We can eliminate guns. It may take generations, but we have to start now before everyone has their own death ray.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by DaTroof
The Guns aren't plants that can keep regrowing. There's a finite amount of them and machinery necessary for production. If DVDs were to become illegal, there would be a transitional period, but eventually there would be no DVDs. We can eliminate guns. It may take generations, but we have to start now before everyone has their own death ray.


'Guns aren't plants that can keep regrowing'. But sticks and stones are forever. Ban them too shall we?

'We can elimninate guns.' Sure. Why not eliminate the lust for killing first? Is the Pope admitting his failure to wipe out this lust from humanity, and thinks eliminating guns will solve the problem? May he think again.

Technology is not all 'death rays'. Technology had helped mankind progress and evolved, and uplifted much of humanity and greater awareness of the divine plan.

Only the few would seek to stop education and progress, such as the Taliban. May the pope not walk down this slippery slope, either intentionally or ignorantly.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 08:35 AM
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The credibility of those from the Vatican is laughable at best. Who really can take anything from them seriously?

They at the Vatican surely fear guns in the hands of the young boys that they prey upon. They enjoy having the upper hand and then covering it all up. They love defenseless young boys, so naturally they love gun-control.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 08:40 AM
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reply to post by ResistTreason
 

Like I said, the eurocentric country of The Vatican should clean up it's own mess instead of trying to interject itself into how the USA is running itself. The Vatican is either being eurocentric and not working in America's best interests OR it's working hand in hand with the NWO disarming of law abiding American citizens.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


Usually, the Holy See and I are pretty much on the same page. And I can see how they could decry violence. As would any sane person.

But I'm not willing to give up any of my freedoms just yet. So on this topic, the Padre and I are going to respectfully disagree.


What would Jesus say?

Would you respectfully disagree with him too?
edit on 1/20/2013 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 08:52 AM
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ENOUGH!!!!



The trolling and name-calling will CEASE NOW!!!

There will be consequences for further attempts at bickering and off topic derailments!

We expect civility and decorum within all topics - Please Review This Link.

You are responsible for your own posts.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
What would Jesus say?


My guess ...

He'd say to focus on the reason behind the crimes that happen with guns ... the reason is MENTAL HEALTH .. not the gun itself. Help those with mental health issues .. not take away a persons' right to self defense from those who are mentally ill or violent.

Jesus said to turn the other cheek when slapped. He didn't say go out and make yourself a sitting duck target for those who are mentally ill so they can kill you.

Proverbs 25:26 Like a muddied spring or a polluted fountain is a righteous man who gives way before the wicked.

Luke 22:36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

Exodus 22:2-3
If a thief is found breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguilt for him,

Matthew 10:34
“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword

So I'm thinking Jesus would have said to let a face slap go ... but protect yourself if need be.
Just my guess of course ....



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Talk about the corrupt defending the corrupt.

The vatican endorsing something that doesn't concern them, is probably a negative for the crooks in DC anyway.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:13 AM
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edit on 20/1/13 by blupblup because: (no reason given)



My mistake, I can't read, clearly.

edit on 20/1/13 by blupblup because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


then you know its retarded......if THEY agree, we should not.....



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by beezzer
 


Usually, the Holy See and I are pretty much on the same page. And I can see how they could decry violence. As would any sane person.

But I'm not willing to give up any of my freedoms just yet. So on this topic, the Padre and I are going to respectfully disagree.


What would Jesus say?

Would you respectfully disagree with him too?
edit on 1/20/2013 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)


This is what Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:

In the last days

the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established
as the highest of the mountains;
it will be exalted above the hills,
and all nations will stream to it.

Many peoples will come and say,

“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
to the temple of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.”
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
He will judge between the nations
and will settle disputes for many peoples.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war anymore.

The problem is we don't live in the Utopia that is supposed to come with the advent of the coming of Christ,

We live in a world with corruption at every level.

Do you trust your government?



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by MysterX
The vatican endorsing something that doesn't concern them, is ....

... is something they tend to do alot! The COUNTRY of the Vatican .. pushing it's interests around the world. Using religious guilt as it's carrot and stick. People around the world get uptight when America tries to push it's interests onto other countries, but for some reason people are giving a 'pass' to Pope Benedict and the COUNTRY of The Vatican when it sticks it's nose into our business. This isn't the first time it's done this and I'm sure it won't be the last.

Catholic Americans have a right to their religion, of course. Catholic school and hospital outreaches have a right to be 'Catholic' .. as do Baptist and Jewish and Hindu and _____ (fill in the blank) outreaches. This isn't about a persons' religion.

The Country of the Vatican, and the ex-Hitler Youth Pope Benedict, are attempting to interfer with the Constitutional rights of all Americans. They obviously have an agenda. Not a 'love your neighbor' agenda. Either they are all rainbows and unicorns fluff heads who think that disarming law abiding citizens will somehow help the USA .. or they have a NWO agenda of disarming Americans to weaken them. IMHO



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I imagine many see it as you do - it's interesting how we can do away with the larger portion of his message and focus on the bits that serve our needs

So, do you believe the Prince of Peace would be carrying?

Switchblade maybe?

Slingshot?

What would Jesus say Flyers - if you could actually ask him?

I realize this is just me asking your opinion - you can't actually know what Jesus would have said

But - do you think he would support the NRA? Would he have the same views on the 2nd Amendment?

What did Jesus say about slavery?

Sometimes it appears to me that the laws of men go looking for permission slips that never existed

The result is a lot of grasping for moral straws

Just my opinion of course
edit on 1/20/2013 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:30 AM
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Perhaps this is a subject for another thread ....
But I'll answer it so we can move on ....


Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
So, do you believe the Prince of Peace would be carrying?

When He returns, He won't need to 'be carrying'. He has all power within Him.
No need for guns or whatever. He's God Incarnate. And He will come in full power and glory.
Not so with us .. we don't have that kind of power .. thus we need self protection (guns).

I realize this is just me asking your opinion - you can't actually know what Jesus would have said

We have no way of knowing. It's speculation.

Back to the politics of the country of the Vatican wanting to disarm law abiding American citizens ...



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 



The problem is we don't live in the Utopia that is supposed to come with the advent of the coming of Christ,


And who's fault is that? Do you believe the 2nd Amendment was written by Jesus or men?

You want to rationalize and play shell games with the Lord - that's up to you I guess

I'm not a Christian Stormdancer - but it's not as if I don't understand and value much of the message

I am, however, a pacifist


We live in a world with corruption at every level.

Do you trust your government?


I don't trust anyone that tries to manipulate and control an entire nation with their personal belief system - especially when they can't be true to their own beliefs - or answer a simple question directly

What would Jesus do Stormdancer?



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:37 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



Back to the politics of the country of the Vatican wanting to disarm law abiding American citizens ...


way to evade a question Flyers

:-)

thank you for your time



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
What would Jesus do Stormdancer?

Like I said .. Jesus doesn't need a gun to protect Himself. WE DO.

Taking guns away from law abiding citizens won't suddenly turn America into a land of unicorns and rainbows. It'll just make a lot of innocent Americans needlessly die and it will embolden the criminals.

The Vatican isn't interested in What Would Jesus Do.
It has it's own corrupt agenda .. maybe even it's own NWO agenda.



posted on Jan, 20 2013 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 

I didn't evade anything. I'm being VERY careful to stay on topic - and the topic is the Country of the Vatican siding with Obama on Gun Control. This isn't the religious debate forum. Speculating on what Jesus would do is impossible and maybe even off topic.





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