Feminism & The Downfall Of The Traditional Family

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by Ireminisce
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

Perhaps the modern women doesnt want to stay at home and raise a family for you?

If a woman doesn't want to raise children, then this thread doesn't even apply to her. Don't have children. Simple as that.

How do you get that? Feminism is about All women, not just the ones that want children

This thread is titled "Feminism and the Downfall of the Traditional Family", so if a woman doesn't want children this thread doesn't apply. This thread isn't about feminism in general, it's specifically dealing with how it has affected families.

I wish to leave some words of encouragement to any woman here who feels enraged, disgusted, frustrated, and compelled to fight after reading this thread:

I've found it impossible to use words to reach individuals who only trusts in the intellect. Words are only tools to an end for them and they will twist your words to fit that end. Instead, realize that you're power comes from the ability to abide, to reflect, to look within instead of blaming others, and to feel.

Men, as such, will never truly understand what it is to be a woman because they will never be one. It is as simple as that. No amount of arguing will ever put their minds in a woman's body. They will never feel the vulnerability, they will never feel the objectification, they will never fear the threat of rape, they will never understand what it is to birth a child, they will never feel that connection to their children, they will never feel the pain or the helplessness that is felt when you are in a society that lets someone else have greater power over your body than you.

I am a woman, but more than that, I am a human being. And among the rampant sexism that still exists in this world, I will prevail as a human being, despite the definitions and expectations of the un-evolved.

reply to post by Ireminisce

This thread is titled "Feminism and the Downfall of the Traditional Family", so if a woman doesn't want children this thread doesn't apply. This thread isn't about feminism in general, it's specifically dealing with how it has affected families.

That's a vacuous, elitist and exclusionist attitude if ever I read one..,of course this thread relates to everyone. Mothers, wives, un married partners, single women with/out children and..... ta dah....to men. Even if a woman is not presently a mother (or never plans to be) we can safely say that she has had a mother of her own at some time or another and is perfectly entitled to a point of view on this topic.

Originally posted by InTheLight

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by Ireminisce
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

Perhaps the modern women doesnt want to stay at home and raise a family for you?

If a woman doesn't want to raise children, then this thread doesn't even apply to her. Don't have children. Simple as that.

How do you get that? Feminism is about All women, not just the ones that want children

I wonder if Ireminisce's husband would get her a beer?

edit on 19-1-2013 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)

I wonder if drinking a beer would detract from her delicate feminine qualities that are oh-so important?

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
The very name feminism excludes men. It implies that masculinity is the enemy, a vile form of discrimination akin to discrimination of women. This mentality, found only in the basest of creatures, sees 50% of the human population of earth, whoever is not of the same gender them, as somehow lesser.

Perception is a very unique thing. Masculinity is allowed yet feminism is perceived as a direct direct attack on the opposite gender? haha, strange.

No gender is better or lesser, only different. Feminists practice gender bigotry, a huge double-standard. Those pushing for equality of rights, not equality of gender, should not align itself with such madness.
Patriarchy is oligarchy. It isn't a war against women or men, it is a war on the individual.

Feminism from the very beginning is about equality and anyone who has actually bothered to do their research would be well informed of that fact.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc

Please do some research on the "Cave-man" times, There is plenty of evidence to suggest there was no pre-set gender roles, women took part in hunting and collecting food, duties were evenly shared and not based on sex. People back then worked as a unit - You did what you were good at for the good of the tribe. Need more evidence? There are still tribes today that do not operate according to "gender roles" and they've gotten by just fine.

First of all I didn't bring up cavemen, that was someone else that I was replying to.
And yes, women took part in many different roles, but the basic idea was to help strengthen the family. That's where I think a lot of people are losing me. A wife should do what she can no matter what it is to support her husband.
The males in these tribes you're talking about also had the added pressure of protecting the females. The survival of the females and children is what ensured that their tribe would not become extinct. That's why males have a natural instinct to protect. It's also why males are physically stronger.
Females have a natural instinct to nurture. That's why females are the only ones that can give birth and nurse infants. We were biologically designed to be nurturers.

If men and women are supposed to do the exact same things then why are we designed so differently, not only physically but emotionally as well?

But obviously for many people it was broken? That's why people sought divorce? That's why parents advised their kids to not settle down to early in life? Perhaps the "family structure" is idea for around 15 years and naturally begins to break down? Just seems obvious its not perfect to me.

You're right it's not perfect, but what is? If you ask me people seek divorce for a lot of the wrong reasons. You can't expect your marriage to be fairy tale perfect and if that's what you want, then you shouldn't get married. When you realize that your unrealistic view of marriage is unobtainable the divorce is only going to negatively affect your children.

Today, people get divorced before even trying to find the problem and address it.

I realize that there are circumstances where divorce is extremely necessary. In abusive marriages I think most sane people agree that a divorce would actually be better for the kids.

About the drug use and other problems, your guess is as good as mine. We have our own opinions on that and I think they both make since.

reply to post by christina-66


You're right about that. I'm just saying it doesn't really have anything to do with how she chooses live her life if she doesn't plan on having a family.

Originally posted by Ireminisce

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by Ireminisce
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

Perhaps the modern women doesnt want to stay at home and raise a family for you?

If a woman doesn't want to raise children, then this thread doesn't even apply to her. Don't have children. Simple as that.

How do you get that? Feminism is about All women, not just the ones that want children

This thread is titled "Feminism and the Downfall of the Traditional Family", so if a woman doesn't want children this thread doesn't apply. This thread isn't about feminism in general, it's specifically dealing with how it has affected families.

edit on 19-1-2013 by Ireminisce because: (no reason given)

Okay, so i stated that the perhaps the modern woman doesnt want to stay at home and raise a family for you and suddenly, instead of countering my argument you're flatly stating that this thread isnt for women seeking a role in society outside of the family instead of actually trying to challenge my answer constructively?

I didnt realise this was a "lets all agree with each other" thread, my bad

reply to post by SearchLightsInc

Perception is a very unique thing. Masculinity is allowed yet feminism is perceived as a direct direct attack on the opposite gender? haha, strange.

The female version of masculinity would be femininity, not feminism.

The male version of feminism would be masculinism, which doesn't even exist. In fact when I typed it just now it was underlined by a red squiggly line to let me know it's not word.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


In this thread we're talking about how it affects traditional families that do have children, so there really wasn't an argument there to begin with. You just brought up a totally different subject.

Where the hell were all these feminists 20,000 years ago when we were all stuck in caves? Oh that's right they were begging the men to go out and hunt/gather for them. Who do you think got us out of those caves? Would we have made it this far if women made the decisions?

reply to post by LipstickMystic





Interesting Post


coming from one who has seen first hand malfunction within a relationship between a man

and a woman. The unfair distribution (traditional and within the law) of power (for the want of

a better word) within the relationship and not seen as an 'outsider'

Your views belie the rosy view held by so many of family life as was in the past and held

up as a shinning example now....The 'macho' provider and the willing? down trodden recipient

grateful for anything she be allowed.


Reminds me of the saying "Distance lends enchantment"

Feminism from the very beginning is about equality and anyone who has actually bothered to do their research would be well informed of that fact.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


No one is saying it wasn't about equality. At least I'm not. I realize that feminism was necessary because many women before were deprived of even their basic human rights. What I am saying is that it's changed. We do have equal rights now, so what are modern feminists fighting for?

Originally posted by Ireminisce

First of all I didn't bring up cavemen, that was someone else that I was replying to.

Yes, but you replied and advocated that pre-historic human had it all set up right using "gender roles" Which they didnt. I thought you should know.

And yes, women took part in many different roles, but the basic idea was to help strengthen the family.

Tribe* Not just your blooded family.

That's where I think a lot of people are losing me. A wife should do what she can no matter what it is to support her husband.

No, THIS is where im losing you. If you want to "serve" your husband then go for it, its your life you do as you please. But i respectfully disagree with your way of thinking. I could not live under the thumb of someone who made decisions about my life regardless of what i wanted/needed.

The males in these tribes you're talking about also had the added pressure of protecting the females.

Human's learn fear that usually stops people from getting themselves into sticky situations. Women are perfectly capable of being strong and fending for themselves, perhaps you under-rate your average female's physical strength?

The survival of the females and children is what ensured that their tribe would not become extinct.

And to assume the safety of all members of the tribe was only down to the men would be an ignorant statement to say the least.

That's why males have a natural instinct to protect.

So women have to LEARN the instinct to protect then?

It's also why males are physically stronger.

Nope. The reason why women are not as strong as men is because our reproductive organs demand we carry more fat than muscle. Men don't reproduce, therefore they don't have to store excessive fat in case they get knocked up. Nothing to do with "protection"

Females have a natural instinct to nurture.

And men dont?

That's why females are the only ones that can give birth and nurse infants.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigghhttt. Explain why post-natal depression exists then? Because surely if it was given that ALL women are nurturer's it wouldnt be a problem for some women?

We were biologically designed to be nurturers.

No, we are biologically designed to be human beings and that is far greater and more complex than our reproductive organs that are only a part of our biological design.

If men and women are supposed to do the exact same things then why are we designed so differently, not only physically but emotionally as well?

If men and women are only suppose to act in the way that you state (ie men protect and hunt, women nurture) then why is it we have advanced over millions of years while other members of the animal kingdom have not?

Perhaps for evolution isnt based on how well each sex compliments the other.

You're right it's not perfect, but what is? If you ask me people seek divorce for a lot of the wrong reasons.

But why is so wrong that someone seeks a divorce because they are unhappy in their marriage? It doesnt effect you and your choice?

You can't expect your marriage to be fairy tale perfect and if that's what you want, then you shouldn't get married.

And you cant realistically expect to get married and still feel just as in love with someone 25 years later. If you are, well that's great, if not, no hard feelings? Go your separate ways and enjoy your life.

When you realize that your unrealistic view of marriage is unobtainable the divorce is only going to negatively affect your children.

My parents separation and divorce was the best thing that happened in my childhood. I only wish it could have happened sooner tbh.

Today, people get divorced before even trying to find the problem and address it.

Some people cannot be reasoned with, lets not kid ourselves.

I realize that there are circumstances where divorce is extremely necessary. In abusive marriages I think most sane people agree that a divorce would actually be better for the kids.

When you say abusive, do you only mean in the physical sense? Because some partners are emotionally abusive and that is even more destructive than being slapped around.

About the drug use and other problems, your guess is as good as mine. We have our own opinions on that and I think they both make since.

I still respectfully disagree with your opinion that those increase's are due to a breakdown in families. Im just not convinced its as clear cut as that.

Originally posted by Ireminisce
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

In this thread we're talking about how it affects traditional families that do have children, so there really wasn't an argument there to begin with. You just brought up a totally different subject.

I could easily argue that patriarchal societies have in general acted against the well-being of families over recorded history. Would you like you like to discuss this point of view?

reply to post by soulwaxer

Yes thats what I heard too, that the feminist movement was about to get woman to feel raising children and supporting their family was somehow unequal to paying taxes and" being a man". Working and paying taxes when the men were sent to war

To poster of thread :We have a lot of 3rd gen matriarchal woman, most have been left without the father role. The family was broken down, try to have some understanding of what happens when a woman has to play both roles.
Marriage its not a state institution. The people are left without the ability to even define marriage now( another fake equality movement ) these are so divisive. Look at how some of the people posting here are identifying with "man" or "woman" .
No adult person should think its the job of another human being to look after him/her . No human being should walk away from their duty to their family (in either role). The loving selfless acts, or service to your children and husband/wife are actually positive, yet society through the fem movement disrespects the mother.
Why would anyone want a partner that is totally under their control, thats slavery and I say this to both genders as it goes both ways.

Originally posted by workingforyou
Where the hell were all these feminists 20,000 years ago when we were all stuck in caves? Oh that's right they were begging the men to go out and hunt/gather for them. Who do you think got us out of those caves? Would we have made it this far if women made the decisions?

To save yourself from looking stupid by commenting without actually knowing what you're talking about, i thought you might like to brush up on your pre-historic history

There are always going to be people of both genders who are submissive personalities that want someone else to make all of the tough the decisions and call the shots so that they don't run the risk of having to accept responsibility for possible mistakes or mis-steps. It is easier for them to follow. Submission is a natural and desirable place for them in the social order.

There are always going to be people of both genders who want control of their lives, and want to navigate their own fate in life to extent that they are able. They don't settle for the staus quo, they put themselves out there, take chances, and hope for a positive outcome. If being a "leader" falls into that description, then they become leaders simply because others around them will not take action. Being assertive is a natural and desirable place for them in the social order.

I fall into the second category.

The premise of this thread by the OP is mysogynistic and out of date/touch. ( perhaps not consciously, but in my opinion, it is. )
There is no "traditional" family...it is a concept promoted by the media, governments and religions for social control purposes.
Families of many different types and compositions have always existed.

If you want to live in a Leave It To Beaver World where everything is safe, predictable and unchallenging, more power to you, but please, don't try to project your fantasy standards onto the rest of us.
I prefer to live in a world where men and women are equal, and have the same access to opportunities and resources. We're not there yet, there is a lot of ground yet to be gained in that area ( especially in the Middle East ), but we're getting there.

"Ward, your dinner is ready, would you like me to bring your slippers?" -

Originally posted by Ireminisce

Feminism from the very beginning is about equality and anyone who has actually bothered to do their research would be well informed of that fact.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

No one is saying it wasn't about equality. At least I'm not. I realize that feminism was necessary because many women before were deprived of even their basic human rights. What I am saying is that it's changed. We do have equal rights now, so what are modern feminists fighting for?

With all due respect, I would like to ask a question to help inform me regarding decisions I may make in the future.
Did you take the Blue Pill, or the Red Pill?

reply to post by SearchLightsInc

Perception is a very unique thing. Masculinity is allowed yet feminism is perceived as a direct direct attack on the opposite gender? haha, strange.

That's not what I said. I said discrimination of masculinity is akin to discrimination of women. It's the same thing. I suppose one must take their blinders off to see that. Feminism is the same as Masculinism. It is the exact same as that which they fight against—inequality.