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Feminism & The Downfall Of The Traditional Family

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posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by resoe26
 






posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

That's not what I said. I said discrimination of masculinity is akin to discrimination of women. It's the same thing. I suppose one must take their blinders off to see that.


No i agree with that point fully.


Feminism is the same as Masculinism. It is the exact same as that which they fight against—inequality.



But they're not....

Feminism (grass roots) denotes equal-ism. Masculinism denotes holding authority. Men in general have never had to fight inequality on the same level as women.

Big difference between them.



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by DirtyD
reply to post by resoe26
 






/facepalm.

Such a BS video.



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 





No, THIS is where im losing you. If you want to "serve" your husband then go for it, its your life you do as you please. But i respectfully disagree with your way of thinking. I could not live under the thumb of someone who made decisions about my life regardless of what i wanted/needed.


If you want to look at it in the sense that I'm serving my husband that's fine, but the way I see it is that I do what I can to make his life better and he does what he can to make my life better. He works up to 12 hours a day and sometimes doesn't get to come home for weeks, so I do what I can to ensure he's happy when he's not working. I take pride in that, and feel it's just as important as what he does for me.

I don't live under anyone's thumb as this is the life that I wanted and chose. If that's not what you want, I can respect that.




Human's learn fear that usually stops people from getting themselves into sticky situations. Women are perfectly capable of being strong and fending for themselves, perhaps you under-rate your average female's physical strength? And to assume the safety of all members of the tribe was only down to the men would be an ignorant statement to say the least.


Yes they do, but if our government enacted a draft to defend the country, how many women do you think would be drafted?




So women have to LEARN the instinct to protect then?


Of course not, but we don't have the natural pull to protect men like they do to protect us. That's why every army is for the most part male.




Nope. The reason why women are not as strong as men is because our reproductive organs demand we carry more fat than muscle. Men don't reproduce, therefore they don't have to store excessive fat in case they get knocked up. Nothing to do with "protection"


Your right about that, but no matter the reason for those physical differences they still make men more suited to go and fight for the good of the civilization. That's why men are drafted, and women are not.




Explain why post-natal depression exists then? Because surely if it was given that ALL women are nurturer's it wouldnt be a problem for some women?


Why does any mental disorder exist? We don't live in a perfect world. And yes men can nurture. I never said they couldn't.




If men and women are only suppose to act in the way that you state (ie men protect and hunt, women nurture) then why is it we have advanced over millions of years while other members of the animal kingdom have not?


I never said men are only supposed to protect or that women are only supposed to nurture, but those are the basic instincts for survival. If men and women never did those things we be here today.




But why is so wrong that someone seeks a divorce because they are unhappy in their marriage? It doesnt effect you and your choice?


It does affect the society that I live in. I'm not stopping anyone from divorcing, that's their decision, I just feel like most divorces have more negative than positive effects. There's always the exception.




And you cant realistically expect to get married and still feel just as in love with someone 25 years later. If you are, well that's great, if not, no hard feelings? Go your separate ways and enjoy your life.


I don't expect that. Being in love with someone is different that loving them. People fall in and out of love, but if you chose this person carefully you'll probably always love them. Marriages have ups and downs, and if you're not patient enough to wait for the ups, then marriage probably isn't for you.




My parents separation and divorce was the best thing that happened in my childhood. I only wish it could have happened sooner tbh.


I don't know anything about your family, but like I said there are always exceptions.




I still respectfully disagree with your opinion that those increase's are due to a breakdown in families. Im just not convinced its as clear cut as that.

Drugs...

Drinking...


And the cycle goes on and on...



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 





Feminism (grass roots) denotes equal-ism. Masculinism denotes holding authority.


That is completely ridiculous. Why is the movement not called gender equal-ism?


edit on 19-1-2013 by Ireminisce because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 

No I don't think the feminism movement was about equality. Our society has more inequity than ever.


We are all snowflakes, different and yet we are the same. Anything that doesn't celebrate that truth is negative, such as leading to thinking that we are not equal( causing inferiority complexes which are countered by seeking dominance). Submission and dominance are animal traits.



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by Ireminisce
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 





Feminism (grass roots) denotes equal-ism. Masculinism denotes holding authority.


That is completely ridiculous. Why is the movement not called gender equal-ism?


edit on 19-1-2013 by Ireminisce because: (no reason given)


Perhaps if you actually bothered to read up on feminism you wouldn't be asking me that question?

And i am going to reply to your long post



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by BDBinc
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 

No I don't think the feminism movement was about equality. Our society has more inequity than ever.


We are all snowflakes, different and yet we are the same. Anything that doesn't celebrate that truth is negative, such as leading to thinking that we are not equal( causing inferiority complexes which are countered by seeking dominance). Submission and dominance are animal traits.




I fail to see how the sexes are unequal in modern society, please further explain in detail, giving specific examples of inequality



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by InTheLight

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by Ireminisce
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 





Perhaps the modern women doesnt want to stay at home and raise a family for you?


If a woman doesn't want to raise children, then this thread doesn't even apply to her. Don't have children. Simple as that.



How do you get that? Feminism is about All women, not just the ones that want children


I wonder if Ireminisce's husband would get her a beer?

edit on 19-1-2013 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)


I wonder if drinking a beer would detract from her delicate feminine qualities that are oh-so important?


I'm not even sure what this has to do with anything, but I'll answer anyway. I'd hate for people to think I'm just a no fun having slave.

Yes, he'll get me a beer. Even with out me asking. He likes doing nice things for me, and we like to sit around a fire and have a good time together. As for it detracting from my feminine qualities, I'm not sure about that, but maybe it does. No one's perfect and I'm far from it. I drink Bud light Lime, if that makes any difference. I guess wine in a tiny elegant glass would be more lady like, but I don't like it.

Still trying to figure why my views on this would mean I don't do anything remotely fun or exciting.



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



You don't have to reply to my long post. I replied to yours, but you shouldn't feel obligated. No biggie. Let's agree to disagree.



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by Ireminisce

I wonder if drinking a beer would detract from her delicate feminine qualities that are oh-so important?


I'm not even sure what this has to do with anything, but I'll answer anyway. I'd hate for people to think I'm just a no fun having slave.



No im sure doing the foxtrot is still as fun now as its always been
(Genuine humour here, not trying to belittle you
)


Yes, he'll get me a beer. Even with out me asking. He likes doing nice things for me, and we like to sit around a fire and have a good time together.


Good, nice to see its not all work no play lol


As for it detracting from my feminine qualities, I'm not sure about that, but maybe it does. No one's perfect and I'm far from it. I drink Bud light Lime, if that makes any difference. I guess wine in a tiny elegant glass would be more lady like, but I don't like it.


What you drink shouldnt make a difference to how "feminine or masculine" you are, i was just having a laugh. if it did, we'd all still be drinking Babycham



Still trying to figure why my views on this would mean I don't do anything remotely fun or exciting.


Okay yeah, a little off topic!



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by Ireminisce
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 



You don't have to reply to my long post. I replied to yours, but you shouldn't feel obligated. No biggie. Let's agree to disagree.


Alright probably for the better, its getting late anyhow haha



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


Awesome! Glad to see you have since of humor.
For my own reputation, I do feel compelled to say I've never done the fox trot
and my favorite band is The Red Hot Chili Peppers. Cute joke though, seriously. Anyway, I can respect your views. As I'm sure you can imagine my views are always the minority, even around my own friends, so I'm used to it. You're a great debater and I had fun talking with you.



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


I did not say gender inequity, sorry that was not clear. I mean we want equality, yet our society has some having luxury abundant food and shelter and others not having any food, clean water or shelter, and yet the elitists keep up the exploitation and divisive topics( such as this one).



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by Ireminisce
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


Awesome! Glad to see you have since of humor.
For my own reputation, I do feel compelled to say I've never done the fox trot
and my favorite band is The Red Hot Chili Peppers. Cute joke though, seriously. Anyway, I can respect your views. As I'm sure you can imagine my views are always the minority, even around my own friends, so I'm used to it. You're a great debater and I had fun talking with you.


What you got against the foxtrot? Its served me well


I apologise if anywhere in my replies ive had a poor tone, I have enjoyed debating your views and accept that people want different things out of life & families. Im not a "one size fits all" kinda person


Hope to see you around ATS (Y)



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 04:45 PM
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I apologise if anywhere in my replies ive had a poor tone
reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


If you did I'm sure I did too, so I return the apology. See you around. I promise my views on other topics aren't so extreme. Maybe we'll agree on something some time.




posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 05:03 PM
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I'd like to return to the OP to add my two cents:




You cannot argue with the facts. And the fact is, ever since Feminism was introduced and women have gained "rights" (rights that are an illusion to us all, both men and women) the traditional Family lifestyle has been on a steady decline.



Let me break down this statement if I may. What's on the decline, in your opinion (you didn't cite any actual facts so this is what we call an opinion) is the "traditional Family lifestyle." As other well-informed posters have pointed out already, there is no such thing as a "traditional family lifestyle." My guess is the one you mean is the one that hasn't been around all that long. I hope it's been made clear to you that mating, child rearing, etc. has been a constantly evolving process throughout human history. Do some research on the topic and broaden your horizons beyond the 1950s.

You put "rights" in quotes and call them "an illusion." Which rights are illusion? The ones where women are allowed to own property? Vote? Work outside the home? Have her own money? Become a senator? Stay out after 10:00pm without a male escort? Own a gun? Which of these rights have most threatened your version of the "traditional family lifestyle"? I suppose I could guess, but I try not to put words in people's mouths.




If you notice on the majority of commercials and television, Men are downgraded.


You know what's interesting: if you don't watch broadcast TV you don't see commercials where men are portrayed in a way that offends you. To think even further outside "the box" you could decide to not let media dictate the society you live in. It's been working for me. I don't see these things you talk about so I can't agree with you that they exist. Try turning the television off. It may help your perspective if the fake life you watch on TV is disturbing you.

As for there being a masculinity crisis... I'm around quite a few men on a daily basis and not one of them come off as "less masculine" to me, and they would all probably beat the crap out of you for suggesting they have a masculinity crisis (that masculine enough for you?). Maybe it's where you live? Or are we talking about TV people again instead of real people?

I have no problem with a woman who wants to stay home and raise children and cook and clean for her husband. Even I have been known to get a beer for my husband (though he better not drink my last one!!!) But to say my choice to work outside of the home, to leave my children during the day with a loving provider who is now a part of our extended family, to go head to head with men in the office, to have the means to self finance my own side business, to raise four girls - and to also expect that my husband will lug laundry downstairs, sweep the floor and clean the toilet - is the cause of some kind of moral breakdown... I'm a bit speechless.

We have chosen to go back to the tribe method of family, one where grandparents, and parents and children, and neighbors all help parent, all help each other out. The "leader" changes from week to week or day to day (or sometimes hour to hour) with men and women taking on roles depending on the task at hand. To each his/her skill I say. Leave the genitals out of it.



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 06:57 PM
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So many people have been conditioned to believe so that they will not think for themselves anymore.
Advertising's history is one of degrading depictions of both male and female.
On the feminism movement to create a bigger tax base, remember how many good ideas have been hijacked by the PTB and turned into the opposite, like the love of the 60's was turned into free love promoting promiscuity.
When these guys have control of the minds of the people, and use divisive campaigns to divide us, why do we play into their hands even here.
I am glad the above poster is happy working (and paying someone to look after her four children), but thats not a tribal model isn't that the corporate model.



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by BDBinc
 

I don't understand why you'd call it a corporate model? Until last May I stayed home for two years. I still sent my daughter to her childcare provider most days because I still "worked" just not in an office.



posted on Jan, 19 2013 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by otherpotato
 

I was told paying some to look after your children( or sending them to daycare) was a corporate model.
Having family,friends or relatives help partake and to feel that raising children is the whole village's responsibility is a tribal model.
Please understand I did not say how you should raise your children yourself or criticize you in anyway, I just said it's a corporate model of childcare (so is daycare and putting babies into it at 6 weeks) and not tribal .
I do think the tribal love and connection to the whole community was better though.




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