Wow, someone has the guts to say it

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
So does this have anything to do with socioeconomic conditions or are you implying minorities are generally more violent than the white immigrant population. Maybe the indigenous population may have an opinion on that.

Ummm.....Everyone born here is indigenous to the country, just not aboriginal. Unless the statistics are graphed for socioeconomics there's really no way to tell. The really telling statistic isn't the one for prison populations but rather the one for homocides by firearm. Now, wether there are socioeconomic factors involved it would be interesting to know. I think that gang membership would be the biggest factor in any equation. It certainly would be a preferable situation if there were better alternatives, but that would void the experiment. There are externally induced debilitating factors that become part of the cultural norm that find expression in violent or agressive behavior. You can see the effects of this in both the Aboriginal and African American cultures. These demographics have unfortunatly been on the recieving end of some rather barbaric cultural uprooting and inhumane social experimentation.

YouSir

Originally posted by Anundeniabletruth
Anyone who is a racist should be permanently imprisoned. ANYONE! That means if you're white and you dislike another people because of their race then you get a free Go Directly To Jail card, if you're black and you hate people of another skin color then you just qualified for that very same card, even if you fall into a category such as "other", the same rules apply! That would solve one of our problems anyway.

edit on 17-1-2013 by Anundeniabletruth because: (no reason given)

Were Gonna need a LOT more Prisons then..............

Who's gonna run them?

Can someone pull up the stats of low income peoples of all races vs the gun crimes they commit? Then maybe we could compare apples to apples here.

Here's an interesting commentary......took me awhile to find some studies on this, which was interesting in of itself. You would think this would be studied more.

liberationfromthelie.com... m/

reply to post by Superhans


Well Ann Coulter is a racist, we have all known that for a long time.

The murder rate is high among the poor, when you look at any society. Unfortunately, our black population in this country is overwhelmingly poor. Could have something to do with them only having the same rights as whites for about 50 years.

But go ahead, agree with Ann Coulter and show your racism...at least we know you for what you are now.

Refrain from throwing the racist card at me for a moment.

Several situations exist inside of America:

A majority of immigrants come into the US anticipating some sort of easy lifestyle, they hear how great America is and they often bring their families or move in with relatives who have already arrived and are trying to make ends meet. I would venture a guess that most people are unable to make the switch into being productive members of society for whatever reason, their religion, or cultural values make them a bit "out there" when compared to your average American, making employment difficult if not impossible. These people still have basic needs that have to be met and they turn to violence and / or crime to put food on the table and provide for their families / children or themselves.

Odds are they find their way into "alternative" means of bringing in an income and sooner or later have a run in with the law and end up in jail or prison. If you visit a US Embassy on any given day they have a line wrapped around the block with eager applicants who think they will be able to immigrate to the US and forever be set for life. The illusion of the American dream lures all kinds of people from former foreign military officers to your average street vendor with false hopes that they too will move to America and life will be exponentially better.

A majority of immigrants from the 3rd world have 1/10th or less of the level of education that your average American high school student has, they lack a single day of work experience in a useful field and when they arrive in America and find out that it's not what they expected. People have mouths to feed one way or another.

Going to say Education is a major factor, as is the culture and ethnic background. I know some of you will have a problem with this, but honestly. Take a moment and think about it, seriously think about it. When you visit a minority neighborhood, what do you encounter?

Kids that want to be "tough" gangsters dressed in wife beaters and jeans 4 sizes too big with stockings on their heads. Pretty hard to find meaningful employment when you go to a job interview with a stocking on your head. America's "culture" is setup to benefit the white folks and anything that is outside of what they expect or anticipate fails to take hold.

White people refuse to truly accept minorities into their communities, so they end up in their own little splinter group living lifestyles that are vastly different and its no surprise that they have a higher crime rate. I would agree that its a problem with minorities or other races, however. The problem is not their ethnicity but rather the amount of resources allocated to those communities to help integrate and be productive.

Originally posted by twitchy
Ann Coulter is a racist pig, a complete waste of time and oxygen, and little more than an uncoothe talking head who gets paid to piss people off and say things that would have had her tarred and feathered a hundred years ago. I absolutely can't stand her, Rush Limbaugh, or any of the other countless minions of talking heads who are little more than professional propagandists. Goebbels didn't have much on these turds at all, and modern Americans are watching 9 billion hours a week of that crap and we're surprised to find we're marginalized and radical?

lmao!!
We really don't care what your opinion is of people exercising their 1st amendment rights!'So, since you know so much about Ms Coulter and Mr Limbaugh apparently you are one of the "9 billion hours" watching them!
To say she is a waste of time and O2 for exercising her right to free speech makes you the "uncoothe" I mean uncouth one!

It has nothing to do with race; poverty is the root of violent criminal behavior. All races ride slave ships.

Both sides of our political system are blaming our gun problems on the opposite side, just as they do with every other issue. Ann Coulter is quite simply someone who doesn't think before speaking, just like most of the people from False News.

As for the gun problems, our very system for allowing the buying and selling of weaponry is our problem. I could go in with a driver's license and wait twenty minutes to get a rifle without any major background checks or any knowledge of a weapon if I wanted to. My entire argument in this was not to ban any particular kind of weapon, but to enstate a process quite similar to our Law Enforcement's procedures. Educating people about the proper handling and safety using weapons, as well as the weight of Deadly Force and proper usages would be help. Psych . evaluations should also be a must.

However, I'm not surprised with Coulter's words, nor any other Fox News anchorman's vomit on the matter. I've learned that the media will say anything, and it's not worth a grain of salt.


~~ As for the racial issues, it does have a bit of involvement with race. It's not 'Racism' to state that. It's been proven that blacks and African Americans as well as other worse off races turn to gang-life and violence more than others because of the poverty that wrack those particular groups of people. I don't hold many opinions on the matter because far too many people are quick to scream 'RACIST, RACIST, RACIST', when any part of such subjects are brought up.

Let me jump in here with a few thoughts. They my not be the most articulate, PC, or even wanted considering I am not American. However I don't have a stake in any gun control issues and may offer an outside perspective.

OP stated facts. Nothing else. The PC crowd jumps in and immediately calls racism. This is a fine way to bury your head in the sand. Of course the OP may have ulterior racial motives but he neither alludes to them nor makes mention.

FACT; Blacks kill more people by gun. Period. And by the figures, in largely disproportional numbers.

SO...obviously the first step has BEEN identified. Regardless what the ostriches may say.

Now one poster asked the OP for solutions. None were given. That poster seems to have a background in humanities, sociology, or some other flavour of the day liberal arts degree. The intelligence of his posts suggest an articulate nature yet dances around the real issues.

Speaking with nomenclature regarding blah, blah, blah. See. The average person doesn't want an intelligent reply about the socio-economic aspects of this problem. Heck, the majority of these urban youth who need the education of these matters will roll their eyes and it will go right over the head.

We don't have a very high population of blacks in my parts, but of those that reside here, they are very well spoken, good, civil members of the community. BUT.. A majority of the ones I see on American TV, athletes being interviewed, rappers, talk shows, reality TV, etc. I can barely understand what they are saying! Do the black people get taught a different language other than English in the U.S.? This may be a first step. Education!
Literacy does wonders.

If this is a foreign concept, then at least educating black people on the value of family, manly responsibilities, and the role that civilized cultures have two parents. It's difficult enough raising kids with the traditional wife and husband. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to raise proper youth as a single parent. I would guess that truancy, and mischief would be proportionately higher in families with only one parent.



Thus these way-word young men, with no solid role model, would be exposed to greater risk of 'thug' culture.

If you want to get to the bottom of these issues, it's not really rocket science. Men need to man up.

The rest of us have to suffer though marriages for the betterment of society as a whole. This, my freind is key.

Originally posted by Anundeniabletruth
Anyone who is a racist should be permanently imprisoned. ANYONE! That means if you're white and you dislike another people because of their race then you get a free Go Directly To Jail card, if you're black and you hate people of another skin color then you just qualified for that very same card, even if you fall into a category such as "other", the same rules apply! That would solve one of our problems anyway.

edit on 17-1-2013 by Anundeniabletruth because: (no reason given)

Unfortunately, one can recite facts and statistics that are verifiable and still be labeled a racist by those who have a different political ideology. Far too often the word "racist" is bandied about and used as a weapon to silence legitimate arguments, exactly what has happened in this thread.

Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by Superhans

 

Well Ann Coulter is a racist, we have all known that for a long time.

The murder rate is high among the poor, when you look at any society. Unfortunately, our black population in this country is overwhelmingly poor. Could have something to do with them only having the same rights as whites for about 50 years.

But go ahead, agree with Ann Coulter and show your racism...at least we know you for what you are now.

Not really, If you look at gun deaths
en.wikipedia.org...
There are many poor nations with little gun related deaths.
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Raelsatu


I just want to add that it is true blacks commit plenty of murders, thats no great mystery. But if you are honest in your assessment, can you tell me the last time a "black" randomly killed innocent white people in large numbers? As your stats point out. we are killing our own kind off, much to the delight of some folks i'm sure. As a brother who has lived in the hood and worked my butt off to get out of it, I can tell you I fear a white man more. If i see a black dude coming near me with a gun, he's most likely going to rob me (which i had the pleasure 5 times) or he's most likely going to shoot or kill a specific individual. Its not right, but its not Columbine or Sandy Hook either. Most thugs know they will get thrown under the jail or life if they even hurt a white person let alone killed one. I am honest to know the faults of my people but look in the mirror sir. In the end we are being played by the system, with a focus on racism to distract from the real problem which is class-ism. This America, continue to express your opinions. Have a good day.

reply to post by Superhans


Yes, really.

It is only your ignorance that sees race instead of economic status.

Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by Superhans

 

Yes, really.

It is only your ignorance that sees race instead of economic status.

That post I made had nothing to do with race and EVERYTHING to do with economic status, did you really read it? And you want to talk about MY ignorance?

Originally posted by MisterMandlebrot
Those who make the argument that people feel the need to own guns to protect themselves from other races are labelled as ignorant or racist. But around the world one of the greatest factors in violence is ethnic tensions. Do you think that ethnic tensions never happen in America liberals?

I'm a little confused here - what are you actually asking? It sounds like you're asking whether liberals think that there is no ethnic tension in the U.S. While I'm no liberal, that just seems like a completely preposterous question to ask, so I'm assuming maybe I'm reading it wrong. If I'm reading it right, then I'm not sure I understand how it is relevant to the OP. The topic is basically about Ann Coulter's belief that the problem isn't guns, the problem is that people of non-caucasian races are more prone (magically/genetically) to gun violence.

reply to post by dogstar23


Its only beliefs if you don't have statistics to back it up, or if your political ideology does not permit you to objectively look at facts.

Originally posted by Superhans

Originally posted by xedocodex
reply to post by Superhans

 

Well Ann Coulter is a racist, we have all known that for a long time.

The murder rate is high among the poor, when you look at any society. Unfortunately, our black population in this country is overwhelmingly poor. Could have something to do with them only having the same rights as whites for about 50 years.

But go ahead, agree with Ann Coulter and show your racism...at least we know you for what you are now.

Not really, If you look at gun deaths
en.wikipedia.org...
There are many poor nations with little gun related deaths.
en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 17-1-2013 by Superhans because: (no reason given)

The only correlation between anything and gun violence I have ever seen hold true, is that, among industrialized nations, gun violence is directly proportional to the disparity of wealth. In other words, in nations where the spread between lower-middle-upper-elite classes are lower, gun violence is lower. In nations where the disparity is enormous, gun violence is higher. I'm not talking about communist nations, but the difference between a Germany, England, Canada, and U.S., as examples.

Even that, however, isn't "proven" to be the reason, it could be a symptom of other causes itself.

Just because some creep like Coulter makes a blind correlation doesn't make it true. If you drive around the Chicago area and pick up statistics, you could easily make the correlation that potholes cause asthma. Really. The poorer neighborhoods in the city have more pot-holed streets, and also higher rates of asthma. So do potholes cause asthma? Does the presence of Black people cause potholes? If I had a brain the size of Ann Coulters...I guess I'd say yes.

reply to post by dogstar23


Well what are the minority populations of places like Germany, England and Canada?

Originally posted by endangered1
I just want to add that it is true blacks commit plenty of murders, thats no great mystery. But if you are honest in your assessment, can you tell me the last time a "black" randomly killed innocent white people in large numbers?

Why does it matter whether blacks killed white people in particular? The point we were discussing is across the board gun violence; most of which is intraracial. African Americans have done mass shootings as well; the latest from 2010. The deadliest mass shooting in U.S history was done by a Korean immigrant (33 fatalities). I'm not defending crimes committed by white people, nor am I focusing on blacks. On the global scale hundreds of millions of people have been killed by all different races. So there's not really any point to comparing race in that regard.

As your stats point out. we are killing our own kind off, much to the delight of some folks i'm sure. As a brother who has lived in the hood and worked my butt off to get out of it, I can tell you I fear a white man more. If i see a black dude coming near me with a gun, he's most likely going to rob me (which i had the pleasure 5 times) or he's most likely going to shoot or kill a specific individual. Its not right, but its not Columbine or Sandy Hook either.

I suppose this is mostly perceptual. Why would you fear a white person more if the majority of gun homicides are intraracial? I.e 80-88 percent of white homicides are committed against white people. For black people it's approximately 90 percent. There have been 62 mass shootings in the U.S, in the past 30 years; of that, 513 people have died. That's 513 deaths in the span of 30 years. In comparison, there's an average of 9000 gun homicides per year, 5130 of them committed by blacks, 90 percent of which are against each-other.

So what are the chances of you being killed in a mass shooting versus a regular homicide? There's a huge gap there. It's true that the majority of recent U.S mass shootings were done by whites, although I'd also like to note that most of them were mentally ill.

I am honest to know the faults of my people but look in the mirror sir. In the end we are being played by the system, with a focus on racism to distract from the real problem which is class-ism. This America, continue to express your opinions. Have a good day.

Look in the mirror? I somewhat understand your sentiment, but I'm not the one to be telling that. I'm fully aware of many of the problems that make escaping that situation very difficult. In a post of mine on this thread I specifically mentioned that it's worse to ignore the facts than to point them out. Instead, offer solutions. A fixed education system, ending the war on drugs, more opportunities for those in the ghetto, spreading knowledge & truth, etc. Unfortunately there are racist out there, who have the wrong intentions, and only make the problem worse. We have to overcome bigotry with compassion, empathy, facts & reason.

As a long time lurker I finally bite the bullet and registered simply to reply in this thread.

A lot of the arguments made in this thread are that African Americans are violent simply because they are black and nothing other than that plays a role and I must say I am disgusted by that.. As a african AMERICAN male it saddens me that I am looked at as being violent and dangerous simply because of my skin color.

Let's address the prison numbers first. Yes it is FACT that a large portion of inmates are black, but that is simply a number of how many and not saying what for. In order for that statistic to be used in this debate/discussion that statistic has to be broken down to the crime. Not every black male/female in jail is there for violent crimes, some are there for drugs, tickets, and other various charges.

I have never been to jail or committed any violent crimes and the same goes for many of my African American friends and family. I also have a degree in computer information technology and am about to get married in a few months (ps I do NOT have any kids).

I personally feel that the argument based on education hits the nail on the head on what is going on with our society and there are also other things that play a role on how one reacts to "their" world. A child brought up poor with subpar education watching family and other adults go no where and do nothing is going to be a product of that environment.

Education and finacial standing is not the sole blame though. Poor families are taught that they will get "free money and health care" from out government and quite frankly feel that is enough for them.

I personally feel that the biggest factors that play a role in where African Americans stand right now are education, how easy it is for people to get hand outs from our government (such as unemployment and medical) and simply put a lack of positive role models.

I apologize if my response was hard to read as I know it's probably all over the place. It is 1:30am and I've been going since 5am so please excuse "the mess" lol.

reply to post by pavil


Your provided link backs up what I have been trying to say throughout this thread; that it is not a race issues as much as it is a social class issue. You see, as stated in that source, many people think of "poor whites" as lower income white people living in a mix of middle income and lower income neighborhood BUT if you consider those who are living on less than $17,000 a year you will see that things do start to change. I live in a fairly cheap state as far as cost of living is concerned and it would be literally impossible for someone to live in a 2+ bedroom place and have a used vehicle and eat on under $17,000 a year, those people would be considered "poor" and the people living in their neighborhood are much more likely to commit crimes.